Mac vrs PC for recording new updates wait or go PC?

dav nagle

frobisher wrote: »

Glad we got that all cleared up then. :cool:

Happy days:D

Neurojazz

I have atari RAM and a Cubase dongle still , they used to crash also lol, very rarely though

One Mac/PC argument point your missing... if it's a music computer it won't have viri on it because you only use LEGAL software - if you plan your build correctly you won't even need a viri checker on there.

My music pc is soooo quiet and soooo free of crap because it's sooo free of internet!

Helix

cornbb wrote: »

This is true, but in fairness there's more chance of me catching the ebola virus than there is of my Mac catching any virus...

same goes for pcs tho

why would you have your studio hub machine online?

PaulBrewer

cornbb wrote: »

but in fairness there's more chance of me catching the ebola virus than there is of my Mac catching any virus...

Good one !

me-skywalker

Everyone kind of goes off the main basics point of the whole debate! budget & needs vrs patience & needs....

PC will be cheaper and do what you want it to do but will have to be extra patient with multiple windows open running two or more programs while the macs cpu will invariably kick in and get goign alot better and more stable in the long run...

hence serious studios and pro's using macs for recording...

BUT BUT just for home recording... ie, acoustic,2guitars,bass,sample drums, and keys within budget to pick up some decent interface which can make the difference!!

Still gonna hold out for the new batch of macs and keep playin with my commodore and atarai while watching saved by the bell and listening to van halen on my walkman.

Neurojazz

lol - more misguided mac nonsense.

I can have 30/40 windows open in a PC and have no problems... your info comes from the post modernistic stupidity of people not understanding/ignoring what is actually happening inside your average home computer.

What function does the swap file serve?
What is a thread?
Why did AMD threaten to sue Intel over clockless componants within intel chips?
Who cares?

I'd have a Mac for webdesign / Expose for the win
And a PC in the studio

I sit in both camps and don't really care what machine does what job, at the end of the day they both *can* work.

The young jedi has much to learn....

me-skywalker

its not really misguided nonsense its a FACT that it'll just give up and start kicking out at you once you give it a few 'hard' jobs to do..

then will start to rumble away at you... fall off the desk.... try make a runner for the kitchen to stock back up on proccesed thrash thats its been running on for years.... get sick after consuming rubbish it should have never been allowed have... then tell you about a magic button from the lost island that restores all default settings while still mainting the body language of a thai prostitue 'buy me im cheap and easy, ill do lots of thigns at once for years and years and years'

Neurojazz

NO IT DOESN'T

You simply weld the computer-come-hovver craft to a square of steel no bigger than 4 cubits and 2.5 gophers wide.

It's doesn't slow down either, it's working so fast that time *appears* to slow young jedi.

studiorat

frobisher wrote: »

:D:D:D It's true, PC's suck just because they suck. MAC's suck because they are designed to quietly hoover your house while you sleep. And that is the entire argument in a nutshell.

Sh1t mine must be broken...

Helix

Neurojazz wrote: »

I can have 30/40 windows open in a PC and have no problems... your info comes from the post modernistic stupidity of people not understanding/ignoring what is actually happening inside your average home computer.

theyre the people macs are made for thought, the less computer savvy people on the planet who just want to plug it in that have a machine that does what they want it to do

others take pleasure in building their own machine, then tweaking the bejaysus out of it so that it outperforms a mac 8 times its price

dav nagle

Helix wrote: »

theyre the people macs are made for thought, the less computer savvy people on the planet who just want to plug it in that have a machine that does what they want it to do

others take pleasure in building their own machine, then tweaking the bejaysus out of it so that it outperforms a mac 8 times its price

'Tweeking the bejaysus'

No thanks I would rather make music...

Helix

you CAN do both you know, the tweaking only has to be done once if you know what youre at. if you dont, then a mac is a fine and dandy, if ridiculously expensive, solution. plus you probably wont break it

PaulBrewer

me-skywalker wrote: »

Still gonna hold out for the new batch of macs and keep playin with my commodore and atarai while watching saved by the bell and listening to van halen on my walkman.

.... and playing along through your Tom Scholz Rockman?

