HSE & Breastfeeding Support

MoominPapa

What do people think of this? My partner sent away to the HSE for their breastfeeding support pack which included a bunch of info cards. This card, pdf version here, states that "One in every two women breastfeed their babies". This is contradicted by the HSE's Action Plan which states

The most up-to-date available breastfeeding
rates at national level are 39.11% exclusive breastfeeding plus 2.47% partial breastfeeding at maternity
hospital discharge in 2001

I have tried but failed to find figures in HSE or medical publications on bf rates after hospital discharge, say 3 or 6 months. There are plenty of stats bandied about like 2% here for example but figures like this mean nothing, 2% of babies bf at what stage - 1 year? 5 years of age?

But regardless the rate of bf will fall not rise after discharge so basically the HSE are distributing false information. If they want to round the figures that they should say 2 in 5 mothers breastfeed at discharge. But then the way its presented there is no indication that bf rates drop off massively after discharge, way before all the major benefits are granted to baby and mother, so the way they are presenting the information is disingenuous at best and the figure - well they contradict themselves.

With the likes of Finian McGrath grabbing headlines saying the HSEs 160,000 spend on bf awareness was a waste of money because

Most couples are well aware of the benefits of breastfeeding their child. It is common sense*

the HSE should be stating the facts, which include Ireland being bottom of the European Table when its comes to bf. They need to spend more money promoting bf and tell the truth while they're at it.

So what are the HSE playing at? How does this economical use of the facts benefit them? Or is this just another example of:

Arse, elbow



*its common sense that smoking is bad for you, whats the point of those gov warnings then?

silja

Can't help you, but maybe contact individual maternity hospitals for their stats? I remember when I had my 6 week checkup with the consultant, he asked me if I was still breastfeeding, and there was a ticky box he filled when I said yes.... presumably the info is going somewhere.

maniac101

MoominPapa wrote: »

I have tried but failed to find figures in HSE or medical publications on bf rates after hospital discharge, say 3 or 6 months. There are plenty of stats bandied about like 2% here for example but figures like this mean nothing, 2% of babies bf at what stage - 1 year? 5 years of age?

Not quite what you're after, but the national perinatal statistics are maintained by the ESRI. You'll find comprehensive reports, including heaps of numbers about breastfeeding patterns, age profiles and occupations of breastfeeders etc. here
The most recent data is for 2005. Note that these are PERINATAL stats only, but you could contact ESRI to see if anyone's recording longer-term numbers.

With the likes of Finian McGrath grabbing headlines saying the HSEs 160,000 spend on bf awareness was a waste of money because
the HSE should be stating the facts, which include Ireland being bottom of the European Table when its comes to bf. They need to spend more money promoting bf and tell the truth while they're at it.

So what are the HSE playing at? How does this economical use of the facts benefit them? Or is this just another example of:

Arse, elbow



*its common sense that smoking is bad for you, whats the point of those gov warnings then?

Frankly, I'd be surprised if most mothers who don't breast-feed were suffering from an information deficit. When my wife was having our kids we were bombarded from all sides with information about the benefits of breastmilk. If McGrath was critical of these information campaigns, it was probably because he rightly sees areas of childrens' health where the money could be better spent. Maybe a study into why women don't breastfeed might be more informative?

MoominPapa

I though it was pretty clear what I'm after, the HSE is supplying information which is blatently false and misleading. Why are they doing it? Whats in it for them? There are hugh benefits to children, mothers, health services and society in general if bf is taken up en mass. The HSE should be proactive in prompting and supporting bf for their own ends
The ERSI Perinatal Statistics, which I had found myself, are the same as the HSE Action plan so really don't add anything.
Exclusive bf is the best way to feed children up to six months according to WHO link. The stats that the HSE are using may make people think they are in some way successful in promoting and implementing WHO and their own Action Plans. They are absolutely not. Stats up to and beyond 6 months will give meaningful results and they are not readily available

When my wife was having our kids we were bombarded from all sides with information about the benefits of breastmilk

Yeah, same with us, but despite this my partner had a nurse in the maternity ward that didn't seem to understand feeding on demand and would wake my partner up giving out that she hadn't filled in her feeding chart with the number of ounces. Its not just mothers that need educating about bf(btw we reported her and she got moved)

If McGrath was critical of these information campaigns, it was probably because he rightly sees areas of childrens' health where the money could be better spent. Maybe a study into why women don't breastfeed might be more informative?

