Speed trap detectors - Legal in Ireland?

Orange_Iris

Obviously the big motoring news of the past few days is the ramp up of speed checks around the country. It came up in conversation that someone in the know "who played golf with a friend of a relative type thing" was aware this was going to happen in advance bought themselves a Speed Trap Detector. In the UK these are quite common and it has been upheld in court that they are fully legal to own and to use.

So here's the question: Are they legal to own and use in Ireland? If it's legality is not clear are there any precedents set?

BoardsRanger

legal to have - illegal to use

Orange_Iris

Hmmm... that's an interesting catch 22 type situation.

How do you explain to the Garda that just pulled you over that it's legal to own but not to use? However this one is perfectly legal because it has never been used, it's just dashboard furniture.

Can anyone provide a link to anything related to this?

BoardsRanger

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1991/en/si/0050.html

definately a catch 22. however, i might know of a person who has one fitted into the bonnet of his/her car. it beeps when a gatzo/gun is in range. not likely to be discovered by a guard.

Orange_Iris

Thanks for the speedy reply! From the link BoardsRanger provided...

4. A person shall not use in a public place a mechanically propelled vehicle to which is fitted, or in or on which is carried, a speed meter detector whether or not such device is actually in use.

Well, I guess that is pretty much case closed... Unless the statutes change I guess.

A hidden device you say? If it can't be found it can't get you in trouble? Interesting stuff. There is also a list of the latitude/longitude co-ordinates of the permanent speed check locations on the Garda website somewhere. If one were to have a satnav device with this list of locations loaded onto it as points of interest perhaps that could skirt around this issue too...

Run_to_da_hills

Its a wonder the latest mobile phones don't come equipped with these things built into them

Orange_Iris

Well... since you brought it up, there are speed trap detector programs available for smart phones with GPS capabilities.

Run_to_da_hills

Orange_Iris wrote: »

Well... since you brought it up, there are speed trap detector programs available for smart phones with GPS capabilities.

It could probably work both ways, I.E. the authorities could pick up a record of the times and co ordinates that you have been using it from your service provider. :eek:

Knocked on the head already.

Orange_Iris

I don't quite follow what you are trying to say. What exactly would the authorities be checking?

It also seems such programs are available as downloads or plugins for most commercial satnav devices. Some however require a monthly paid service to keep the data up to date.

eringobragh

Orange_Iris wrote: »

Obviously the big motoring news of the past few days is the ramp up of speed checks around the country. It came up in conversation that someone in the know "who played golf with a friend of a relative type thing" was aware this was going to happen in advance bought themselves a Speed Trap Detector. In the UK these are quite common and it has been upheld in court that they are fully legal to own and to use.

So here's the question: Are they legal to own and use in Ireland? If it's legality is not clear are there any precedents set?

Good luck to him unless he has a decent RD like a V1, etc he's toast. The new vans are using the Robot MultaRadar C. Its horizontally polarised radar (K band). But low powered, so harder to detect. Cheapy detectors will have difficult picking this up over 100 metres at best!!

Run_to_da_hills

Orange_Iris wrote: »

I don't quite follow what you are trying to say. What exactly would the authorities be checking? .

Just taking the pi*s, if they are illegal to use they could check up on service provider records if they wanted to thats if it uses the network.

Orange_Iris wrote: »

It also seems such programs are available as downloads or plugins for most commercial satnav devices. Some however require a monthly paid service to keep the data up to date.

I heard of those but I think they only work effectively with still cams. It's Armageddon in the UK at the moment with so many Gatos, and they just got this new one in which is supposed to be the mother of all. I don't blame them in the UK for this cat and mouse carry on with these devices.

http://www.clearlicence.co.uk/speed_traps/supergatso.html

Seth Brundle

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Its a wonder the latest mobile phones don't come equipped with these things built into them

Phones (with maps) and sat nav systems which have speed camera locations in theory are illegal to use in the car.

3. In these Regulations, "speed meter detector" means any device which is capable of being used to indicate the existence of, or to frustrate the operation of, electronic or other apparatus being used to give indications from which the speed at which a person was driving can be inferred.

I guess that technically, my laptop in the back is illegal because I can (with internet access) find out the locations of cameras over the internet!

SV

Ridiculous law really...

Have to make the gatsos visibile but can't have something which tells you where they are..mhm..

Run_to_da_hills

ClioV6 wrote: »

Ridiculous law really...

Have to make the gatsos visibile but can't have something which tells you where they are..mhm..

It is stupid and typically Irish just like our current TV licence which could technically make it an offence to stream TV on your laptop or 3G mobile phone without a license. Australia and Canada have similar laws against radar detectors. In the USA its legal because they are considered a receiving device and not a transmitter. One is required by the FCC to hold a license for any transmitting devices with the exception of 27MHZ CB Radio, smaller blue tooth, wifi devices cell phones etc.

golfpaul

BoardsRanger wrote: »

legal to have - illegal to use

I think that is a myth. I remember a case in Galway. Found it see below:
http://www.galwayadvertiser.ie/dws/story.tpl?inc=2005/12/15/news/26427.html

cormie

http://www.kmph.co.uk/index.asp

These guys state that everything they sell is legal to own and use in Great Britain..

