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Labour Party on Libertas/CIA CT.

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    #122
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Surely only acts, not motives, are actionable.


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    #123
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Surely only acts, not motives, are actionable.

    In a vote, motives are important too. What a lot of Libertas' defenders don't seem to get is that voters want to know.

    Further, let me put it to you like this:

    1. say we have a problem with kids getting into our barn

    2. we stop up what we think are the routes being used

    3. we find a kid in the barn

    Now, what you are saying is that we should not investigate how that kid got into the barn. We are saying we should. It's not about punishing the kid, but about preventing it happening again.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #124
    The Corinthian
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭The Corinthian


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Surely only acts, not motives, are actionable.
    Dumbest thing I've heard in a while. Motive is central to how we define justice. Motive or intent is is what differentiates self-defence from murder, after all.

    Of Libertas, I cannot say what their motivations are or who, if anyone, is pulling their strings. But I can say that there are too many glaringly obvious and disturbing associations for me to trust them as far as I'd spit a dead rat.

    As Ben Dunne - someone I wouldn't necessarily trust either, but to give him his dues did blow the whistle on Haughey - recently commented; "I just don't have any time for the Libertas party or anything that they stand for. They're into... they're mixed up in too many things for my liking"


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    #125
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    Dumbest thing I've heard in a while. Motive is central to how we define justice. Motive or intent is is what differentiates self-defence from murder, after all.

    [/I]


    Having a motive is not a crime. If you have not committed a crime, your motives are irrelevant.

    What's dumb about that?


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    #126
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,762 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Having a motive is not a crime. If you have not committed a crime, your motives are irrelevant.

    What's dumb about that?


    In the eyes of the law maybe, but we are not talking about the law. Whats with this pedantry anyway dresden, you know what we're talking about. Ganley had an impact on the referendum and we're just a bit suspicious as to why he got involved. Where's the issue with that? Noone here is pressing charges so can we please leave the legalities out of it, they are irrelevant to the discussion. His motives do matter to us outside the law because he acted on them and had an impact because of them.


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    #127
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    molloyjh wrote: »
    In the eyes of the law maybe, but we are not talking about the law. Whats with this pedantry anyway dresden, you know what we're talking about. Ganley had an impact on the referendum and we're just a bit suspicious as to why he got involved. Where's the issue with that? Noone here is pressing charges so can we please leave the legalities out of it, they are irrelevant to the discussion. His motives do matter to us outside the law because he acted on them and had an impact because of them.

    He was asking us to vote a particular way in the referendum, and he'll be asking us to vote for Libertas in the euros. Why does he want us to vote that way? What's in it for him? What will he do if elected?

    There's nothing weird about these questions, but the ardent defence is becoming ever more strange!

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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    #128
    studiorat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    I'd love to see their political agenda for Europe. Support for Libertas might be a different kettle of fish when they actually roll out their political views if they do at all. It wouldn't suprise me if Ganley tried to start a political party and be totally cagey about their actual agenda.
    "We will tell people that Libertas is the box you put your X in if you want to vote 'No' to the Lisbon Treaty. It's clear, it's simple".

    I wonder how many UKIP candidates will jump aboard.

    http://www.whoisdeclanganley.blogspot.com/


    Great gas going on at politics.ie at the moment regarding D.Cockranes owning the site and being a libertas mamber...


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