Neotion MPEG4 Cams - IDTV Ready List (NP4)

Ninjakettle

Well I bought a Viaccess NP4 CAM today so i'll get to try this out in a couple of weeks when home.

Out of interest, is there any difference between the Viaccess and conax brands - are they just rebranded Neotion CAMs?

dingdong1234567

psham wrote: »

just got conax NP4 cam for my samsung on egay.. sat4eire, fellow n waterford..
works perfectly..

Cheers for the feedback.

STB

Ninjakettle wrote: »

Well I bought a Viaccess NP4 CAM today so i'll get to try this out in a couple of weeks when home.

Out of interest, is there any difference between the Viaccess and conax brands - are they just rebranded Neotion CAMs?

Viaccess and Conax are encryption systems. It means that they also take a subscription card for commercial services, should one exist....

Ninjakettle

Cheers STB. I hear you. So given that the DTT signal in Eire isn't encrypted, it shouldn't matter which one we use. So say in a year or two setanta make themselves available over DTT, they may use Conax or Viaccess or something else?

So would it be fair to say there's no way of future proofing?

Also, despite the different encryption systems, are they the same in every other regard - i'm wondering if the Viaccess doesn't work then maybe the conax will.

J

The_Conductor

Ninjakettle wrote: »

Cheers STB. I hear you. So given that the DTT signal in Eire isn't encrypted, it shouldn't matter which one we use. So say in a year or two setanta make themselves available over DTT, they may use Conax or Viaccess or something else?

So would it be fair to say there's no way of future proofing?

Also, despite the different encryption systems, are they the same in every other regard - i'm wondering if the Viaccess doesn't work then maybe the conax will.

J

Boxer, who have the commercial DTT licence, habitually use Viaccess encryption in other countries they operate in- its a reasonable assumption they will do likewise here.

Darth Maul

Just a question for those with the Neotion Cams, how are ye finding them?
I have one going here on a Samsung and I find it a bit troublesome, seems to get fairly hot and a few times I had to take it out ond reinsert it to get it going (recognised) again, picture can look a bit blocky at times and can take a good while for the picture to come up after switching channels, not sure if these problems are related to the fluctuating power that Truskmore is throwing out or is it the Cam itself. let us know how everyone else is getting on. oh and is it normal that a cam can be inserted the wrong way around, my cam will slide in either way but will obviously only work when inserted one way.

The_Conductor

Darth Maul wrote: »

Just a question for those with the Neotion Cams, how are ye finding them?
I have one going here on a Samsung and I find it a bit troublesome, seems to get fairly hot and a few times I had to take it out ond reinsert it to get it going (recognised) again, picture can look a bit blocky at times and can take a good while for the picture to come up after switching channels, not sure if these problems are related to the fluctuating power that Truskmore is throwing out or is it the Cam itself. let us know how everyone else is getting on. oh and is it normal that a cam can be inserted the wrong way around, my cam will slide in either way but will obviously only work when inserted one way.

Blocky picture is most probably a signal strength issue- you need a very good signal to ensure you don't get pixilation etc.

Re: hot- thats an understatement. We've two different ones here- you won't actually get a burning smell- but you're this side of having the plastic casing starting to melt. They get incredibly hot......

coffee to go

Just a quick post to confirm it's working on a Samsung LE40M87BD (The N series are listed at the start of the thread, so handy to know that the M series are working too). (Mods can add this to the existing list if they want).

To Darth, ya sometimes ours can take a few seconds to show a channel after changing stations and you can get the odd moment of stuttering or blocking. I don't think it's a signal issue, as we have 95% quality here, so prob just a few glitches in the transcoding between the card and the Samsung.

Overall, I'm very happy with it, and not having to need another STB is definitely a big plus.

snaps

Ive a philips 42PFL5603D/10 which is popular over here. Im wondering if any of these MPEG4 cams will work with it?

maxg

Do a new full scan at your lcd. If you don't get the irish channels in the channel list anymore a neotion cam makes no sense.
There was a change in the service data for the ROI channels.

snaps

Yeah they are still coming in minus TV3 which is just a carrier but no audio. Infact my TV now says incompatible video on TV3.