Neurojazz

Xp Outdated Tweakage

me-skywalker

and that therein lies the problem.....
somebody who doesnt know alot about computers and systems might not feel comfortable going around 'tweaking the bejaysus' out of their system changing settings they dont understand in the first place!

whereas your sayin the mac has its already setup for itself and ready to go which wouldnt mean inferior knowledge by the payin customer just less ahssle and more confidence, that this machine can do exactly what i want without having to optmize its settings.

oooh might just go analog and dat machines and tape ill need about 24 oompa loompa's to aid me but it'll be worth it!!

dav nagle

me-skywalker wrote: »

and that therein lies the problem.....
somebody who doesnt know alot about computers and systems might not feel comfortable going around 'tweaking the bejaysus' out of their system changing settings they dont understand in the first place!

whereas your sayin the mac has its already setup for itself and ready to go which wouldnt mean inferior knowledge by the payin customer just less ahssle and more confidence, that this machine can do exactly what i want without having to optmize its settings.

oooh might just go analog and dat machines and tape ill need about 24 oompa loompa's to aid me but it'll be worth it!!

Now you are realizing how powerful the dark force really is. Go now apprentice and kill all before you, take my saber and kill all the jedi.

cornbb

Helix wrote: »

same goes for pcs tho

why would you have your studio hub machine online?

My "studio hub" machine is my everything machine. And guess what! I run windows on it too

11811

dav nagle wrote: »

Now you are realizing how powerful the dark force really is. Go now apprentice and kill all before you, take my saber and kill all the jedi.

cant get this on a pc....http://www.macbookprose.co.uk/2006/05/turn-your-mac-into-light-sabre.html

dav nagle

Sweet nice one dude!

Dagon

I came to this forum with the exact same question as the OP during the summer.

I ended up going with a Mac for music recording, quite hesitantly at first.. but I'm really glad I made the decision to ditch Windows! I love my Mac, and I haven't experienced a crash yet! Listen to what Dav Nagle has said, you won't go too far wrong :cool: Logic pro is... just that, *logical* and very, very intuitive. Creating music is a joy on these machines...

As a Windows software developer, I have an idea what's going on inside Windows machines, and it ain't pretty. I've recently been talking to one of the software developers behind Logic pro and I'm impressed with their techniques, attention to detail and to their craft. These guys are really passionate about the product, and its quality. And it helps that Apple take good care of their workers.

I have two Windows laptops (for work), and I don't even want to use them anymore... I cringe when I have to! So yup, even if you give me Windows for free, I don't want it. Mac is a great breath of fresh air.

BTW I'm glad I didn't hold out for these upcoming models, the past couple of months have been invaluabe for just installing stuff like Logic and feeling my way around the OS. I also got my Mac for about E500 (how do I do a euro on this thing hehe) cheaper on Ebay, from the US. And the warranty is worldwide, so I can bring it to an apple care centre in Ireland and it should be covered. But fingers crossed eh...

cornbb

Dagon wrote: »

I came to this forum with the exact same question as the OP during the summer.

I ended up going with a Mac for music recording, quite hesitantly at first.. but I'm really glad I made the decision to ditch Windows! I love my Mac, and I haven't experienced a crash yet! Listen to what Dav Nagle has said, you won't go too far wrong :cool: Logic pro is... just that, *logical* and very, very intuitive. Creating music is a joy on these machines...

As a Windows software developer, I have an idea what's going on inside Windows machines, and it ain't pretty. I've recently been talking to one of the software developers behind Logic pro and I'm impressed with their techniques, attention to detail and to their craft. These guys are really passionate about the product, and its quality. And it helps that Apple take good care of their workers.

I have two Windows laptops (for work), and I don't even want to use them anymore... I cringe when I have to! So yup, even if you give me Windows for free, I don't want it. Mac is a great breath of fresh air.

BTW I'm glad I didn't hold out for these upcoming models, the past couple of months have been invaluabe for just installing stuff like Logic and feeling my way around the OS. I also got my Mac for about E500 (how do I do a euro on this thing hehe) cheaper on Ebay, from the US. And the warranty is worldwide, so I can bring it to an apple care centre in Ireland and it should be covered. But fingers crossed eh...

