Should Mary Harney resign?

spank_inferno

I believe she is a capable person who cares a lot about health care.

I've met the woman and was given the impression that she did genuinely want what was best for public health.
But I also feel that the time has come for her to step aside & let someone with new ideas take the helm (if there are any in FF with ideas)

As TD's go she is one of the better ones so I'd like to see here continue to have some sort of role in government.

sovtek

spank_inferno wrote: »

I believe she is a capable person who cares a lot about health care.

I've met the woman and was given the impression that she did genuinely want what was best for public health.

Harney is a staunch privatizer and seems to buy the whole Chicago School when it comes to organizing a society. If she cared about public health why would she model her health system based on some of the worst models in the first world?

spank_inferno

I'm not defending her, I said I think she should resign.
But I also cant think of any TD that could do a better job of it either

dresden8

Begob wrote: »

Lol and your point is caller? How plainly is it a conflict of interest?
I suggest you buy a dictionary too and look up the word massive.

You've mentioned possibly 0.1% of the business of her husbands company with no recourse to examples.I'll give you one though that shows you are talking nonsense.
I'd hardly call this governments relationship with hospital consultants very cosy for example.
I suggest what you have here is a very very very poor ct.

Next you'll be telling us that theres a conflict of interest with farmer td's or publican t.d's or T.d's that have held down any job or their husbands or wives that have.Lets include the rest of their family and close friends while we are at it and the 7th relation of a 7th relation..

Minister for Health's husband is involved with lobbying in respect of the health industry.

You're right, no connection there.

Begob

Repeating that statement doesn't make it true.

Time Magazine

lostexpectation wrote: »

she's not taoiseach.

No, she's Minister for Health and supported the scheme under two taoisigh.

What's your point?

Sponge Bob

spank_inferno wrote: »

But I also feel that the time has come for her to step aside & let someone with new ideas take the helm (if there are any in FF with ideas)

Noel Dempsey , bring Noel on !

galwayrush

How many jobs were crested in the health service since she became minister, and what percantage of that were actual consultants/doctors or nurses?
I imagine almost all of the new jobs were advisors / clerical:mad:

Time Magazine

galwayrush wrote: »

How many jobs were crested in the health service since she became minister, and what percantage of that were actual consultants/doctors or nurses?
I imagine almost all of the new jobs were advisors / clerical:mad:

http://www.dohc.ie/statistics/key_trends/health_service_employment/table_5_1.html

9,000 new nurses, 9,000 new admin, 8,000 more "general support staff/patient care", 9,000 new health care professionals, 3,000 new medical/dental staff.

lostexpectation

David McWilliams wrote: »

No, she's Minister for Health and supported the scheme under two taoisigh.

What's your point?

two ff taoiseach i think you get my point.

Time Magazine

lostexpectation wrote: »

two ff taoiseach i think you get my point.

Yeah I do, you're intentionally trying to fob off her support of a socialised health insurance plan onto the fact that the taoisigh of the day were in FF. By doing so you're somehow trying to obfuscate your claim and hope it retains some merit. Simply because Mary Harney is a PD and the taoiseach in FF doesn't change the fact that she support a risk equalisation scheme as far as possible. Let's not get into a debate on risk equalisation, but it's certainly not something that's supported only by "those who can afford healthcare", it's pretty much the opposite.

What you're suggesting is as ludicrous as saying Niamh Breathnach didn't support the introduction of free fees because it was brought in under a FG taoiseach. It's nonsensical.

The health system is a mess. Many areas have improved greatly. Some areas have gotten worse. The public have not gotten value for money for the huge sums that we have poured into the HSE. As I said, the health system is a mess.

There are more than enough stones to throw at Mary Harney. Don't falsely make new ones.

Mr.Micro

In reply to the OP, what would be the point in M.Harney resigning. The health system in ireland is full of ineptitudes and MH resigning will not change that. It is going to take years to overhaul the system and IMO it will never happen. Its privatization that will be the new system in Ireland no matter what we all say and want. Perhaps such a system will make the ineptidudes accountable but it will not get rid of them as privatization may mean hiring cheaper and profit is the real goal. Its a thorny issue with no real solutions to suit everybody.

gcgirl

lets just sack the whole government !