The_Conductor

Ignore the TV3 anamoly. RTENL are doing some sort of tests at the moment.....

STB

snaps wrote: »

Yeah they are still coming in minus TV3 which is just a carrier but no audio. Infact my TV now says incompatible video on TV3.

That phillips model with a d is not suitable for picking up DTT (its a uk model, but you know that). The neotion cam doent support that model fom what I can see.

Philips
32PFL7862D/10
42PFL7862D/10
47PFL9532D/10
32PFL9632D/10
37PFL9632D/10
42PFL9632D/10
47PFL9632D/10
52PFL9632D/10
37PFL9732D/10
42PFL9732D/10
47PFL9732D/10
42PFL9900D/10

Reading between the lines of what maxg is saying the current thinking is that the neotion cams are not seen as a solution by RTE. That in effect means they are redundant. The whole idea of that product is to allow transcoding. That data is being transmitted for the purposes of not allowing idtvs (that can be saved simply with this cheap product) receive the signal to transcode in the first place is ridiculous.

I would hold off buying a neotion cam until there is further clarification on this (even if your idtv is compatible).

The_Conductor

STB wrote: »

Reading between the lines of what maxg is saying the current thinking is that the neotion cams are not seen as a solution by RTE. That in effect means they are redundant. The whole idea of that product is to allow transcoding. That data is being transmitted for the purposes of not allowing idtvs (that can be saved simply with this cheap product) receive the signal to transcode in the first place is ridiculous.

I would hold off buying a neotion cam until there is further clarification on this (even if your idtv is compatible).

I disagree- the idtvs comply with European standards. RTE can't just bugger off and do their own thing- aside from anything else- it would be prohibitively expensive. Time will tell of course.....

STB

I dont disagree with you. If half of what has been said here in the last few days is true as regards the thinking on network identifiers being used to stop mpeg2 idtvs from scanning and finding video signal they cant display totally ignores that in many instances these idtvs can be updated with a cheap pcmia card. Not everyone want a stb. That there are legit products that have become casulaties of this move because they dont fully comply with the spec but still receive the MPEG4 transmissions through a common processor cant be ignored. And all for the sake of positioning protocol at border areas...

Hopefully sense will prevail at the end of this testing phase.

watty

The CAM converter approach needs the TV to able to at least scan& store and receive sound.

The priority for RTENL is not disturbing UK viewers. This is not a service but test.

I always said that IMO the CAM was a bad idea (I tested Neotion pocket Duo before anyone else had one here). A set-box also is time to have Tivo/Sky+ PVR features and home snaps/Video digital playback rather than VHS or Analogue based DVD/HDD recorders.

snaps

Phillips support rang me yesterday & they said that none of there TV's will work with a MPEG4 cam. I dont actually know if the guy i spoke with knew what mpeg4 was?

Ninjakettle

Just a note to say the CAM works in my LE26a457.
It takes a few seconds to switch between channels, but it's a huge improvement over our analog signal.

MBSnr

A friend got one of these Viaccess MPEG4 Card and and I borrowed it to try on my TV with the DTT signal from Maghera. I can confirm it works in a Sony KDL-32S3000. The channel change is slow and the pic can be blocky but I am running from a VHF aerial and not a UHF aerial.

Darth Maul - It looks to be your CAM. My one gets fairly hot and you could easily insert it the wrong way round into the TV. I think the pic will stutter/go blocky even if I had a decent UHF aerial as the signal strength is fairly good when I tested it. It's just the nature of them as they are addons processing the picture instead of build in decoders. Having said that the pic is as good as the Irish channels on Sky (via scart) when it isn't being blocky/stuttering. It seems to do it more when I first change to a new channel or access the TV menus.

STB

MBSnr wrote: »

A friend got one of these Viaccess MPEG4 Card and and I borrowed it to try on my TV with the DTT signal from Maghera. I can confirm it works in a Sony KDL-32S3000. The channel change is slow and the pic can be blocky but I am running from a VHF aerial and not a UHF aerial.

