Ireland for Ireland!

zAbbo

Who cares if he's a knob, so were plenty of Irish players before him, some of our best as well, Roy Keane, Packie Bonner etc.

riflehunter77

I would like to see him back in the squad he has had a great start to the season with city and his confidence is growing big time at the moment. His vision at the weekend was brilliant. I know the chap may have had some problems in the past, but if we hope to qualfiy for major tournments we need all the players we can get.

gixerfixer

If we continue to look for him back i will blow a fuse. Yes he is a good player so what? He DOES NOT want to play for his country. I can not say what i think of him as i will prob get banned but i think most people in the country are of the same feeling towards him. Let it go as it's getting embarrassing at this stage.

Ronan|Raven

If he does not want to play for us he can go and stay where he is. Trap has made the offer to him, he has constantly turned it down. Leave him where he is.

Guy:Incognito

Xavi6 wrote: »

This is probably the sort of crap that made him quit


.

Ah bless him. The bigger boys slagged him did they?

Let him go work on a site for a few weeks and see cant he take worse for a fraction of what he earns as a footballer. (I know this is regarding international football but whos to say he wont do the same at city if someone slags him)

He deserved slagging for that ridiculous hair.

I'm firmly planted in the "leave petulant children alone" camp. He knows how to contact the fai/trappatoni if he wants to play for Irleand, if not, move on. In no way should anyone be begging or pleading with him to come back.

If he wasnt a city player you wouldnt give a crap about defending him.

_blank_

Stekelly wrote: »

If he wasnt a city player you wouldnt give a crap about defending him.

Indeed, and if he was, say, a United player I reckon young Xavi here would have the completely polar opposite view of Stephen Ireland as to the one he is currently expressing.

LuckyLloyd

zAbbo wrote: »

Who cares if he's a knob, so were plenty of Irish players before him, some of our best as well, Roy Keane, Packie Bonner etc.

Yeah, but they turned up and played. Is the difference.

zAbbo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Yeah, but they turned up and played. Is the difference.

Did they? I thought one of them buggered off when needed most ...

/me opens worm can

Guy:Incognito

zAbbo wrote: »

Did they? I thought one of them buggered off when needed most ...

/me opens worm can

So are we saying that if Roy had come up with some off the wall reason (instead of the perfectly same one of the place being run like a zoo during playttime) like his dog had kittens that there wouldnt have been te debate and everyone would have been happy for him to come and go as he pleased?

Why didnt someone just explain all that in the beginning?

LuckyLloyd

zAbbo wrote: »

Did they? I thought one of them buggered off when needed most ...

/me opens worm can

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Irrespective of the answer, as far as the WC Finals in 2002 are concerned - Roy Keane definitely spawned our participation in it.

flyswatter

I think we definitely need him back. He could be a key cog in midfield especially in the creative department.

CHD

Xavi6 wrote: »

Really? Why? For putting his club career ahead of a country career that for him was becoming more hassle than it was worth?

Look at how his City career as prospered since he hasn't had the extra baggage of international football. It was clearly the right decision for him and fair play.

All this 'he's a weirdo and more hassle than he's worth' bollox is pissing me off. He's never had an ounce of trouble at City and is enjoying his football now.

But you would say that Xavi.

Fact is he's been a stupid child in the past. Debating that is just lol.

Dr Bolouswki

The compassion and tolerance here is wonderful to behold - if its any reflection of attitudes in the Ireland camp, I'm incredulous that Stephen Ireland just doesn't bloomin'well buck himself up and run back to represent this great nation of friendly, understanding people - what greater honour could he have than that? Sure with his millions in the bank, what issues could he possibly have? What an ungrateful weirdo wretch. Who the hell does he think he is anyways having taste/style/humour different to "normal" people? What an attention seeking child he is with his so-called "fashion". He should totally just wear normal clothes, celebrate goals in the standard sliding or arms aloft manner and take part in a team endeavour with people who mock him and deride him cos its AN HONOUR to represent your country, regardless of how the people involved treat you or make you feel. He's obviously completely self centred - WE should never allow him back into OUR team.

noodler

Its stupid and irresponsible to mention the lieing about the Granny without mentioning the fact his girlfriend had a miscarraige (like the British press do all the time).

We can only guess what was going on in his head at the time but maybe he wanted to keep the media attention away from his girlfriend? It backfired horribly but I can't really judge-never went through that before with an entire nation keeping tabs on me.

Xavi6

Stekelly wrote: »

I'm firmly planted in the "leave petulant children alone" camp. He knows how to contact the fai/trappatoni if he wants to play for Irleand, if not, move on. In no way should anyone be begging or pleading with him to come back.

Who has been begging or pleading? Boards.ie users?

Stekelly wrote: »

If he wasnt a city player you wouldnt give a crap about defending him.