BoardsRanger

golfpaul wrote: »

I think that is a myth. I remember a case in Galway. Found it see below:
http://www.galwayadvertiser.ie/dws/story.tpl?inc=2005/12/15/news/26427.html

no, they are still legal to have, outside a mechanically propelled vehicle

What about laser jammers. They are basically laser garage door openers and are even fitted to some high end cars like the Bentley GT as standard(for opening garage doors;)). So if I fit one to my car "for opening the garage door" and it just happens to diffuse garda laser guns where would I stand legally?

TheNog

Selene Obedient Quote wrote: »

where would I stand?

anywhere ye like, its a free country

Seth Brundle

If you are jamming a signal and the gardai can figure out that its you then I think they would be able to do you for possibly a number of things such as obstruction of justice

TheNog

kbannon wrote: »

If you are jamming a signal and the gardai can figure out that its you then I think they would be able to do you for possibly a number of things such as obstruction of justice

It would be very hard to prove. The instrument would have to be constantly switched on and a guard would have to prove the driver knew it could affect the laser guns. Even at that sometimes it is just difficult to get a lock on a car especially when the lights are on and its getting dark or is already dark. So hard to know if a person is jamming you or not.

r3nu4l

kbannon wrote: »

If you are jamming a signal and the gardai can figure out that its you then I think they would be able to do you for possibly a number of things such as obstruction of justice

Speaking of Jamming, I love the tune in the video at the bottom of this page

Mind you, it would be blindingly obvious you were using the device!!! Not sure I'd like that!

Johnathon

I travel alot and in some of the states radar/laser detectors are illegal. I run a passport 9500, one of the best detectors out there. Whenever I go into states where it is illegal to have one, I put it as low as I can on my dashboard and cover it up with a tee shirt so you can't see it from the sides. If a cop was on the side of the road, it would just look like I had a shirt on my dashboard. If I saw they pulled out behind me, I would pull it down quickly and hide it. I've never had any problems.

As far as laser detectors go, your generally not going to be able to pick them up in time, even with a good detector. The only way I've heard you can pick them up is if they hit a car in front of you and the laser "splashes" off of that.

From what I've heard, laser jamers generally don't work very well with the better laser guns. I know that Escort makes a laser jammer to go with my detector I own from them, but they are expensive and I really don't need it as it is illegal to use them where I live.

ottostreet

a friend of mine has one in his fto. guards have spoken to him about it before. nothing legal has come of it. think he was just given out to. told me he told one guard once it was for radio reception. and they believed him. lol

I.S.T.

kbannon wrote: »

Phones (with maps) and sat nav systems which have speed camera locations in theory are illegal to use in the car.

I disagree with you there. The majority of locations are mobile so having these locations stored on your sat nav is just a historic record of where the guards stood at some point in the past. It is not a detector and does not indicate to you that the camera is definitely there. As for the "fixed" cameras, I think there are 3 actual cameras which are rotated between the 18 locations (grey Gatso boxes). You are not being notified if there is actually a speed camera there, just a notification of a grey box which may or may not contain a speed camera.

pa990

eringobragh wrote: »

The new vans are using the Robot MultaRadar C. Its horizontally polarised radar (K band). But low powered, so harder to detect. Cheapy detectors will have difficult picking this up over 100 metres at best!!

I thought Vertically polarized were more difficult to detect ?
Is it lower powered than the gatso 24 that they had before?

LegacyUser

Originally Posted by kbannon
Phones (with maps) and sat nav systems which have speed camera locations in theory are illegal to use in the car.

We had this checked out by solicitors and they are of the view that a sat-nav device is not a speed meter detector within the meaning of the 1991 regulations.

A database of locations does not enable a sat-nav device to detect a speed camera but merely indicate that there has, at some point in the past, been a speed camera in that location. It cannot detect the presence of a speed camera at any particular moment, nor can it send out a signal to jam or frustrate the operation of a speed camera.

If the legalisation was to be interpreted any differently it would efffectively criminalise all sat-nav devices as they are capable of storing this information irrespective of whether or not they actually contain speed camera locations.

It is exactly for these reasons why it is illegal to supply, install and use a vehicle on a public road that has a radar or laser detector device fitted whether or not that radar or laser detector device is in use.

eringobragh

pa990 wrote: »

I thought Vertically polarized were more difficult to detect ?
Is it lower powered than the gatso 24 that they had before?

Not sure but the detection range on the MultaRadar is less of the GATSOs

redfan

ok guys lets think about this. from the safty point of veiw of everyone.
if a guy got 6 0r 8 points on his licence and gets a dectector . surly he will drive a bit more carfully.?
around town at least where theres more people/kids. anyways..
i had one to try out . beeping every 2 mins hahaha anoying bugger,

BoardsRanger

redfan wrote: »

ok guys lets think about this. from the safty point of veiw of everyone.
if a guy got 6 0r 8 points on his licence and gets a dectector . surly he will drive a bit more carfully.?
around town at least where theres more people/kids. anyways..
i had one to try out . beeping every 2 mins hahaha anoying bugger,

have to disagree- people will just slow down when they hear a beep and speed up after.also, they might actually feel more confident to go faster in the presumption that they are not going to get caught.
another point is, most speed checks are in areas which are somewhat safe and so having a speed detector will not make a person drive more carefully on the actual dangerous roads!

redfan

well if i had 6 points on my licence and need the car for work etc.. id be dam fcukn carefull lol.
but i see your point.
i blame it on the boy racers

is there any sites anyone knows what sells all these gadgets id love to know what other cool devices there are out there