Good for you. This is OT but try installing Xcode and give Mac sw dev a crack too, its also a breath of fresh air. And use alt-2 for your € sign

fitz

I have only good things to say about the switch to Mac/Logic also.
Even after the hard disk in my Macbook died over the weekend (3 weeks outside warranty! )
I had backed up, so lost very little. When it came to replacing the drive, it was a very easy process.
Within an hour of fitting the drive the OS was reinstalled. The install takes no effort at all, it's incredibly straight forward. I was fully restored, with all software and plugins within about 3 hours. So, even when things do go wrong, it's relatively painless.

Gave me a bit of a fright though, so I've ordered an iMac to use as my primary home studio machine. I use my Macbook for everything at the moment, which probably isn't the best plan. Gonna take two weeks for the iMac to be delivered, which is a pain, but looking forward to its arrival.

If the OP hasn't ordered yet, I'd definitely hold off for the refresh on the Macbooks in mid-October, you'll probably get a higher spec for the same money. Either that, or check out the refurb store....good bargains to be had there. But even if you were buying immediately, I'd go Mac. Current Mac now or updated Mac later, either will be a better investment than a PC based laptop.

Dagon

fitz wrote: »

I have only good things to say about the switch to Mac/Logic also.
Even after the hard disk in my Macbook died over the weekend (3 weeks outside warranty! )
I had backed up, so lost very little. When it came to replacing the drive, it was a very easy process.

Yes, I'm aware of this problem also. I have a Macbook pro, and the new power saving feature will destroy most hard disks after a year. The problem is that it keeps parking the heads to save power and keep the hard disk safe incase you drop it. I've gotten around this "problem" by installing hpadm:
http://mckinlay.net.nz/hdapm/

Now my hard disk runs fine, without parking the heads every minute (you can hear a little distinctive click when it does this). Apple will tell you "this is just a "feature" of the new drives", and they won't do anything about it... there are lengthy threads on the apple forums about this, a lot of pissed off Macbook pro owners out there too hehe... if your hard disk does the clicking, then after another 600,000 clicks it will die (most people get through 600,000 head parks in 1 or 2 years).

Please see this thread on boards about the issue, and it's resolution:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57211946#post57211946

I'm happy that I've solved the problem, only drawback is that if I drop my MBP all data will be lost, and the disk may also be destroyed. So I'm making sure to back-up.

But yeah, other than that silly hard disk issue they're dream machines!

NOTE: the above hard disk issue isn't just a Mac problem - it has been most widely reported on Linux, and also occurs on a lot of Windows machines, including the Dell M1530 and other computers in this line (which I was considering).

PaulBrewer

Dagon wrote: »

the new power saving feature will destroy most hard disks after a year.

Please expand on this?

fitz

Apparently it's the drives themselves...they park heads too frequently, prematurely wearing out the drive.

PaulBrewer

Dagon wrote: »

the new power saving feature will destroy most hard disks after a year. [/url]

So is this hearsay or fact?

fitz

It's not that clear cut.
Have a google about it Paul, it's worth reading up on.
I'm not sure how much of it is technically correct and how much is complete rubbish.
Jury's out.

Dagon

Paul, please read these:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1234166
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/914688.html

In any case, I wouldn't be too concerned. Hard disks are not that expensive, and replacing them is easy (provided you have the invaluable music recordings and content backed-up!) - check this out:
http://jwdunn.com/2007/10/28/how-to-upgrade-your-macbook-pros-hard-drive-and-live-to-tell-the-tale/

This problem is widely documented on the Apple forums, and is a fact. A lot of people have experienced it, and in most cases yes, the hard disks will die after a year or so.

The most intelligent explanation and summary of the problem I've read is the following (willightham from the apple forum), it also seems quite accurate:

"Original drive was a Fujitsu 120GB - no plink sound, normal hard drive seek / read / write sounds.
Upgraded yesterday with a Seagate 5400.4 250GB (OEM from computer shop) and plink is there. Though, I don't notice it most of the time because of the HVAC environment that work in.

Here's the CRUCIAL PART: I've got four (yes, 4) 2.5" IDE and S-ATA drives in enclosures. I've experienced that only Seagate's newer drives that employ perpendicular read / write make plinking sounds. First encountered this with a Seagate 80GB. Thought it was going to fail and it still hasn't. Annoying? Yes. However, the 5400.4 that I'm now running off of is rated for 600,000 head parks.

