Military History, Michael Collins and my granddad. Can anyone help? Pics Added! :)

DeVore

Hi there!

My grandfather had the honour of being Michael Collins aide de comp right up to a few months before he was shot. (History buffs might be interested to know that he was transferred to head up the largest garrison in Cork I believe, Collins visited him the night before he was killed and the next morning my grandfather told me that his last words to Collins were "drive straight to Dublin and don't f***ing stop for anything").

His name was James Hancock (often called Jim). A very tall man and a career soldier, I'm trying to find any reference to him in the annals of history. If anyone out there either knows the name or can point be in the right direction, I would be very grateful.

Also, Collins presented him with a ceremonial sword and scabbard, apparently he was the first to receive one after the creation of the state. Its wonderfully ornate and I will get a picture of it this weekend. If anyone knows anything more about these swords I'm very interested too!

So, thanks for any help you can give me.

DeV.
(18000 posts and I never thought twice about my signoff before this post )

Morlar

I would be very interested to see the pictures of that sword. You may also wish to put those pics in the militaria forum too when you get them done.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Have you tried contacting the Irish Defence Forces MILITARY ARCHIVES in Cathal Brugha Bks?.

DeVore

Wow, no I didn't know about it. I will contact them and see what they can tell me. I'll be home over the weekend and take shot of it then. Thanks for that!


DeV.

eroo

'The Day Michael Collins was Shot' by Meda Ryan. He is mentioned in that if I remember correctly. Also, as Mairt said, the Bureau of Military History in Brugha Barracks.

slapper2

eroo wrote: »

'The Day Michael Collins was Shot' by Meda Ryan. He is mentioned in that if I remember correctly. Also, as Mairt said, the Bureau of Military History in Brugha Barracks.

i'm sorry to say that book was aload of **** there is much better a read out there when it comes to that subject

eroo

slapper2 wrote: »

i'm sorry to say that book was aload of **** there is much better a read out there when it comes to that subject

I thought it was quite good. Gives a good detailed account of his final days.

DeVore

I have some pictures of it now, just processing them to upload them in the next few days.

DeV.

Parkie

DeVore wrote: »

Hi there!

My grandfather had the honour of being Michael Collins aide de comp right up to a few months before he was shot. (History buffs might be interested to know that he was transferred to head up the largest garrison in Cork I believe, Collins visited him the night before he was killed and the next morning my grandfather told me that his last words to Collins were "drive straight to Dublin and don't f***ing stop for anything").

His name was James Hancock (often called Jim). A very tall man and a career soldier, I'm trying to find any reference to him in the annals of history. If anyone out there either knows the name or can point be in the right direction, I would be very grateful.

Also, Collins presented him with a ceremonial sword and scabbard, apparently he was the first to receive one after the creation of the state. Its wonderfully ornate and I will get a picture of it this weekend. If anyone knows anything more about these swords I'm very interested too!

So, thanks for any help you can give me.

DeV.
(18000 posts and I never thought twice about my signoff before this post )

I have always believed Collins to be the most forgotton of Irish heros, all the best in finding out about your family history, and if it includes Collins, you must be a proud man.

Morlar

Parkie wrote: »

I have always believed Collins to be the most forgotton of Irish heros,

There are plenty of other heroes who fought and killed for Irish freedom who in comparison are all but forgotten. Or maybe a better way to put it would be that they are overlooked due to the overbearing presence of Collins in Irish history. Collins rightly or wrongly has been elevated (due partly to his early death) to an almost unassailable position in Irish history. Not forgotten at all in my view.

Parkie

Morlar wrote: »

There are plenty of other heroes who fought and killed for Irish freedom who in comparison are all but forgotten. Or maybe a better way to put it would be that they are overlooked due to the overbearing presence of Collins in Irish history. Collins rightly or wrongly has been elevated (due partly to his early death) to an almost unassailable position in Irish history. Not forgotten at all in my view.

But far from being recognised for the achievments....presently Dev is the hero and Collins is almost an embarresment.


"statesman verses the ?????"

hardCopy

Parkie wrote: »

But far from being recognised for the achievments....presently Dev is the hero and Collins is almost an embarresment.


"statesman verses the ?????"

...lovable military genius?


Never underestimate the power of Hollywood. I was about 11 when Michael Collins the movie came out. I'd say most lads I went to school with would see Dev as the villain ever since then.

Parkie

hardCopy wrote: »

...lovable military genius?


Never underestimate the power of Hollywood. I was about 11 when Michael Collins the movie came out. I'd say most lads I went to school with would see Dev as the villain ever since then.

My point exactly, but are we thought by hollywood, or the history books? (both are biast imo)

As the other poster correctly stated far to many have been forgotten and ignorged to a degree rightly or wrongly because of the other two men in Irish history and politics.

Either way, I do hope the origonator of this thread finds the information he seeks, otherwise this discussion could continue all night.:)

eroo

Also forgotten are the likes of Sean MacEoin, Richard Mulcahy, Michael Brennan, Emmet Dalton etc etc, as well as the 800+ Nation Army soldiers killed in the Civil War. However, this is as a result of Fianna Fail coming into power in 1932 and making heroes of the anti-Treaty side.

SpitfireIV

eroo wrote: »

I thought it was quite good. Gives a good detailed account of his final days.

Having done a fair bit of study into Collins death a couple of years back I can also verify that Meda Ryans book isnt something that you'd want to rely on for accurate information, her account of events conflicts in many regards with the stated facts.

If you want a book that covers every aspect, and I mean every aspect of Collins final days, the skirmish which cost him his life and the days/years after it then look up a book by Fr Patrick Twohig's 'Dark Secret of Beal na mBlath'. There is also John M Feehan's 'The Shooting of Michael Collins', but he focuses a lot on the 'conspiricy theory' side of events.

I must try dig out some of the info that I had accumilated on the subject and see if there is any mention of his name.

Looking forward to seeing that sword too!

eroo

@CroppyBoy1798, Ya I have seen those 2 books in the library, must read them!

Victor

Parkie wrote: »

But far from being recognised for the achievments....presently Dev is the hero and Collins is almost an embarresment.


"statesman verses the ?????"

Ah, you must vote FF then.

Hagar

"History will record the greatness of Collins, and I fear it will be at my expense." - Eamonn DeValera.

eroo

Hagar wrote: »

"History will record the greatness of Collins, and I fear it will be at my expense." - Eamonn DeValera.

There is a new book out about documents that had a major effect on Irish history. DeValera is on the cover, and I don't know why.:rolleyes:

Parkie

Victor wrote: »

Ah, you must vote FF then.

Not at all, My voting loyalites depend on the present and what so called sitting minesters have to say.


Be they FF, FG, SF, PD's (or what's left), or Labour. They all speak crap but every so often some truth comes out.


I would never blindly follow any political party....for no reason.:mad:

DeVore

Morlar wrote: »

I would be very interested to see the pictures of that sword. You may also wish to put those pics in the militaria forum too when you get them done.

I finally got shots of it and I have uploaded them to my flickr!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/78645925@N00/sets/72157608317618825/

You can see the super big size if you click on the photo and then click on "all sizes" and "original".

DeV.

That sword is a beauty!

On an off note though, I'm doing a course here at the University of Toronto called "History to modern Espionage". For my term paper I'm doing the war of independance (Collins orientated), in particular the importance of Humint. Does anyone have any good online sources as I find the U of T library to be skint on books about the topic? Sorry to derail a bit!

DeVore

Click to enlarge...







DeV.

Dub13

Some great pics.