GARDA speed "traps" on motorway slip roads

buttsoirl

I have noticed lately the garda traffic core are hiding, and I do mean hiding on the blind side of a motorway/ring road/carraigeway bridges. stopping high up on the slip road leading down onto the road, and doing the speed checks from a hidden vantage point....

you cant even see them... they just come up behind you .. and thats you buggered... (literally)

now I thought the entire point of speed control, was for the traffic core to be a visible deterrent to speeders. cause if you know cops are on the road... you aint gonna speed..

but this hiding on the slip road...

is it

A) legal
b) could it be enough to get you off the offense in court

I havent been caught myself... just wondering if this is just something the cops are trying to get away with....

thoughts anyone?

Mr Magnolia

How or why do you think it may be illegal?

Also, they've been doing it for years.

OldmanMondeo

buttsoirl wrote: »

I have noticed lately the garda traffic core are hiding,
you cant even see them... but this hiding on the slip road...

is it

A) legal
b) could it be enough to get you off the offense in court

I havent been caught myself... just wondering if this is just something the cops are trying to get away with....

thoughts anyone?

They can't be doing such a good job at hiding then, if you have seen them on the motorway slip roads. And yes it is legal and No you would not get off a fine and points.
Good to see the traffic corp watching motorways and giving a visable deterant. Some may have noticed the Traffic corp Car / jeep parked on the "garda only points" on the M4 with no one in it. Seen many a car slow down very quickley.

John Mason

they were on the south bound M1 on Sunday afternoon, i could see them going north but you would have been able to see them going south but tbh there is no need to be speeding on the motorways, is there?

actually, there is no need to be speeding anywhere

tw0nk

OK, I agree with OP, another poster said that its good to see visible deterent from guards, but the fact is that it isn't visible, they are on the slip road ON to the motorway, thus when you are driving by them, they are behind you up a road and are there purely to make money.

I completely agree with checkpoints on roads with a garda standing with a tripod or whatever and catching out people, hundreds of cars passing by can see them and X number of those get caught too.

These gardai hiding up slip roads are only ever seen if someone breaks the limit and they come speeding(dangerously) after them.

Now what happens for the people who know about the spots is they speed happily along the motorway, I see this everyday, and then slam on the breaks to bring themselves just below speed limit at the point they become visible to gardai possibly looming on the sliproad.

Which is better? hundreds of people being reminded to watch their speed by visible speed checks or a few people getting caught and then modifying their driving to a dangerous new method?

Tigger

thats how i roll
fast on small roads because the cops can never see you#
fast on open stracehes of road
slow under bridges
slow near schools

i'm a product of my envirom,ent

i hope these new black spot gatsos will change that

cul-2008

Sorry folks, but I have to laugh at topics like this

The fact of the matter is that people are complaining that the Gardaí are catching them for speeding. God forbid they won't give you prior warning with flashing lights and an high-vis jacket :rolleyes:

In hindsight, people are saying that it's unfair to be caught for speeding!
Speeding is speeding. End of.

On a recent trip to Dublin Airport, driving an Audi 1.8T at a steady 120km/hr on the motorway, numerous cars, ranging from a Toyota Yaris to an Audi Q7, shot past me doing in excess of 140 km/hr.

I'm not saying I'm a goody-two-shoes by any means, but for someone who is doing 20-25km's over the speed limit, they deserved to be punished.

Great to see the Gardaí doing their job - we have it so easy in this country in comparison with our European counterparts.

pippip

I think I see where the original poster was going with this.

Surely they are not parked in a legal position...similar to how people say if the cop hasn't got his hat on when booking you that you could get off.

tw0nk

cul, I think you picked this up all wrong, we are not saying its right to speed or that people who get caught don't deserve it, they do! What we are saying is that this cloak and dagger methodology of catching people is ridiculous and contrary to what the gardai say they are trying to do.

Simple fact, if there was Gardai standing on every road in Ireland with a speed camera there would be very little speeding, that would be the ultimate goal, no speeding = less accidents.

