red tdi somene explain (warning, contains traces of nuts)

IrishRover

I once had an interesting encounter with a MKIV Golf GTTDI in my Honda D16 twincam engined car. The book figure of the Honda engine is 128 BHP (PS DIN). I don't know if the Golf is supposed to be 130 or 150, but regardless, although the power output may look similar on paper, the way they both deliver this power is as different as could possibly be.

I say it was interesting because it was a fascinating challenge to see how both cars could accelerate at the same time from about 50 to about 120, both engines working in completely different ways to propel their respective chassis forward. You might think that this range would be perfect for the torque of the diesel, but in fact, it was the high revving nature of the Honda engine combined with the fact that the torque it delivers consistently rises as the revs increase (the opposite being the case with the diesel) which allowed it to comprehensively win the challenge.

It was what you could consider to be a textbook demonstration of what happens when the diesel has to change gears more often in order to find the beginning of another wave of torque while the performance petrol engine simply keeps accelerating in the same gear inexorably. I had to make only a single gear change over this test. It is this relentless acceleration in the same gear which I am certain is the single advantage that performance petrol engines still have over powerful diesel engines.

stretchaq

OK its time to end this i drive a 130bhp Audi A4 its chipped to 168bhp and had a 200bhp golf tdi (for the simple fact that i drive almost 1000 miles a week and like a bit of poke) before this i owned a 1997 M3 and people stop kidding yourselfs the M3 would eat the golf up spit it out and then change into 4th your comparing a near supercar to a refined tractor!!!!!!!! dont get me wrong as diesels go VAG are the best most responsive etc. my brother has a 150bhp 320d and constantly complains about its lack of response and performance compared to even my 130bhp(before the chip) but as regards M5s and M3 or integras or civics type rs no hope a good chipped diesel will beat a GTI golf or similar but not any of these high revving jap cars or BMW

END OF

now stop all this rubbish talk

SV

Never truer words spoke.

BlackWizard

I only bought a VW Passat 130 last weekend. I'll be collecting it this weekend.

It took me nearly a month to find the right spec. I was trying to get a comfortline and 130 BHP. The first car I drove was a high milage car in okay condition. Lots of power from the engine and drove very well. But I thought I could get one with less milage and better condition. The next two, where advertised as comfortline and 130 BHP. Both had red DI letters on the engine and boot lid. The first seemed like it's turbo was not working. At this point and time, I knew as much as the OP. I suspected that something was wrong. So I test drove the second car. It had a bit more power, but it still didn't seem as powerful as the first car I drove.

A day later I found out about checking the car information in where the spare well is. For a 130 BPH passat it must have something like 98KW. I read that if I multiply the KW figure by 1.33 I'll roughly get the BHP figure. So I went back to the two cars I test drive and checked out the car information plate. One was 100 BHP and the other 112 BHP. The dealerships both acted surprised and did change their advertisements.

Next car I went to see was a beauty. Came in from the UK and was in great condition and low milage. Checked out the plate in the boot and informed the dealership that it's not a 130BHP. He then rang up the chap who brought the car in and he confirmed its the 100BHP. The dealership salesman said he must of "accidently" advertised it as 130BHP. Then after all this I told him that his car is NOT comfortline either. But I didn't let him try talk his way out of that, I just walked out.

I eventually found the right car. But if anyone is trying to get a 130BHP passat or something similar in the Golf range, make sure you check the plate in the boot well. It's also on the tax/owners book ( not sure what it's called. Has owners details on it )

One passat I went to see was in great condition but the engine was lacking. I checked out the boot sticker and it was scraped. So I asked for the tax book. It said it had 5555555KW power, 5555555KG towing, 0 Owners and a few other strange details. I walked away

Dirty_Diesel

cancan wrote: »

Pure comedic gold!
There is a bit of a disconnect between how fast TDI's are and how fast their owners think they are.

Go buy a proper fast car and come back to us.

I've had plenty of fast cars, care to take a look at some?

Pay close attention to the last two pics; see how my sedan made 259bhp? Still didnt couldn't beat my friends golf up to 60 mph.

And just in case you think I plucked the photos off cyberspace, you can see they were all taken with my Olympus camera.

lightening

They are ugly ass cars!

(genuinely no offense dirty, just not my taste at all...! If we all had the same taste things would be boring. I am sure they are amazing cars...)

SV

Dirty_Diesel wrote: »

I've had plenty of fast cars, care to take a look at some?