No he wasn't. As quoted he was wrongly stating that its common sense to bf therefore there is no need to promote it, yet, as you say, few babies are bf after discharge, therefore, its hardly common sense and the advice and support the HSE provides does not meet requirements and more and better support is required. The reasons for women not bf are well known - information (as always) is vital in countering these reasons , another study would really be a waste of time and money. For bf in this country to reach the levels it is at in say Norway will require a holistic approach from the entire society. The HSE bandying around bull**** statistics shows me that they are not currently part of the solution but if this because they are misguided or that they are just paying lip service and they don't give a damn?

maniac101

Well, given the language and tone of your posts, it's clear that you're very exercised about the issue!

If it's statistics that you're genuinely after, I can only repeat that the best place to start is the ESRI. If you had already found the perinatal data, then you may have noticed that they're also involved in the "Growing up in Ireland" survey. I'd imagine that breastfeeding of infants will be one of the statistics recorded. Why not ask them?

MoominPapa wrote: »

No he wasn't.

Oh yes he was! Here's the full quote, to be fair to Finian McGrath, rather than your abbreviated one from earlier!

"Most couples are well aware of the benefits of breastfeeding their child. It is common sense. This money could have been spent sending a child with a disability to a special school. The money would go a long way somewhere else."

He might be a bit of a muppet at times, but I agree with McGrath that, if given the choice of one or the other, spending money on children with disabilities has priority over wasting it on telling adults what they already know but choose to ignore.

nesf

MoominPapa wrote: »

No he wasn't. As quoted he was wrongly stating that its common sense to bf therefore there is no need to promote it, yet, as you say, few babies are bf after discharge, therefore, its hardly common sense and the advice and support the HSE provides does not meet requirements and more and better support is required.

But does spending loads of money on promoting it actually encourage a lot more people to breastfeed, who wouldn't, if the promotion hadn't existed? There is mostly likely a point where promotion stops having a big effect. I don't know the stats but it would be very interesting to actually see if these kinds of promotions (along with promotions of diet, exercise etc) are actually good value for money given that there are plenty of other areas that could do with funding.

tallaght01

In any hospital I've ever been in, the breast feeding promotion people have been nutcases.
Most paediatricians/obstetricians refer to them as "the breast feeding mafia" or the "breast feeding gestapo".

I wouldn't worry too much about the stats they give, as BF stats are a little bit unreliable. And breast feeding people have often quoted stats at me that are simply untrue,a nd result from A) a complete misunderstanding of stats ar taking any publishes research paper as "fact".
One in 2 mums probably do feed their baby at some point. Even if it's for 24 hours. But that doesn't mean a thing.

Ireland has the lowest rates in Europe I think, but I don't know off hand what the rates are.

BUt these stats vary wildly between the different ages of mums and the different socio-econimic status.

So, I wouldn't worry about it. If BF is right for you, your partner and your baby, then go for it. If it's not, then that's ok too.

deisemum

The money that's spent on promoting breastfeeding would be better spent on actually having someone available in post natal wards who can spend the time with new mums helping them establish breastfeeding and deal with any problems as they arise.

The midwives are often too busy to take the time that's needed when trying to establish breastfeeding. Helping someone to latch on correctly is so important and a lot of mums quit breastfeeding due to the pain of cracked nipples etc.

Also if PHN's made more than the typical 1 or 2 home visits once mum and baby goes home especially if they've gone home when the baby is only a day or 2 old and the milk hasn't come it.