If there were hidden Gardai on every road in Ireland people would speed as they did not know they were there and Government would make loads of money but people would still be speeding.

Mr Magnolia

I lose respect for them when I see them hiding just off motorways instead of being parked at accident blackspots.

If they were standing outside a school at 3pm on a weekday afternoon I'd applaud them.

cocoa

tw0nk wrote: »

cul, I think you picked this up all wrong, we are not saying its right to speed or that people who get caught don't deserve it, they do! What we are saying is that this cloak and dagger methodology of catching people is ridiculous and contrary to what the gardai say they are trying to do.

Simple fact, if there was Gardai standing on every road in Ireland with a speed camera there would be very little speeding, that would be the ultimate goal, no speeding = less accidents.

If there were hidden Gardai on every road in Ireland people would speed as they did not know they were there and Government would make loads of money but people would still be speeding.

or... there is not enough gardai to man every road in Ireland. If you can't see them when they are there, then you'll have to assume they're always there.

Also, what? Government make loads of money but people still speed? Can't say I see that one happening, people cop on fairly quick when they're suddenly losing money and/or their license...

tw0nk

cocoa, I respectfully disagree, the more time that passes without seeing a Garda the more I forget about their presence on the road.

On the latter question you had, thats what happens already, Govt make lots of money on speeding fines etc but you don't see the death totals or speeding offenses decreasing do you?

cocoa

tw0nk wrote: »

cocoa, I respectfully disagree, the more time that passes without seeing a Garda the more I forget about their presence on the road.

Well what would you prefer? I think we can probably agree that there is not enough gardai to watch every single road. If gardai are always visible, then people will speed the rest of the time. Do you want some roads to be safe, some of the time? I don't think you'd forget their presence after just once being caught by 'hiding' gardai...

tw0nk wrote: »

On the latter question you had, thats what happens already, Govt make lots of money on speeding fines etc but you don't see the death totals or speeding offenses decreasing do you?

What would you suggest instead? As it stands, both methods are used and if we take these statistics as law then neither is working...

lynchie

cul-2008 wrote: »

Sorry folks, but I have to laugh at topics like this

The fact of the matter is that people are complaining that the Gardaí are catching them for speeding. God forbid they won't give you prior warning with flashing lights and an high-vis jacket :rolleyes:

In hindsight, people are saying that it's unfair to be caught for speeding!
Speeding is speeding. End of.

On a recent trip to Dublin Airport, driving an Audi 1.8T at a steady 120km/hr on the motorway, numerous cars, ranging from a Toyota Yaris to an Audi Q7, shot past me doing in excess of 140 km/hr.

I'm not saying I'm a goody-two-shoes by any means, but for someone who is doing 20-25km's over the speed limit, they deserved to be punished.

Great to see the Gardaí doing their job - we have it so easy in this country in comparison with our European counterparts.

Well if your doing a steady 120 on the M50 northbound, then you are 20Km over the limit of 100km and 60km over the limit of 60km from Blanchardstown - M1, and as per your own words they deserve to be punished :)

tw0nk

what would I prefer? I thought that was obvious, I would prefer to see those Gardai out on the road they are monitoring speeds on so that everyone is reminded of their presence and those who are speeding get caught, you seem to think people dont get caught by the Gardai when they are out with speed camera in full sight, I can tell you from my daily commute they do.

You say that both methods are used and neither or working, I agree on that but what I dont agree on is a method that is clearly setup for money making and is sly approach taken by the people who are supposed to lead by example.

As for the point made by OP, Im not sure I would be allowed to park my car on the side of an on-ramp to a major motorway, are the Gardai allowed park wherever they want? I know the spots they have on motorways marked "for Garda use only" are made for that purpose but the side of on-ramps certainly are not.

geoff29

Sunday eve southbound on the M50 and then whatever road it becomes on the way to Wicklow, you know that hill you head up - a straight area that you can see a km ahead and everyone floors it on? It's just after a gentle left hander. Anyway, the cops are often out there and sure enough they were there on sunday eve - standing at the top in what I thought was plain view. I thought it was pretty fair really - they were giving people a sporting chance! And yet, everyone else seemed to keep the foot in except myself and the other trudgers who went to the left lane and hit the limit.