This sound is not specific to MBPs, and is apparently the result of newer higher capacity notebook drive designs - people are listing this sound from Hitachi, Fujitsu and Seagate drives. I haven't hear the sounds from my 80GB Hitachi or Fujitsu drives, and will investigate my Fujitsu 120GB, but I don't recall any odd sounds. I don't have any WDs; too many drive failures, so I can't comment on those. Again, I've had this "plinking" occur on external 2.5" drives as well and seems to be built into the HDD as part of their device power management.

Also installed a Seagate 5400.4 250GB into a friend's MB yesterday (same make, model at the same time) and it exhibits the same sound.

While you might like to hold Apple accountable, the the MB(P)s are designed to heat and power consumption specs provided by HDD manufacturers. HDD manufacturers, in turn, can advertise specs like 2W consumption by parking heads to reduce power use. Apple buys according to what will meet their needs (hence Apple's shift to Intel because of Performance per Watt). If Seagate, for example, can't provide a low-watt product, Apple will go to someone who can. Everyone's looking for an advantage.

If Apple does as people suggest and creates a firmware update to eliminate HDD head parking, three (or more) things will happen:

1. Increased HDD power consumption, that leads to increased heat, which leads to higher fan use which leads to reduced batter life (times 2!). Which, needless to say, people will scream and yell and gnash their teeth about.

2. HD manufacturers would not warranty the drives they sell to Apple because Apple as, in effect, re-written the drive firmware. That'll lead to more expensive AppleCare. Remember the days of $450 AppleCare for PowerBooks? I do. It's under $300 now. Let's keep it there.

3. If your MB(P) gets knocked while you're running HDAPM, or whatever, and you end up smacking the drive head against the platter, who's really going to feel it? You, who has lost the HD and all of your data and your time to rebuild a working machine, or Apple, who might replace the drive under warranty (they might not as you're running HDAPM, and warranty does not cover things like drops, and the G-sensor is supposed to prevent data loss by working with the APM to stop the drive and park the heads, but it's being over-ridden by HDAPM...).

In the end, it's your call - Try to get Apple to replace your machine if you can't live with the plink, just remember it's typical of low power drives (at least Seagate ones that I can confirm). Also, remember to treat the service rep with the dignity you expect of others - I've seen the kind of bad karma that comes back to people who think yelling and screaming will get them "their way". And what they got makes me smile."

What do you reckon of all that Paul?

PaulBrewer

Dagon wrote: »

Paul, please read these:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1234166
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/914688.html

In any case, I wouldn't be too concerned. Hard disks are not that expensive, and replacing them is easy (provided you have the invaluable music recordings and content backed-up!) - check this out:
http://jwdunn.com/2007/10/28/how-to-upgrade-your-macbook-pros-hard-drive-and-live-to-tell-the-tale/

This problem is widely documented on the Apple forums, and is a fact. A lot of people have experienced it, and in most cases yes, the hard disks will die after a year or so.

The most intelligent explanation and summary of the problem I've read is the following (willightham from the apple forum), it also seems quite accurate:

"Original drive was a Fujitsu 120GB - no plink sound, normal hard drive seek / read / write sounds.
Upgraded yesterday with a Seagate 5400.4 250GB (OEM from computer shop) and plink is there. Though, I don't notice it most of the time because of the HVAC environment that work in.

Here's the CRUCIAL PART: I've got four (yes, 4) 2.5" IDE and S-ATA drives in enclosures. I've experienced that only Seagate's newer drives that employ perpendicular read / write make plinking sounds. First encountered this with a Seagate 80GB. Thought it was going to fail and it still hasn't. Annoying? Yes. However, the 5400.4 that I'm now running off of is rated for 600,000 head parks.

This sound is not specific to MBPs, and is apparently the result of newer higher capacity notebook drive designs - people are listing this sound from Hitachi, Fujitsu and Seagate drives. I haven't hear the sounds from my 80GB Hitachi or Fujitsu drives, and will investigate my Fujitsu 120GB, but I don't recall any odd sounds. I don't have any WDs; too many drive failures, so I can't comment on those. Again, I've had this "plinking" occur on external 2.5" drives as well and seems to be built into the HDD as part of their device power management.