Darth Maul - It looks to be your CAM. My one gets fairly hot and you could easily insert it the wrong way round into the TV. I think the pic will stutter/go blocky even if I had a decent UHF aerial as the signal strength is fairly good when I tested it. It's just the nature of them as they are addons processing the picture instead of build in decoders. Having said that the pic is as good as the Irish channels on Sky (via scart) when it isn't being blocky/stuttering. It seems to do it more when I first change to a new channel or access the TV menus.

A booster should stabilise the signal...... too much gain and you will start pulling in all kinds of stuff.

alke

not sure if you know but boxer have pulled out of the irish dtt setup and it's been given to Onevision a consortium of TV3, Setanta, Eircom and Arquiva. and I found this bit of info relating to conditional access modules on their proposal pdf.

Conditional Access:

Setanta has extensive experience in the selection and evaluation of possible conditional access (CA) providers
and has chosen to work with Nagravision in the UK to encrypt their Sports channel, to meet premium content
rights holders’ stringent requirements. The consortium is delighted to be bringing this experience on CA to the
table giving the content owners assurance that only those that should be receiving the services are receiving
them and guaranteeing the customers a stable and safe platform.
OneVision has also been talks with Irdeto, Latens and Viaccess to evaluate alternative CA solutions to best fit the

consortium.

for their entire proposal see HERE

also anyone know of any JVC tv's working with the neotion cam?

more specificaly the JVC LT-32DA8BJ

ei9go

I have a JVC LT-19DA9BJ and it's working with the cam.

It was very poor, very bad loss of audio sych and looked like it was running at about 10 frames per sec.

However, for the last month it is extremely good and i can only assume that RTENL have changed something.

My signal level has not changed. In the DTV setup, I have 75% signal and 100% quality.

There are 3 other versions of this TV which I assume will work with the cam.

LT-42DA9BJ
LT-32DA9BJ
LT-26DA9GJ

The_Conductor

ei9go wrote: »

I have a JVC LT-19DA9BJ and it's working with the cam.

It was very poor, very bad loss of audio sych and looked like it was running at about 10 frames per sec.

However, for the last month it is extremely good and i can only assume that RTENL have changed something.

My signal level has not changed. In the DTV setup, I have 75% signal and 100% quality.

There are 3 other versions of this TV which I assume will work with the cam.

LT-42DA9BJ
LT-32DA9BJ
LT-26DA9GJ

On a Sony W series with a CAM- its the inverse- it was awful, now lip sync has improved noticeably. Bit rate appears to have dropped significantly though (frame rate same).

Souriau

Hello
I am reading this messages and some of you say CAM but not saying which manufactor or verson of it
I bought a Pocket NP4 MPEG 4 Conax Cam and this did not work on any of my iDTV
Humax, Philips, Toshiba and Technika.
On the Humax iDTV I had all 4 channels from RTENL MUX, RTE1, RTE2, TV3 and TG4
Since I put in the Pocket NP4 MPEG 4 Conax Cam, It then removed the TV channels from RTENL MUX like it is no longer there but the RTE radio are still there. it have not affect any of my UK freeview channels.

Can anyone tell me where am I receiving the RTE from,

RTE 1 - UHF 40
RTE 2 - UHF 43
TV 3 - UHF 46
TG 4 - UHF 50
RTENL - UHF 47 digital mux

Thanks

The_Conductor

Souriau wrote: »

Since I put in the Pocket NP4 MPEG 4 Conax Cam, It then removed the TV channels from RTENL MUX like it is no longer there but the RTE radio are still there.

I.e. your TV has an MPEG4 tuner onboard already- and does not need to use a CAM to decode the MPEG4 signal down to an MPEG2 stream for your set. Remove the CAM- and see if the channels come back.

snaps

Seems like Cairn Hill

Souriau

smccarrick wrote: »

I.e. your TV has an MPEG4 tuner onboard already- and does not need to use a CAM to decode the MPEG4 signal down to an MPEG2 stream for your set. Remove the CAM- and see if the channels come back.