So, when I went by them at the top, it was two gardas, one looking through the tripod thing, the other standing behind him, as if giving moral support!

What I'm wondering is, how does this work? Is it a camera, and so would it have read all the plates of those cars? Anyone know? A recording device of some kind? I was going so slowly that I even had time to look for wires etc.! Didn't see any!!

Mr Magnolia

Also, the Gatso Van was visible on the M1 around Swords last week north-bound. People were braking hard this resulted in a knock-on braking affect and traffic slowed to around 50K/hr, this was also dangerous.

tw0nk

thats true, the braking effect when people see the Gardai, its dangerous but also funny as often if you can see them.... they have already clocked you.

I just want to add aswell that I think Gardai often do honestly give people a sporting chance, I mean if you are 5km/h over the limit they will let you off.

Mr Magnolia

geoff29 wrote: »

What I'm wondering is, how does this work? Is it a camera, and so would it have read all the plates of those cars? Anyone know? A recording device of some kind? I was going so slowly that I even had time to look for wires etc.! Didn't see any!!

I'm told those guns have a telescopic range. They may have been taking photos however, if you didn't see any leads they may have had to flag you down (if you were caught speeding).

Also, on the 'sporting chance' - I'm told they allow a minimum of 10%, don't rely on that though

drunkdaz

cul-2008 wrote: »

Great to see the Gardaí doing their job - we have it so easy in this country in comparison with our European counterparts.

Ah, you mean the same countries that have higher speed limits than us? Generally 130kph, 140 in bosnia and I sure in one more Baltic, 150 on certain streches in Italy, 160 is being tried in Austria, Germany we all know about. Even the UK is 70mph on all dual carraigeways, not just motorways. And in all of the above the roads are narrower and busier. Thats before you get onto where the enforcement is. I know there is major contraversy because one county in hte Uk has deployed its camera vans on the M4, where traffic tends to move along at 85mph, that is your +20kph.... I could go on, but you do seem to be stuck in a cul-de-sac.......

cocoa

tw0nk wrote: »

what would I prefer? I thought that was obvious, I would prefer to see those Gardai out on the road they are monitoring speeds on so that everyone is reminded of their presence and those who are speeding get caught, you seem to think people dont get caught by the Gardai when they are out with speed camera in full sight, I can tell you from my daily commute they do.

You say that both methods are used and neither or working, I agree on that but what I dont agree on is a method that is clearly setup for money making and is sly approach taken by the people who are supposed to lead by example.

I'm not disputing that people get caught with either method, I'm sure they do, but let's take a simple scenario. Say, government policy is never, ever to have 'hidden' gardai, and there's this road where you can see them a mile off. When gardai are there, safe, when not, unsafe.

Now let's say we had the same road, but government policy has changed, and both methods are used, gardai visible, safe, gardai invisible (there) safer than in the previous scenario, gardai not there, safer than in the previous scenario.

I honestly can't see how you can think that it's 'clearly set up for money making' when there is an obvious advantage to it. To be honest I think both methods should be used together, so there's a balance between reminding people the gardai are there, and not letting people get complacent when there's no gardai 'visible'...

tw0nk

it looks like we just plainly disagree with one another, my thoughts and musings wont change the way Gardai do things but I will say that on the stretch of road I travel on everyday I reckon its the casual users who get caught as everyone else knows where they can speed and where they might get caught.