Des wrote: »

Indeed, and if he was, say, a United player I reckon young Xavi here would have the completely polar opposite view of Stephen Ireland as to the one he is currently expressing.

I wouldn't say polar opposite Des. In fact, I wanted Roy Keane to come back for the World Cup after the whole Saipan thing. Once he refused that then the knives were out from me.

If it was Shay Given, Damien Duff or Kevin Doyle in the situation I would be saying the same thing. I'm just glad his decision has benefitted his City career so much.

The Rooster

noodler wrote: »

Its stupid and irresponsible to mention the lieing about the Granny without mentioning the fact his girlfriend had a miscarraige (like the British press do all the time).

We can only guess what was going on in his head at the time but maybe he wanted to keep the media attention away from his girlfriend? It backfired horribly but I can't really judge-never went through that before with an entire nation keeping tabs on me.

That's one opinion you could have.

Another opinion would be that its "stupid and irresponsbile" to believe and repeat the "story" about a phantom miscarriage.

jimbling

Sorry for the long post, but felt I had to say a few things. So many attitudes on here are all wrong.

Stephan Ireland is obviously a troubled kid. Perhaps he is getting control of it now, but his issues have been widely reported. And they were in both the Ireland camp and the Man City camp. Xavi, I'm not sure why you're trying to argue that he has no problems, when it's pretty blatant that he does. You don't need pictures of goal celebrations, or a pinkly pimped cars to prove it.

There's nothing wrong with been a troubled kid.... half the world has issues, and the other half just pretend they dont :pac:

Man City sought to help him and guide him through it, mainly due to the fact they're paying him heaps of money and he's under contract. It seems it's paying dividends now.

But, in saying all that, every player, whether they're crap or genius.... solid or crazy as, should want to represent they're country. It's not about "owing the national team", it's about national pride. It should be the goal of every sportsman/woman to represent their country, and if that is the case, nothing should stop you from doing so.
Ireland obviously doesn't feel this way. It is a disappointment, but such is life.

Note: I am a huge Roy Keane fan, but still say that if it was him walking out (and not been sent home ) due to "whatever reasons", then he did the wrong thing. It's a selfish and childish thing to do.


As for this bullying story... it actually wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that there is some truth to it. Just seems like something that would happen.
Imagine if you turned up for soccer training one day with hairplugs. Imagine the ribbing you'd get. If all that happened was getting pinned on the floor and getting your hair ruffled you'd count yourself a lucky fck.
It's not nice, but to run and hide from it is a bit sad.


Now, to the miscarriage, I'm sorry... I'm with Alan on this one. I see no reason to believe that that's what happened. He made up some crazy lie, then another crazier lie.... finally he comes up with something that is plausible and we all accept it?? why?
Just feels like someone around him made sure the third lie was something that people wouldn't question. It's a taboo area... something you can't really prove to be a lie, and can't question publicly without coming across as a complete arsehole... perfect.


I do hope Stephan Ireland sees sense in the future and decides to come back and play for his Country. He is a talent, and we need him. There may be some misgivings, but he would without a doubt be welcomed back. One more chance to redeem himself.
I don't think we should be begging him to do so. It is his decision. One he will likely regret later in life if he doesn't re-join the squad.

Well, they're my feelings on the matter.... enough said :rolleyes:

Mr Alan

jimbling wrote: »

I'm with Alan on this one. It's a taboo area... something you can't really prove to be a lie, and can't question publicly without coming across as a complete arsehole.

i dont fall into that trap cause everyone already knows I'm an arsehole :cool:

JimiTime

jimbling wrote: »

But, in saying all that, every player, whether they're crap or genius.... solid or crazy as, should want to represent they're country. It's not about "owing the national team", it's about national pride. It should be the goal of every sportsman/woman to represent their country, and if that is the case, nothing should stop you from doing so.
Ireland obviously doesn't feel this way. It is a disappointment, but such is life.

Before he got his call-up, wasn't there murmerings from his camp that he could play for England or Italy? Not sure if that was just tabloid cr@p or not.
I think we can rule 'National pride' out of the Stephen Ireland scenario though. I think its obvious, Stephen Ireland is what matters to Stephen Ireland. I think its toys out of the pram stubborness. If he comes back to the team it would be great, not only because we'll be getting a talented player, but also that it will show a little bit of maturity on his part. The longer he lets it go, the more he'll find it difficult to return. Here's to hoping though.

Mitch Connor

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Which came first, the chicken or the egg? Irrespective of the answer, as far as the WC Finals in 2002 are concerned - Roy Keane definitely spawned our participation in it.

Logically, the egg.

Nalz

yes, the egg came first. Common knowledge that

noodler

The Rooster wrote: »

That's one opinion you could have.

Another opinion would be that its "stupid and irresponsbile" to believe and repeat the "story" about a phantom miscarriage.

Unbelievable.