JP Liz

A FORMER Labour Party TD, whose wife died 20 years ago after a courageous battle against breast cancer, was horrified to receive a letter from BreastCheck calling his late partner for an X-ray appointment.
Councillor John Mulvihill -- who is also a former mayor of Cork -- admitted he was hurt, angry and deeply shocked at how such an appalling mistake could be made.
"It brings back all the pain -- and the terrible sense of loss," Mr Mulvihill told the Irish Independent.
"I know that mistakes can happen -- and if her death was four or five years ago, I can maybe understand how it might have happened. But 20 years later? It is a little bit much. It's very hard to take," he said.
Mary Mulvihill was just 39 years old when she was diagnosed with breast cancer. The mother of four bravely fought the condition; but doctors were unable to control the disease and she lost her courageous battle for life when she was 42.
Mr Mulvihill raised the couple's four children, three boys and a girl, himself -- and his son, John Jnr, is the Mayor of Cobh.
Mr Mulvihill served as a TD for Cork East from 1992 to 1997 and remains one of the highest-profile Labour councillors in Ireland.
Last night, BreastCheck issued an unreserved apology to Mr Mulvihill and his family -- and stressed that they deeply regretted any hurt and upset caused by the unfortunate error.
"We have spoken to him and offered our apologies and explained how this is not a common occurrence," a spokesman said.
"Unfortunately, Ireland, unlike other countries where screening is offered, does not have a national Population Register and, therefore, we have assembled our own register from a number of sources.
"We make every effort to ensure that the BreastCheck population register is accurate; unfortunately, if a death has not been registered or there are inaccuracies in one of these databases that supply BreastCheck with details of women eligible for screening, we cannot avoid inheriting the incorrect detail and such an uncommon and regrettable incident may occur."
'Insensitive'
The cspokesman stressed that they wanted to assure the entire Mulvihill family that it was never their intention "to be insensitive".
However, the Labour politician admitted the letter had deeply shocked him.
"I've been in politics for most of my life. I never try to let the knocks get me down -- I try to take the good with the bad as best I can," he said.
But the former Naval Service NCO admitted he was absolutely horrified when he received the BreastCheck letter.
Worse still, his family were deeply upset that the pain of their mother's loss should have been so cruelly brought back.
Mr Mulvihill said that if this was the type of healthcare system now being operated in Ireland, Health Minister Mary Harney should do the decent thing and resign.
In the letter, BreastCheck invited Mary Mulvihill to participate in the national breast screening programme -- and explained the campaign was being extended in the Cork region.
The letter explained that breast cancer was one of the major causes of death amongst women in Ireland -- and the aim of the programme was to reduce the fatality rate.
Mrs Mulvihill was told that the screening was being extended to women aged from 50 to 64 years in the Cork area -- and she was asked to arrange a free breast X-ray for herself.
"What makes the whole thing so upsetting is that Mary actually died from breast cancer," Mr Mulvihill said.

Its time for her to go

Robbo

JP Liz wrote: »

Its time for her to go

For a clerical error?

enda1

JP Liz wrote: »

Its time for her to go

Em?

So because Ireland doesn't have a population database she should resign?? Maybe to take a trip to the mathematics forum to brush up on your logic.

Villain

It made me almost physicaly sick to hear Michael Noonan talking about the case of a sick woman in the dail, that man can not dictate to any Minister for Health after what he did to Bridget McCole. Hyprocosy at its worst

JP Liz

She shouldnt resign she should be sacked :mad:

lostexpectation

David McWilliams wrote: »

What you're suggesting is as ludicrous as saying Niamh Breathnach didn't support the introduction of free fees because it was brought in under a FG taoiseach. It's nonsensical.

The health system is a mess. Many areas have improved greatly. Some areas have gotten worse. The public have not gotten value for money for the huge sums that we have poured into the HSE. As I said, the health system is a mess.

There are more than enough stones to throw at Mary Harney. Don't falsely make new ones.

the taoiseach has the authority to overrule the the minister not the other way around.

Time Magazine

And what about those plentiful cases where they both agree, like risk equalisation?

nuac

The health service is a massive entity with many problems,

Mary Harney has tried to cope with some of them. I believe scrapping the Health Boards was a good idea, and will eventually lead to lower costs and more efficiency.

Setting up the HSE and recruiting Prof Drumm were also positive moves.

Some improvements have been obtained in the new consultants' contracts.

centres of excellence for specialised tretement is the only realistic way to go - the time is past for parish pump politics.

There are still too many administrators. There are too many in entrenched positions from consultants down to porters, stridently supported by their respective unions.

Health needs a strong Minister. Mary Harney is the best available from either side of the Dail. She has more balls than the rest of them put together.

mikemac

+1 to the post from nuac.

I can't understand the OP wanting her sacked for a error made by medical staff. Obviously the solution is more training, teams of experts, specialization and checks and the centres of excellance will deliver all this.
But then some people will demand one in every county in Ireland so how is it even possible to keep everyone happy?

She is a strong minister and improvements are being made. But unless have omnipotent power to take on vested interests then it's going to take years to see these through.

And you may well read about even more scandals in the next 2-3 years but I reckon progress is being made.

Firetrap

I'm not a Mary Harney fan by any means but I can't see any other minister doing a better job if she did resign/get sacked. The whole system is fcked up by vested interests and no outside power seems to be able to do anything about it.

ninty9er

dresden8 wrote: »

I'm surprised that nobody has made the connection between Harney and this crowd.

http://www.mrpakinman.ie/services.asp

What do these people do?