The deployment of new camera vans on our roads at black spots will hopefully stop accidents at those black spots but I reckon the places (on the road I travel) where I most see the Gardai dont need speed checks as even if you are speeding 10-20km/h over the limit on these roads, the quality of the road means there are very few accidents if any.

cul-2008

lynchie wrote: »

Well if your doing a steady 120 on the M50 northbound, then you are 20Km over the limit of 100km and 60km over the limit of 60km from Blanchardstown - M1, and as per your own words they deserve to be punished :)

I quote myself when I said "On a recent trip...." - to suggest my journey TO dublin airport..apologies if I didnt make this clear, but then there are always one or two people who insist on taking the piss.

tw0nk, I agree to a certain extent about what your saying but what I'm trying to get accross is the fact that people feel they should be told when they are going to be caught breaking the law. To put this into comparrison, it's like a burgular giving out about being caught breaking into a house because he didn't see that the gardaí were waiting around the corner.

We all know if a garda is standing out on the road with his tripod people will resort to radical braking, causing some serious accidents - numerous of which I have witnessed. If the road user was to drive within the speed limit and apply caution where necessary then there should be no fear of him/her. The gardaí have even posted the locations of where they intend to monitor drivers speeds!

Mr Magnolia

cul-2008 wrote: »

To put this into comparrison, it's like a burgular giving out about being caught breaking into a house because he didn't see that the gardaí were waiting around the corner.

It's more like someone unknowingly wandering onto someones property while Securicor are patrolling the perimeter.

Sizzler

I have seen them hide behind one of those mobile advertising flat bed trucks (which was parked at the time!) approaching the M1. Cheeky you may say!
Shooting fish in a barrell springs to mind though, they are catching people on a 1 mile dead straight piece of dual carriageway which has inexplicably been dropped to 60kmh when it was previously 60mph.

On another note, interestingly enough in the UK the regulations state that fixed GATSO's must be hi-viz, but coppers with random speed checks can pretty much do what they want.

Davidth88

The gardaí have even posted the locations of where they intend to monitor drivers speeds!

They have indeed

http://www.garda.ie/sez/speed_enforcement_zones.htm

Guy:Incognito

pippip wrote: »

similar to how people say if the cop hasn't got his hat on when booking you that you could get off.

Those people are stupid and wrong so it doesnt really matter what they say.

bikki

cul-2008 wrote: »

Sorry folks, but I have to laugh at topics like this

The fact of the matter is that people are complaining that the Gardaí are catching them for speeding. God forbid they won't give you prior warning with flashing lights and an high-vis jacket :rolleyes:

In hindsight, people are saying that it's unfair to be caught for speeding!
Speeding is speeding. End of.

On a recent trip to Dublin Airport, driving an Audi 1.8T at a steady 120km/hr on the motorway, numerous cars, ranging from a Toyota Yaris to an Audi Q7, shot past me doing in excess of 140 km/hr.

I'm not saying I'm a goody-two-shoes by any means, but for someone who is doing 20-25km's over the speed limit, they deserved to be punished.

Great to see the Gardaí doing their job - we have it so easy in this country in comparison with our European counterparts.

U do realize that all speed ometers on every car are set 10% over the speed u are actually doing? They do this to avoid being sued.

So somebody blasting past u at 140 is only doing a few kilometers over the speed limit. And u my friend in reality are traveling well below it.

Also 140kph on a modern motor way in a modern car is well within safety driving limits.

daveharnett

bikki wrote: »

U do realize that all speed ometers on every car are set 10% over the speed u are actually doing? They do this to avoid being sued.

So somebody blasting past u at 140 is only doing a few kilometers over the speed limit. And u my friend in reality are traveling well below it.

Also 140kph on a modern motor way in a modern car is well within safety driving limits.

I don't know how many times i've seen this idea mentioned and debunked. I'm guessing you heard it from a mate in the pub, and assumed it was true, because you wanted it to be?

To misquote the boards motto, evidence or gtfo.

bikki

The 10% thing is true, my gps and electronic speedo on my Impreza tell me so. Its there to stop car manufactures from getting sued over speeding fines.

Its the same with every other car ive driven also.

But ur saying im wrong so prove that i am.

Tenzor07

I think this is relevant on the point of Visibity and was announced today by Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy, in relation to the new speed detection vans:

Mr Murphy said it is part of the new approach towards tackling speeding and deaths on roads.

Gardaí are now informing people as to where the speed checks will be so that they will voluntarily slow down, he added.