Pay close attention to the last two pics; see how my sedan made 259bhp? Still didnt couldn't beat my friends golf up to 60 mph.

I'm afraid your driving skills have much to be desired so.

omega man

I used to own a Leon TDI150 remapped to 185 ish. Yes it felt like it was the fastest car in the world but that was just a perception caused by the high torque. In relaity it was only as fast as the 1.8T 180 (stock) petrol version. The TDI150 stock did 0-60 in about 8.9 and with a map im guessing around 8.0 so the golf would be in and around the same. How on gods earth this can lead to statements i have seen with regard to evo's and M3's etc i just dont know. I drive a Mazda 3 MPS and i wouldnt even bother with a golf TDI, even the new 2.0 170 ones, so i assume those evo and M3 drivers were probably changing cd's or something at the time

tossy

surprised this hasn't been locked yet,im impressed!

Zonda999 i think that guy VH was being sarcastic

peasant

tossy wrote: »

surprised this hasn't been locked yet,im impressed!

Locking it would attribute far too much credibility to this thread

Climate Expert

Why does the VW TDI engine ignite such passion in people? No other engine creates such lively debate, it really is out there on its own.

peasant

Climate Expert wrote: »

Why does the VW TDI engine ignite such passion in people? No other engine creates such lively debate, it really is out there on its own.

That particular engine (type) may not be the strongest one of its kind or the best one, but it was the TDI engine that did away with the old prejudice that all diesels were slow and sluggish while it sold in large numbers across the VAG range.

cancan

Climate Expert wrote: »

Why does the VW TDI engine ignite such passion in people? No other engine creates such lively debate, it really is out there on its own.

What other group of owners is so disconnected from reality than TDI owners.

Already we have people say the can "eat" m3's and m5, and leave evo's and sti's for dust, and they are being serious!


Ground control to Major Tom?

Climate Expert

cancan wrote: »

What other group of owners is so disconnected from reality than TDI owners.

Already we have people say the can "eat" m3's and m5, and leave evo's and sti's for dust, and they are being serious!


Ground control to Major Tom?

And on the flipside if you read half the stuff on here you would think that
1. The TDI is one of the slowest engines ever put into a production car.
2. Gear changes have to occur every 10rpm to keep the thing moving
3. It has the loudest tickover in any engine ever built.
4. It was originally designed in 1947 and has only seen minor modification over the years.

SV

wondered how long it would be before you turned up Climate_Expert.



The reason it ignites such a response is they're like mac owners.. in that the only thing the owners of other engines can do that they can't is SHUT THE F**K UP.

oh and eh, your 130bhp is nowhere as near as fast as you think, stop dreaming.

Henry Ford III

Climate Expert wrote: »

And on the flipside if you read half the stuff on here you would think that
1. The TDI is one of the slowest engines ever put into a production car.
2. Gear changes have to occur every 10rpm to keep the thing moving
3. It has the loudest tickover in any engine ever built.
4. It was originally designed in 1947 and has only seen minor modification over the years.

1/. The basic ones were pedestrian enough. The better ones were....erm....better. Chipping doesn't turn them into sports cars though. I don't think anyone really thinks it does.
2/. Most diesels have relatively narrow powerbands.
3/. It's an old design, not ever noted for it's quietness. More modern units show it up rather badly.
4/. Might have been 1948 or 49?

Yesterdays engines, which have had their day, and are better consigned to history at this point.

Climate Expert

ClioV6 wrote: »

wondered how long it would be before you turned up Climate_Expert.



The reason it ignites such a response is they're like mac owners.. in that the only thing the owners of other engines can do that they can't is SHUT THE F**K UP.

oh and eh, your 130bhp is nowhere as near as fast as you think, stop dreaming.

170Bhp and 300lb/ft of torque in a Golf is fast though. Anybody who says otherwise is a fool. There are very few non-exotic cars that are as fast as it. Considering you can buy one for a 7-8K thats pretty impressive.

SV

Climate Expert wrote: »

170Bhp and 300lb/ft of torque in a Golf is fast though. Anybody who says otherwise is a fool. There are very few non-exotic cars that are as fast as it. Considering you can buy one for a 7-8K thats pretty impressive.

Fast enough yes, but NOT a fast car.

Then again, a Daewoo Matiz is "fast enough" for most people.

Climate Expert

ClioV6 wrote: »

Fast enough yes, but NOT a fast car.