What is the connection with Mary Harney you might ask?

http://www.mrpakinman.ie/about_brian.asp

Her husband is the effing Chairman of the company!!!!!!!!!!!

Does nobody know what the fack is going on in this country?

Plainly a massive conflict of interest and nobody freaking notices.

I give up.

Have you reviewed the definition of a chairman lately. No decision making authority....if anything; designed to hold the company directors accountable.


***

Changing the direction of the health service now would only bring us back to square one and then move a bit in the opposite direction, before someone new came and changed back to co-location and we end up at square one again. If it doesn't work by 2030, then fine it's been a failure....but you can't assume that until it's been tried and tested. and 20 years is about as short a time-period as I'd be willing to accept before it could be called a failure. I'd accept it if that was the outcome then.

I'm no PD sympathiser, but I have absolutely no objection to Mary Harney continuing as Minister for Health until the next election should she wish to, and if she is to be replaced, I would want her successor to continue unflinchingly in the same vain.

jahalpin

Why should she resign? She is doing very well considering the lack of help that she is recieving from the civil servants and their unions etc.

The cancer misdiagnosis was due to the incompetence of supposedly qualified people. The doctors that mis-read the tests should be reported to the medical council and have their authorisation to practice revoked

A lot of the problem in the health service is down to the civil service.

Professor Drumm wsa hired to run the health service on a day-to-day basis, he had been totally useless and has in fact made things worse, he is the one that should be fired.

ninty9er

jahalpin wrote: »

Why should she resign? She is doing very well considering the lack of help that she is recieving from the civil servants and their unions etc.

The cancer misdiagnosis was due to the incompetence of supposedly qualified people. The doctors that mis-read the tests should be reported to the medical council and have their authorisation to practice revoked

A lot of the problem in the health service is down to the civil service.

Professor Drumm wsa hired to run the health service on a day-to-day basis, he had been totally useless and has in fact made things worse, he is the one that should be fired.

Did you miss the press release yesterday that announced a 25% cutback in HSE administrative staff

BOHSBOHS

jahalpin: "A lot of the problem in the health service is down to the civil service."


how is that ? there arent any civil servants in the Health Service Executive


will be interesting to see what cuts are made
i have a feeling that 1000 redundancies will mean 1000 of the lowest grades will be cut , rather than 1000 middle managers

HSE employment end 2007 (FTEs)
medical/dental 8,005
nursing 39,006
health/social care prf 15,705
management/admin 18,043
general support staff 12,900
other/patient-client care 17,846

is_that_so

jahalpin wrote: »

Why should she resign? She is doing very well considering the lack of help that she is receiving from the civil servants and their unions etc.

The cancer misdiagnosis was due to the incompetence of supposedly qualified people. The doctors that mis-read the tests should be reported to the medical council and have their authorisation to practice revoked

A lot of the problem in the health service is down to the civil service.

Professor Drumm was hired to run the health service on a day-to-day basis, he had been totally useless and has in fact made things worse, he is the one that should be fired.

As I've posted before, IMO this problem will take a very long time to fix. One can't measure progress by the number of times "The Heath Service" and HSE shows up in the news every day. Mistakes do happen and institutionalised systemic problems are very difficult to clear out. One thing Drumm is certainly guilty of, is not managing expectations.

A long-time HSE employee suggested that it will take 10 years to fix it, if it can be fixed. Systemic problems of this nature exist throughout the whole HSE. Although to be fair cancer treatment is one area where a plan exists and is being implemented according to best practice.

As for the question, politically it could be argued that she should. Realistically which FF halfwit could be let loose on it? She's doing them a favour and I doubt if anyone in FF wants "Angola". IMO she genuinely wants to make things better, however patchy that has been. If, as is likely, it is still in a mess, FF will just claim credit for whatever improvements have occurred and blame Harney for the rest that didn't get fixed.

xOxSinéadxOx

I know the HSE will taking about a million years to fix but she's doing **** all about it, at the same time I doubt any other member of the government would do a better job than her

ninty9er

is_that_so wrote: »

FF will just claim credit for whatever improvements have occurred and blame Harney for the rest that didn't get fixed.

I can't recall FF ever blaming Harney for anything that went wrong in Health. She is one minister that most definitely has the support of the vast majority on government benches.

She's the most important minister to have controlled health in a long time, not just for what's been done already, but for what's planned and the full intent to do it regardless of how it hits her popularity.

I'm of the belief that tough decisions pay off politically in the long run. For example; placing the burden of 3rd level fees back on the middle classes won't be popular, but I don't think you'll find any other party taking them back under state responsibility if they get into power. This means for all the moaning a different future government may do when in opposition, faced with the same circumstances, it would have done the same when it was in opposition. Once the people see this, it presents a more democratic electoral choice.