Also installed a Seagate 5400.4 250GB into a friend's MB yesterday (same make, model at the same time) and it exhibits the same sound.

While you might like to hold Apple accountable, the the MB(P)s are designed to heat and power consumption specs provided by HDD manufacturers. HDD manufacturers, in turn, can advertise specs like 2W consumption by parking heads to reduce power use. Apple buys according to what will meet their needs (hence Apple's shift to Intel because of Performance per Watt). If Seagate, for example, can't provide a low-watt product, Apple will go to someone who can. Everyone's looking for an advantage.

If Apple does as people suggest and creates a firmware update to eliminate HDD head parking, three (or more) things will happen:

1. Increased HDD power consumption, that leads to increased heat, which leads to higher fan use which leads to reduced batter life (times 2!). Which, needless to say, people will scream and yell and gnash their teeth about.

2. HD manufacturers would not warranty the drives they sell to Apple because Apple as, in effect, re-written the drive firmware. That'll lead to more expensive AppleCare. Remember the days of $450 AppleCare for PowerBooks? I do. It's under $300 now. Let's keep it there.

3. If your MB(P) gets knocked while you're running HDAPM, or whatever, and you end up smacking the drive head against the platter, who's really going to feel it? You, who has lost the HD and all of your data and your time to rebuild a working machine, or Apple, who might replace the drive under warranty (they might not as you're running HDAPM, and warranty does not cover things like drops, and the G-sensor is supposed to prevent data loss by working with the APM to stop the drive and park the heads, but it's being over-ridden by HDAPM...).

In the end, it's your call - Try to get Apple to replace your machine if you can't live with the plink, just remember it's typical of low power drives (at least Seagate ones that I can confirm). Also, remember to treat the service rep with the dignity you expect of others - I've seen the kind of bad karma that comes back to people who think yelling and screaming will get them "their way". And what they got makes me smile."

What do you reckon of all that Paul?

I reckon my drive went down a couple of weeks ago while waiting for the new Laptops!

Good work, Squire!

frobisher

I know I joked around in this thread a bit but after some of the above posts I'd like to point out to the OP that PC's are very, very effective machines for making music on. I'm not saying macs aren't as they are the same, just trying to bring a little balance. I have a PC that has been running for years that has served me brilliantly.

PaulBrewer

frobisher wrote: »

I know I joked around in this thread a bit but after some of the above posts I'd like to point out to the OP that PC's are very, very effective machines for making music on. I'm not saying macs aren't as they are the same, just trying to bring a little balance. I have a PC that has been running for years that has served me brilliantly.

Yea right ...:rolleyes: Buy a tuner, ya Hippie

frobisher

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Yea right ...:rolleyes: Buy a tuner, ya Hippie

I will when you start to answer your phone, ya failed musician ya :p:p

PaulBrewer

frobisher wrote: »

I will when you start to answer your phone, ya failed musician ya :p:p

I'm not failed I'm just not very good and I was in the Charts! I'm too busy to answer my phone....

Dagon

PaulBrewer wrote: »

I reckon my drive went down a couple of weeks ago while waiting for the new Laptops!

Good work, Squire!

I know people with older Macs, and the hard drives have went for nearly a decade in some cases with no issues. So this is a problem related to the newer drives.

Kind of funny how they go just outside the warranty period eh...!

Neurojazz

Mac Pro users take note!

PaulBrewer

Interesting!!

Just to stretch the debate a bit further -

I'd guess that the music that's made on Macs is BETTER than the music made on PCs ....

Any thoughts?

dav nagle

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Interesting!!

Just to stretch the debate a bit further -

I'd guess that the music that's made on Macs is BETTER than the music made on PCs ....

Any thoughts?

Oh my god is this thread still burning?

Macs and PC'S are both great at making music however:

If you are running a studio and time is money and all that then never in your life use a PC, because they stop working from time to time. If this happens in a 'real world recording scenario' the studio will look like a pack of amateurs...
That is why studios for the most part use mac because they are so reliable and unlikely to just stop working.
Fact.


Great example.

Friend of mine came home the other day windows told him a file was missing all of a sudden, that was his wednesday night down the drain, his number is 087 664 8727 name Alan. He is a PC guru and one day he was fine next day his PC was broke!...