No All the iDTVs I have are UK Freeview spec, with MPEG-2 and MHEG-5

Souriau

snaps wrote: »

Seems like Cairn Hill

Where is Cairn Hill locate?
does anyone know the grid reference for this transmitter side?
I am in Co Down and I received this transmitter signal.

Stephen

Anyone tried one of these devices on a Sony KDL-32V4000? Someone posted asking the same question earlier in the thread but that was last year!

We have a new-ish Samsung 40" series 5 TV here and its picking up RTE DTT from Mt Leinster without any add-on cams or set top boxes or anything. Looks beautiful. My poor Sony though only does MPEG-2.

The_Conductor

Stephen wrote: »

Anyone tried one of these devices on a Sony KDL-32V4000? Someone posted asking the same question earlier in the thread but that was last year!

We have a new-ish Samsung 40" series 5 TV here and its picking up RTE DTT from Mt Leinster without any add-on cams or set top boxes or anything. Looks beautiful. My poor Sony though only does MPEG-2.

Works fine on all Sony V and W series sets. Some problems reported with slight lag between picture and audio- but I think those probs have been ironed out.

S.

Stephen

Nice one, must get my hands on one

Thanks.

Stephen

Picked up one of these today but having a spot of bother. TV detects that the cam is inserted and I can go into its menu and enable or disable MPEG-4. I see the EPG and stuff but no picture. Occasionally there's a bit of a pixelated mess and a blurt of sound but usually nothing. If I switch back to analogue I have excellent RTE1/2 reception and crappy TV3/TG4. There is a Samsung TV with built-in MPEG-4 connected to the same aerial and DTT works fine on it. Anyone got any ideas?

The_Conductor

Stephen wrote: »

Picked up one of these today but having a spot of bother. TV detects that the cam is inserted and I can go into its menu and enable or disable MPEG-4. I see the EPG and stuff but no picture. Occasionally there's a bit of a pixelated mess and a blurt of sound but usually nothing. If I switch back to analogue I have excellent RTE1/2 reception and crappy TV3/TG4. There is a Samsung TV with built-in MPEG-4 connected to the same aerial and DTT works fine on it. Anyone got any ideas?

The receiver could be a lot weaker than the one in the Samsung? Are the two clean signals you're pulling in VHF or UHF? Tbh- it sounds like your signal strength isn't sufficient?

Have a look at the Samsung- if you don't have over 50% signal strength on DTT on the Samsung- you will have problems getting a signal lock on the Sony (its a bit of a rough and ready signal check- but its pretty accurate).

Suggest- feeding the signal through an amp- even a low power 20-30db amp should clean up the signal sufficiently?

S.

Stephen

There's something funny going on. I ran a great big dirty coax cable from the aerial outlet at the Samsung TV down to the Sony one and everything works fine through the MPEG-4 CAM. I guess there's dodgy with the wiring in the attic.

Also, even more mysteriously, after removing the extended cable and going back to the one I was using eariler, the DTT signal strength seems to have somehow improved. Its not as good as with the samsung but it is working!

I'm confused.

(also, the samsung has about 75% signal strength)

Edit: Sony coming up with about 60% signal strength, dropping to 50 from time to time.

The_Conductor

Stephen wrote: »

There's something funny going on. I ran a great big dirty coax cable from the aerial outlet at the Samsung TV down to the Sony one and everything works fine through the MPEG-4 CAM. I guess there's dodgy with the wiring in the attic.

Also, even more mysteriously, after removing the extended cable and going back to the one I was using eariler, the DTT signal strength seems to have somehow improved. Its not as good as with the samsung but it is working!

I'm confused.

(also, the samsung has about 75% signal strength)

Edit: Sony coming up with about 60% signal strength, dropping to 50 from time to time.

Your internal wiring isn't sufficiently shielded and you're getting signal degradation- which is why when running a shielded cable from the Samsung outlet down to the Sony- your signal strength is considerably better.

Another suspect might be a break in the internal wiring- which often happens when the wiring is in ridiculous paths.......

If you're only getting 50-70% strength from an external antenna- there is no point in even suggesting an internal directional antenna- I think you've a little rewiring jobbie ahead of you!