Mr Alan

well put noodler.

bravo.

Pigman II

Tauren wrote: »

Logically, the egg.

But he was a chicken first, and only now does he look like an egg.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

well put noodler.

bravo.

Well what do you want? Biological evidence?

That goes beyond cynicism.

Mr Alan

no it doesnt, it goes down as common sense.

noodler

Well Im glad you and your little clique have made a decision and stuck to it.

Well done.

Mr Alan

my clique? i think you are confusing me with someone else.

i made that point at teh time of the incident, there is no possible reason other than stupidity that i would believe his excuse for leaving after him making up 2 lies before admitting what "actually" happened.

Then conveniently when admitting what actually happened, choosing something that is a taboo to question.

Also the fact that he has not come back into the Ireland fold since would further stregthen my point.

em i have to go home, my granny died.
-em steve, your granny didnt die?!
oh yea it was my other granny!
-em, no steve, she didnt die either
emmm, ehhhhh, emmmm, oh my girlfriend had a miscarriage actually! yea thats it
-ok, off you go.

months later:
-em Stephen, you ready to come back into the fold?
hell, no people slagged my hair! i'm not coming back

noodler

Im gonna leave this one here. Im not going to accuse some kid of faking a miscarraige.

Bubs101

Stephen Ireland has always striked me as being insanely stupid, even for footballers standards. I'd tend to forgive him for making up those lies, after all, he's not Lampard or Jamie Redknapp

stovelid

noodler wrote: »

Im gonna leave this one here. Im not going to accuse some kid of faking a miscarraige.

The thing is though, as horrible as a miscarriage is, it's just as easy to fabricate as a dead granny or a bullying claim. I guess nobody really knows at this stage.

And his perceived worth as a footballer seems to be growing with each refusal to play for Ireland. He's a decent midfielder - compared to what we've got - but let's not carried away.

Comparing him to Roy Keane, both in terms of Roy's justification for not returning to the squad and the extent that we needed him back, is plain stupid...

jimbling

stovelid wrote: »

And his perceived worth as a footballer seems to be growing with each refusal to play for Ireland. He's a decent midfielder - compared to what we've got - but let's not carried away.

His "perceived" worth as a footballer is growing due to his continuous growth as a player at Man City. It has nothing to do with his refusal to play for Ireland

OhNoYouDidn't

Johnny Utah wrote: »

That's not funny. A bit of banter is one thing, but blatent bullying is not on. Very unprofessional, but then what do you expect from the FAI.:rolleyes:

What on earth has it to do with the FAI?

The guy doesn't want to play for his country. He told multiple lies to the Irish management and has stated he doesnt want to come back. If you thing Trapp will entertain this clown you have another thing coming. He asked once. End of.

stovelid

jimbling wrote: »

His "perceived" worth as a footballer is growing due to his continuous growth as a player at Man City. It has nothing to do with his refusal to play for Ireland

Really?

In the minds of many of the pro-SI camp, he seems to have gone from being a decent (and improving) player at a middle-tier club, to some kind of amalgam of Zizou and Roy Keane that will lead us to the WC final if coaxed back into the squad.

Reality time: He is the most naturally gifted midfielder in a poor Irish squad. He is a good player (and making good progress at City) but not to the extent that it justifies Trap kissing his ar*e. If he wants back, great. If he doesn't, fuck him.

leiwand

Richard Dunne is the only one who probably knows the real story due to being involved in both camps.would love to know what he really thinks about stephen Ireland.

b.

Boggles

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

What on earth has it to do with the FAI?

The guy doesn't want to play for his country. He told multiple lies to the Irish management and has stated he doesnt want to come back. If you thing Trapp will entertain this clown you have another thing coming. He asked once. End of.

Yeah but that Irish management was Steve "Are those my Feet" Staunton and Bobby "I brought down BUPA" Robson.

A line should be drawn under that whole stupid period and clean slates for everyone, get the lad back he is quality.

OhNoYouDidn't

bruno72 wrote: »

Richard Dunne is the only one who probably knows the real story due to being involved in both camps.would love to know what he really thinks about stephen Ireland.

b.

reading his only comment on the subject, the answer is not much.

jimbling

stovelid wrote: »

Really?

In the minds of many of the pro-SI camp, he seems to have gone from being a decent (and improving) player at a middle-tier club, to some kind of amalgam of Zizou and Roy Keane that will lead us to the WC final if coaxed back into the squad.

Reality time: He is the most naturally gifted midfielder in a poor Irish squad. He is a good player (and making good progress at City) but not to the extent that it justifies Trap kissing his ar*e. If he wants back, great. If he doesn't, fuck him.

Fair enough if that is the case.... but I haven't seen anyone make comparisons like that... certainly not in this thread.