I had my first child in London and there's so much support there compared to here. The PHNs do home visits every day for the first 10 days and officially they can call upto day 28 if you're having problems. They'll even make a cup of tea for you, they're very hands on. Then after that you can call to the clinics whenever you want.


I don't know how whoever is responsible for compiling figures get their figures for how long people breastfeed for. I reckon a lot of it's anecdotal as I breastfed mine until the first was 6 months and the second lad was 15 months and I've never been officially asked how long I nursed for.


What's shocking is how poorly educated some gps and other health professionals are when it comes to giving advice on breastfeeding problems.

Dfens

deisemum wrote: »

What's shocking is how poorly educated some gps and other health professionals are when it comes to giving advice on breastfeeding problems.

Yes, agreed. I'm BF my 4 month old at the moment but at about 1 month old he kept having fussy feeds & spluttering. My PHN was no use for providing any insight, search of web one night on a BF information site & I found that I had over-active let down - problem sorted in about 15 mins. When I told the PHN at my next visit she had never heard of this.

I think for Irish rates of BF to increase, it needs to become less of a taboo & become easier for moms to do while out & about without running the risk of 'offending' anyone or being stared at. Very few public places (like shopping centres) have dedicated BF areas & more often than not it's the provision of a chair in a disabled toilet

Often when we have been somewhere I have had to come out to the car to feed my son. Lately when we've been out for sunday lunches in hotles/pubs I've asked the staff is there a private place to feed & have always been accomodated so far (conference room etc) - I feel that if they want to create a 'family type' atmosphere to attract family customers then they should provide all the services for that, then there is a chance that little by little things will improve.

lostinnappies

maniac101 wrote: »

Frankly, I'd be surprised if most mothers who don't breast-feed were suffering from an information deficit. When my wife was having our kids we were bombarded from all sides with information about the benefits of breastmilk. If McGrath was critical of these information campaigns, it was probably because he rightly sees areas of childrens' health where the money could be better spent.

Ya some mothers cant breast feed.

I know i was one for my first and yet i was still bombared with all this information and repeated pushing from the medical profession as to why i wasnt, after repeating my self to so many people i just gave up and told them i was an alien and cotton candy comes out instead of milk. I think the "bombardment" as you call it, is too much and over kill. Simply put, one leaflet, a talk by your midwife on your 20 week scan and support afterwards is all that is needed. I swear the government is like a pushy parent, if they nag us enough we might just do it lol. not.

The countless hundereds of thousands of euros spent on RE-INFORMING us could be better spent in somewhere like the NICU imho

deisemum

I got very good support from the health professionals that I met in London but the best support I got came from others who'd breastfed their own children.

I had my second son here and assumed I'd have no problems breasfeeding as I'd done it before but it was a different baby and I did encounter the odd problem but knew it could be worked through.

I must say that my PHN was excellent, had breastfed 5 children herself and as often happens with babies it's during the night when problems can arise and the couple of times I phoned the post-natal ward at my local hospital I got great advice. I know there was a 3 day course on breastfeeding that midwives, PHNs and GPs attended in my area a while back. It was run so that all the health professionals had the same information and were all reading from the same page.

marti101

Im also bf my 7 month old son and i found the midwives a great help.I was with the Domino and they were great they kept us informed and if we needed any help they came also i think if you want to breastfeed you will.I know i was the only one my age breastfeeding and i thought that was awful,its not as if they tried and couldnt they just couldnt be bothered.

deisemum

I also think if you know people within your family or circle of friends you may be more willing to give it a go. If most or even all of your family and friends haven't breastfed it can be a bit more difficult to keep it going especially if you get a lot of negative and stupid comments about it.

When I think of some of the comments I got (13 years ago with first and nearly 11 years on my second) from family including my mother's classic that the older boy would end up gay if he saw me nursing the younger one. I got a dreadful time from the inlaws as sister in law had a baby a few days after I had my first and she bottle fed and they didn't want me upsetting her. Some people will "tolerate or humour" you breastfeeding for the first 3 or 4 months and then can be quite vocal against it.