Stephen

Just did a spot of investigation in the attic. Turns out there's far more cable coiled up there than I need. And what's there has a few nasty kinks and stuff in it. So I fed as much as possible down through the ceiling to the room below and then lopped about 10 metres off. Now the signal strength is pegged between 85 and 100% on the Sony

Thanks for your help smccarrick!

scath

Cairn Hill Transmitter is located in Longford, its a major transmitter covering a wider area: 53°48′28″N 7°42′52″W Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cairn_Hill_Transmitter

Red Giant

I've got a Sony KDL 40S2010. I was wondering if anyone knew if a mpeg4 cam would work in this one. Its seems to have one slot.

The_Conductor

Red Giant wrote: »

I've got a Sony KDL 40S2010. I was wondering if anyone knew if a mpeg4 cam would work in this one. Its seems to have one slot.

Yes- it works fine. Note: the receiver in the Sony needs a stronger signal than do the receivers in some other makes (like Samsung). Check an analogue UHF signal- if you don't have a reasonable enough picture- get a powered amp.

watty

Get a better Aerial.

Unless it's a high quality amp it may reduce Digital QUALITY even though the signal increases.

Kinked Coax usually needs the kink replaced by a connector, as the coax is permanently damaged

Sam Russell

Red Giant wrote: »

I've got a Sony KDL 40S2010. I was wondering if anyone knew if a mpeg4 cam would work in this one. Its seems to have one slot.

I have a KDL40S3000, and tried a Neotion card in it. It worked, that is it produced a picture, but it takes 2 or 3 seconds to change channels, which is not good. Also, it does not keep lipsync, and in a lot of programme material, it breaks up. A football match was totally broken up into blocks and random noise. When the trials were being transmitted up until August, it received perfectly, and now it can play the audio and the teletext. I would consider the Mpeg4 conversion to be totally unacceptably. I would rather get a new TV.

The analogue signal is OK, not as clear as a digital picture, but at least it is not breaking up. I will await a better solution. If the card was quicker, it might work, but converting from Mpeg4 to Mpeg2 takes time, and then decoding Mpeg2 is a further delay. I think that is fatal.

The_Conductor

Sam Russell wrote: »

I have a KDL40S3000, and tried a Neotion card in it. It worked, that is it produced a picture, but it takes 2 or 3 seconds to change channels, which is not good. Also, it does not keep lipsync, and in a lot of programme material, it breaks up. A football match was totally broken up into blocks and random noise. When the trials were being transmitted up until August, it received perfectly, and now it can play the audio and the teletext. I would consider the Mpeg4 conversion to be totally unacceptably. I would rather get a new TV.

The analogue signal is OK, not as clear as a digital picture, but at least it is not breaking up. I will await a better solution. If the card was quicker, it might work, but converting from Mpeg4 to Mpeg2 takes time, and then decoding Mpeg2 is a further delay. I think that is fatal.

I have an identical set. I used to have similar problems- particularly with lip sync- but its gotten a lot better in the past few months (the entire signal is about 2.8 seconds behind the analogue transmission). Lag between channel change is less then .5 second.

Apparently there are different software revisions for the Sonys some of which are optimised for DTT- I certainly don't have a recent version.

I also have a 26" W series Sony which is behaving identically.

Perhaps try a retune? Its not normal for channel change to take 4 seconds......

watty

Can be using a converter that fakes being a CAM.

A setbox is better. Esp with HDD. Wait a few months.

Sam Russell

I was very disapointed with the CAM, it did not work as well as I expected. The delay in changing channel was a lot longer than I remember the trials signal last July. Also I have got a Humax FOXSAT HDR and that changes channel much faster than the CAM, with an astonihing picture quality. The CAM picture was spoilt by the blocking and breakup of the picture in places of change, like the mouth of an announcer, the complete inability to handle a football match, and the drone of bees on the sound channel.

Maybe it is just the combination of signal strength and programme, but I sustect that the CAM is trying to do too much. I could not watch it. I will await a stb to solve the problem, or get a new TV with native Mpeg4, in a year or two.