And I never said anyone should kiss his ass.... in fact I said the opposite....he should be only let back in if he realises that it is a privilege to play and represent your country.

stovelid

jimbling wrote: »

.he should be only let back in if he realises that it is a privilege to play and represent your country.

Agreed.

Maybe if we were in an easier group, he'd come back. He may have just be thinking: we're not going to qualify for the WC anyway; I'm staking a place at City, and will need to keep it if they splash out big time at Christmas and next year.

jimbling

stovelid wrote: »

Agreed.

Maybe if we were in an easier group, he'd come back. He may have just be thinking: we're not going to qualify for the WC anyway; I'm staking a place at City, and will need to keep it if they splash out big time at Christmas and next year.

I really really doubt that his reasoning is along those lines.

Mitch Connor

Boggles wrote: »

Yeah but that Irish management was Steve "Are those my Feet" Staunton and Bobby "I brought down BUPA" Robson.

A line should be drawn under that whole stupid period and clean slates for everyone, get the lad back he is quality.

And has since told Givens (understandably i suppose) that he didn't want to play and the fact Trapatoni has said he would like him in the squad but Ireland is yet to be included would indicate he doesn't want to play for Trapatoni either. Will we have to appoint either Sven Goran Eriksson or Mark Hughes as manager for SI to play for us again or something?

He was given a clean slate, and he has continued to snub the irish setup - how many times should we go groveling to him?

Mitch Connor

jimbling wrote: »

I really really doubt that his reasoning is along those lines.

Of course that was his thinking, when refusing selection for the games in the summer, before the takeover. Of course.

stovelid

jimbling wrote: »

I really really doubt that his reasoning is along those lines.

It's as reasonable a surmise as a grown man being afraid of a slagging over a hairpiece?

Mr Alan

Tauren wrote: »

He was given a clean slate, and he has continued to snub the irish setup - how many times should we go groveling to him?

i know! i know! i know!

none.

Johnny Utah

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

What on earth has it to do with the FAI?

The guy doesn't want to play for his country. He told multiple lies to the Irish management and has stated he doesnt want to come back. If you thing Trapp will entertain this clown you have another thing coming. He asked once. End of.

Sorry, I wasn' having a go at John Delaney and co, I meant to say FAI management. Look at the difference between how City are able to handle him as opposed to how the FAI have managed players down through the years. SI isn't the first difficult player to line out for his country and he certainly won't be the last. All I'm saying is that you have to accomodate certain people in life, and provide adequate man-management to get the best out of them. If SI was more trouble than he was worth, then City would have sold him off a long time ago.


Furthermore, its been widely reported by ex-players that the Irish camp has been a shambles at times, so it wouldn't surpirse me if the bullying rumours were true, which would be very unprofessional for all involved (and I include the management team if they had knowledge of this). Having said that, all we have is hearsay and conjecture at the moment, so nobody can really say what exactly went on or accuse SI of not wanting to play for his country. On one hand, you say you don't believe him about the miscarriage, but at the same time you don't believe bullying occurred, and at every opportunity you want to slag him off for his car- seems to me that you just don't like the guy. There's plenty of footballers with equally ridiculous cars; I remember watching that documentary on Beckham in Spain, for example, and he had ridiculous chrome wheels on most of his cars with no 23 emblazoned in the seats, etc. Wouldn't be my taste, but I wouldn't hold it against someone or label them as 'weird'- live and let live.

stovelid wrote: »

In the minds of many of the pro-SI camp, he seems to have gone from being a decent (and improving) player at a middle-tier club, to some kind of amalgam of Zizou and Roy Keane that will lead us to the WC final if coaxed back into the squad.

Reality time: He is the most naturally gifted midfielder in a poor Irish squad. He is a good player (and making good progress at City) but not to the extent that it justifies Trap kissing his ar*e. If he wants back, great. If he doesn't, fuck him.

I don't think anyone is comparing him to Keane or Zidane, and tbh we'd be lucky to even make WC 2010.

Mitch Connor

Mr Alan wrote: »

i know! i know! i know!

none.

I dunno - maybe the answer is 42:D

Boggles

Tauren wrote: »

how many times should we go groveling to him?

What do you mean we? Me and U Like?

stovelid

Tauren wrote: »

Of course that was his thinking, when refusing selection for the games in the summer, before the takeover. Of course.

Fair point, although IIRC, we've played two qualifiers games since news of the City takeover broke. I meant his reasoning for ever coming back during this qualifying campaign.

DeadSkin

Wierd????? Who gives a flying f*ck how wierd he is?
Just a shame he's a handy player with a few mental issues that he can't seem to get sorted.
Would agree with folk here saying, the longer he leaves it to return to the Irish squad the tougher he'll find it to return.

Mitch Connor

Boggles wrote: »

What do you mean we? Me and U Like?

Well Staunton, Givens, Brady, Trapatoni and Sven have had no luck so far, sure why not?