Then again, a Daewoo Matiz is "fast enough" for most people.

As I said its all relative.

An M5 is not a fast car. That would be a Veyron, but then we could talk abou F1 cars etc.

Fast should be relative to average and the average car on the road is a 4 years old and has **** all power to weight.

cancan

Climate Expert wrote: »

170Bhp and 300lb/ft of torque in a Golf is fast though. Anybody who says otherwise is a fool. There are very few non-exotic cars that are as fast as it. Considering you can buy one for a 7-8K thats pretty impressive.

Depends on your definition of "non-exotic".
At the end of the day, given a choice, you'd all rather be in the Golf GTI.

Because of tax and economy, people choose TDI's as a non-ideal compromise, and while swift, lets not overstate their prowess.

There are plenty of cars out there for the same money which are much quicker...

In the footchain of fast cars, TDI's are plankton
.

Climate Expert

There are plenty of cars out there for the same money which are much quicker..

Not really. Tell me a 02 car that I can buy and run for the same price that can go as fast?

tossy

Climate Expert wrote: »

170Bhp and 300lb/ft of torque in a Golf is fast though. Anybody who says otherwise is a fool. There are very few non-exotic cars that are as fast as it

A TDi golf with the above stats will still be hitting 60 at the wrong side of 8 sces,that is not fast im sorry,its only relatively quick.

Im sorry im a VAG nut and a big fan of the TDI engine but i have to sprinkle a dose of reality on this debate.

My old modest 130 bhp golf had 230 ft lbs of torque (an E46 m3 has around 260) yet my golf took over 9 secs to hit 60,my new car has 220bhp and only 200 odd ft lbs of torque but will hit 60 in just over 6 secs.

Its not that hard to understand really.

cancan

Climate Expert wrote: »

Not really. Tell me a 02 car that I can buy and run for the same price that can go as fast?

Post up what TDI you want me to beat for the same money.
Only 02's i can see for 7-8k are base model high mileage TDi's (bhp undetermined) or vans...

Now if this was about which model has the nicest dash, the TDI would win, hands down.

I'm sorry, but your car is not as fast as you would like it to be.

Climate Expert

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Volkswagen/Bora/1.9TDI-130BHP/1191711/

We will of course be remapping it to what was originally intended, 165bhp give or take a few. Get me a 02 car that is at least as fast and as inexpensive as this one.

stretchaq

Climate Expert wrote: »

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Volkswagen/Bora/1.9TDI-130BHP/1191711/

We will of course be remapping it to what was originally intended, 165bhp give or take a few. Get me a 02 car that is at least as fast and as inexpensive as this one.

OMG i cant listen to this rubbish about TDIs and i drive one there not that quick, there a nice pokey car who f*ckin cares if its 02 you could get a 99 v-tec for the same money 97 M3, golf GTI, a Cupra god a million different cars,

STOP THE TDI RUBBISH POKEY CAR YES

WORLD BEATER NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

lightening

This is cheaper and nicer looking and doesn't need "remapping"

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Alfa-Romeo/156/jts-166bhp/1206887/

Climate Expert

I knew somebody would go for an Alfa as there is nothing else. Well you are wrong anyway. The Alfa will cost you more in fuel, tax, insurance and repairs and is about as fast. Try again.

Mr. Presentable

It's funny that any time someone mentions a Golf this argument happens.

The TDi was a great, mould-breaking engine when it came out, but as it ages it has become merely good while competitiors improve on the technology.

Comparing a Golf TDi with a BMW M3 is daft. Comparing it with an EVO is daft (unless there's some diesel EVO/M3 etc I am unfamiliar with). But by all means compare it with another diesel.

The TDi has allowed diesel owners to have power similar to petrol cars for the first time, and that is why it is a historically great engine. Maybe the new Emperor will be the TSi.......so much BHP from so little.

Anyway, I hope the gentle OP managed to extract an answer to the original question without getting frustrated by all the villy-vafings:D

lightening

Climate Expert wrote: »

I knew somebody would go for an Alfa

Well you did ask!!

sk8board

lightening wrote: »

This is cheaper and nicer looking and doesn't need "remapping"

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Alfa-Romeo/156/jts-166bhp/1206887/

and most importantly, it doesn't sound like a Massey, nor will it wake the neighbours early every morning when you start it (as my neighbours does).

Couldn't care less if it goes like a rocket. Its still a Massey, for people who like to compare their mpg down the pub.