Incidentaly, the TV will not play sound for the TV channels when switched to digital, but will for radio. However, if I go to radio, bring up the epg and move the pointer to tv, the hit ok, the sound come back to the TV channel. Obviously a bug for Mr. Sony to sort out.

STB

Sam Russell wrote: »

I was very disapointed with the CAM, it did not work as well as I expected. The delay in changing channel was a lot longer than I remember the trials signal last July. Also I have got a Humax FOXSAT HDR and that changes channel much faster than the CAM, with an astonihing picture quality. The CAM picture was spoilt by the blocking and breakup of the picture in places of change, like the mouth of an announcer, the complete inability to handle a football match, and the drone of bees on the sound channel.

Maybe it is just the combination of signal strength and programme, but I sustect that the CAM is trying to do too much. I could not watch it. I will await a stb to solve the problem, or get a new TV with native Mpeg4, in a year or two.

Incidentaly, the TV will not play sound for the TV channels when switched to digital, but will for radio. However, if I go to radio, bring up the epg and move the pointer to tv, the hit ok, the sound come back to the TV channel. Obviously a bug for Mr. Sony to sort out.

Heres something for you to try as I have witnessed it myself with the some of the Bravia series. Add the channels to a favourite list. Browse and change channels from that favourites lists. Any better ?

If not I suspect that you have either too,little or too much signal coming in. An adjustable booster should smooth it out for you and you may find a balance.

One further question. Is it a Neotion branded Mpeg4 Cam or a Turbosat branded Cam.

Sam Russell

The cam was a Neotion Viaaccess one I beleive, but the result was so bad, I sent it back. The trials that ended last July spoilt me, The downcoding in the CAM lost a lot of the crispness of the signal. I am used to digital satellite pictures, and the trial. The result of the CAM was terrible in a lot of ways. It is not the solution to me. I went satellite to get away from NTL, as their prices only went up and up. I do not like $ky, but freesat is wonderful. I will do with analogue for RTE for now.

A Freesat HD STB with a DTT tuner capable of Mpeg 4 would be a good solution for me, and Ireland in general. Particularly if the EPG were integrated.

Souriau

STB wrote: »

Heres something for you to try as I have witnessed it myself with the some of the Bravia series. Add the channels to a favourite list. Browse and change channels from that favourites lists. Any better ?

If not I suspect that you have either too,little or too much signal coming in. An adjustable booster should smooth it out for you and you may find a balance.

One further question. Is it a Neotion branded Mpeg4 Cam or a Turbosat branded Cam.

I bought a Pocket MPEG-4 Conex CAM for my iDTV, this failed to decode RTE MPEG-4 signal on my TV so the company refunded me.
I then bought a Pocket MPEG-4 Viaccess Extra this also failed to decode RTE signal but with an extra problem, it is breaking up my MPEG-2 signal from Divis. So I give up on the CAM and wait til there is an official MPEG-4 settop box

Can anyone tell me if Pocket MPEG-4 CAM is the same as Neotion MPEG-4 CAM?

Just so you know, the type of encryption which the CAM uses is irrelevant to the MPEG-4 conversion. If one CAM doesn't work then the other one won't either.

roverdublin

I can confirm that the NEOTION Pocket dTV Viaccess NP4 CI is working with my

TECHNISAT MULTIMEDIA TS1

This Sat receiver has a DVB-S and DVB-T tuner. Sadly the DVB-T tuner is MPEG2 and worked brilliantly until August last year when the DVB-T Signal was changed to MPEG4.

So, I had to try the NEOTION CI and it worked.
Even though I am in FOXROCK, I still need a good antenna. The THREE ROCK signal is weak.


NEOTION Pocket dTV Viaccess NP4 CI
http://neotionpocket.com/pocket_viaccess.php

Irish Bazza

As off this evening I am finally enable to receive the four TV Channels after a rechannel (no picture, sound only), I was only getting the 4 radio stations on my Samsung 40" LCD TV. A little progress

I have a CAM slot on the back of the TV, is the NEOTION Pocket dTV Viaccess NP4 CI worth getting to decode the picture. My signal is showing 85% from Kippure.

Your thoughts.