It's nearly always been women who were negative, actually I never had a negative comment from men. In fact they've been the very positive ones not that they saw me nursing but knew I was, obviously heard some comments from women within the family. Coming from a farming background I guess my dad and brother could see the benefits similar to the cow and calf.

marti101

:DIts funny to think of now but at the time its very hurtful and especially from women who have never breasfed.I know nothing about bottlefeeding but i wouldnt go up and say stuff to them about why didnt you breastfeed.Im telling you that would be a funny story to tell the older boy now that granny thought you were turning gay cause you seen me breestfeed.Thats my sons wagoned then 12 and 13 now and im nursing their brother so hopefully it has a positive impact on them.They see the ads were the babies screaming and the people are waiting for the kettle and they say to me thank god the baby doesnt have to wait like that.

Dfens

deisemum wrote: »

When I think of some of the comments I got (13 years ago with first and nearly 11 years on my second) from family including my mother's classic that the older boy would end up gay if he saw me nursing the younger one.

My little man (4 Mo) has no hope so, he gets dressed in his older sister's pink babygros sometimes at home.....:D

witchity

Maybe the money could be spend else where, but it definitely should be spent in the area of breastfeeding awareness/support.

I was not bombarded with information at all. I wasnt even asked in the hospital when I had my son if I was going to breastfeed or not. I did choose to feed him myself and I got no help whatsoever. I asked one nurse for some help, and she hadnt a clue so I told her it didnt matter I would figure it out for myself.

I left the hospital the day after giving birth, still not really sure how to feed him. It was down to hard work and lots of support from partner that kept me going. My PHN was an absolute disgrace, and seemed more interested in whether I owned my own home or not, and what type of contraception I was using (she asked me this every time I saw her) and to be perfectly honest, I was not comfortable around her and most definitely would not have asked her for her help.

Apart from my partner I did find a HSE support group that I went to once a week. This was excellent, but under funded and the PHN could not actually sit and talk with the mothers as a group, which is what we all wanted, they could just weigh the babies, and the mothers spoke to each other for advise.

These are the kinds of areas that need funding. I luckily had a car and could drive to this centre, because my local health centre couldnt provide any support. If I hadnt been able to get to this group, there is a very good chance I would have given up, as I had no-one else to ask advise as nobody in my family ever breastfed their children.

I am still feeding my now 14 month old son, and would love to get involved in some groups to help other new mothers.

Quality

I agree with you witchity, There is a breast feeding clinic held by the HSE in my local area every week, It was great to be able to get your baby weighed weekly. Very reassuring. Also being able to talk to other mothers was good as well!!

Clinics like this would benefit mothers.

deisemum

I wasn't bombarded with info or put under any pressure to breastfeed when I had my 2nd lad. At his booking in appointment I was asked lots of questions to do with my pregnancy, labour and feeding of my first lad which I saw as helpful. When I was asked how I fed the first lad I replied that I'd breastfed him until he was 6 months when I returned to work. I was bemused when she replied "good girl" though.

I enjoyed attending the monthly breastfeeding support meetings in the post natal ward at my local hospital and also the meetings at the local clinic that was run by the PHNs.

Holiers

Top tip for those thinking of Breast feeding. Get a private lactation consultant. Have the person lined up before you have the baby. They call to see you at home and really know their stuff. Most see it as a vocation and charge very little, the lady who called to me only charged €50 for an hour and a half.


It seems like peoples experience varies hugely in hospital. I got fantastic attention in the Coombe. I went to the breastfeeding support group in the hospital twice. The first day I ended up with a one to one session with the midwife. The next day it was manic and not enough room for all who wanted to attend. Once I got home the Public Heath Nurses were great too (they called to my house about 8 times!). I live in a disadvantaged area, there isn’t enough demand for a breast feeding support group locally but it does mean the PHNs have more time to give to the breastfeeding Mums.

simu

Most nurses don't have a clue, in my experience. The internet's the best source of info - individuals are too biased and focused on their own particular experiences.