Paul to answer your question!
An absolutely genius musician and producer could easily make better music on a pc.


Performance wise MAC

The real question should be which is more reliable!

RELIABLE

frobisher

dav nagle wrote: »

Oh my god is this thread still burning?

Macs and PC'S are both great at making music however:

If you are running a studio and time is money and all that then never in your life use a PC, because they stop working from time to time. If this happens in a 'real world recording scenario' the studio will look like a pack of amateurs...
That is why studios for the most part use mac because they are so reliable and unlikely to just stop working.
Fact.

WTF?!! Oh, sorry. I just the re-read the word "fact" on the end. Well it must be true then. :rolleyes:

dav nagle

frobisher wrote: »

WTF?!! Oh, sorry. I just the re-read the word "fact" on the end. Well it must be true then. :rolleyes:

Have you a point to make in regards to what I am saying?
Prove me wrong?

Dagon

dav nagle wrote: »

Friend of mine came home the other day windows told him a file was missing all of a sudden, that was his wednesday night down the drain, his number is 087 664 8727 name Alan. He is a PC guru and one day he was fine next day his PC was broke!...


RELIABLE

I develop software for use on Windows systems, and you wouldn't believe the amount of time we waste testing this stuff out. Even somebody with 10+ years software development experience on Windows can be totally stumped and lose days working to resolve "weird error 324890" and figure out this doesn't occur on a customers system. The people with the most experience, who know Windows inside out, will tell you that - at any point - it can just decide to stop without any good reason.

I can imagine a music studio dominated by mostly Windows systems is a disaster waiting to happen...

Neurojazz

utter tripe

jtsuited

Neurojazz wrote: »

utter tripe

are you going to back that up with anything?

dav nagle

Dagon wrote: »

I develop software for use on Windows systems, and you wouldn't believe the amount of time we waste testing this stuff out. Even somebody with 10+ years software development experience on Windows can be totally stumped and lose days working to resolve "weird error 324890" and figure out this doesn't occur on a customers system. The people with the most experience, who know Windows inside out, will tell you that - at any point - it can just decide to stop without any good reason.

I can imagine a music studio dominated by mostly Windows systems is a disaster waiting to happen...

I agree 100%

Now maybe one or two people have perfect PC's that are immune to their common failure rate but this is a general thread based on users experience. I have over ten years experience with PC's and when it came to reliability they never ever cut the mustard.

Of course some will have no problems and fair play lads but if you went commercial with a PC and thats what I did you may just be biting your lip when the junk heap crashes in front of a client ..

PaulBrewer

Neurojazz wrote: »

utter tripe

Never had Tripe. I wouldn't think I'd like it.

jtsuited

look let's be honest here, macs are cool. like smoking.

dav nagle

jtsuited wrote: »

are you going to back that up with anything?

Frobisher will you back up why I have been so in correct using the term 'fact' please?

WTF?!! Oh, sorry. I just the re-read the word "fact" on the end. Well it must be true then.
__________________
More black rum please.

dav nagle

jtsuited wrote: »

look let's be honest here, macs are cool. like smoking.

Yeah man they are pretty sweet!

Fact is that the PC users have no ammo

PaulBrewer

dav nagle wrote: »

Frobisher will you back up why I have been so in correct using the term 'fact' please?

WTF?!! Oh, sorry. I just the re-read the word "fact" on the end. Well it must be true then.
__________________
More black rum please.

Ah Dav, he was jokin'

PaulBrewer

dav nagle wrote: »

Frobisher will you back up why I have been so in correct using the term 'fact' please?

WTF?!! Oh, sorry. I just the re-read the word "fact" on the end. Well it must be true then.
__________________
More black rum please.

However your 'in correct' is in fact 'incorrect' .... which, as a mistake, has a nice symmetry to it, don't you think?

dav nagle

PaulBrewer wrote: »

However your 'in correct' is in fact 'incorrect' .... which, as a mistake, has a nice symmetry to it, don't you think?

It has a beautiful asymmetry to be exact!

The truth is I absolutely love this argument because I have experienced for better or for worse both machines and I know what I am shoveling is good healthy spinach.