Pre WOTLK Honor wipe!

Fenix · 24-09-2008 6:01pm #1

Just a note to those of you who were planning to stockpile the max 75K honor pre wotlk in order to quickly aquire the new lvl80 pvp gear;

As many of you know we will be featuring a new Battleground, a dedicated world PvP zone and all new PvP items in Wrath of the Lich King. In order to make the transition from The Burning Crusade to Wrath of the Lich King flow as smoothly as possible, all accrued honor points will be reset at the launch of the expansion. We do this to ensure select players do not have an unfair advantage at level 80 from stockpiling honor to instantly purchase the newest Wrath of the Lich King PvP rewards. For those with unspent honor points prior to the release of the expansion, we will be offering a few upgrades and special rewards in next content patch solely for purchase via the honor system.

All Honor Tokens will be wiped as well. This reset should happen right before the launch of Wrath of the Lich King.

Not sure how amny of you folks were planning to do this but I knew a good few from my real (Burning Legion) were already holding off cashing in on thier Honor...

I'm glad they will be wiping it to be honest.

Krieg · 24-09-2008 6:28pm

****ing **** ******!

Not a happy bunny here. I had about 40k Stock piled since june and a couple hundred badges and thought id hold on until the expansion release

DarthWraak · 24-09-2008 6:53pm

dum

cian1500ww · 24-09-2008 8:57pm

Didn't this happen before TBC as well ?

Ivan · 24-09-2008 10:41pm

Yes, it did. And I dont know how people thought it could be any other way, would be kinda ridiculous hitting 80 and then buying a bunch of arena gear or honor gear and being ready to pwn people...

Just buy the season 2 and have an easier time leveling up. I think it is much better this way, personally. Looking forward to some even level arenas; starting at 80 on the same gear level means more fun arenas for the most part.

mayordenis · 25-09-2008 1:30am

Anyone who thought it would stay is ridiculous - it would be ****ing horrendous if you could ding 80 and have loads of items or any straight away. lol thats what you get

Anti · 25-09-2008 10:09am

Full s2 sitting in the bank and some s3 aswell

I agree with ivan and mayordenis, it would have been stupid to allow that. If you have a load of honor and badges left cash them in and get some nice pvp gems and stack them up for them lvl 72 blues were gonna get.

cian1500ww · 25-09-2008 12:00pm

Doesn't bother me anyway, I'm only lvl 30 yet

Have to make it to 60 before WOTLK !

Nehaxak · 25-09-2008 12:11pm

It gets worse though, apparently all pvp gear, apart from the base blue sets, will require Honor Points, Arena Points as well as Arena Rating to procure.
Which if it stays that way means for me at least I won't even be bothering to purchase the expansion.

All I do is pvp, world (what little of that there is) and BG pvp, I hate Arena's. If there is nothing to aim for and no decent gear rewards to get from the real pvp (I don't consider Arena to be pvp) then there is really no point in the game for me anymore anyway.

I'll stick to WaR and make the most of it, at least in WaR the pvp is near enough perfect the way they have it structured.

ven0m · 25-09-2008 12:17pm

It's a great idea & good idea, means the achievements will actually mean something.

Am I right in guessing these changes will ONLY apply to those who install & activate the new expansion & who are a level 70?

I can't see them resetting honor & marks on some poor bastard level 42, who's still levelling themselves up.

Anti · 25-09-2008 12:36pm

Yeah id say its only lvl 70's will get the honor wipe. Makes no sense at all to wipe anyone below to be honest. But then again what about lvl 69 twinks ((lol)) who are farming honor, will their honor be reset when they ding ?

ven0m · 25-09-2008 2:44pm

Actually, now I've had a bit of a think about this, their logic on this is actually totally assways. They are saying 'having honor & marks stacked' for level 80 is unfair & gives people an unfair advantage.

So TECHNICALLY, doing BG's as you're levelling up & having marks & honor stacked for when you ding 70 is also unfair by their newly created logic?

Methinks someone in blizzard is critting the nose candy so they can proc hard .......

Krieg · 25-09-2008 11:19pm

Alas, I only began playing 2 months before TBC and was unaware of the previous wipe. I still should have asked about it..

smellslikeshoes · 26-09-2008 8:00am

ven0m wrote: »

Actually, now I've had a bit of a think about this, their logic on this is actually totally assways. They are saying 'having honor & marks stacked' for level 80 is unfair & gives people an unfair advantage.

So TECHNICALLY, doing BG's as you're levelling up & having marks & honor stacked for when you ding 70 is also unfair by their newly created logic?

Methinks someone in blizzard is critting the nose candy so they can proc hard .......

The flaw in that logic is there are already people at 70 who have the gear if you ding 70 now so stockpiling the honor as you level won't really give you an advantage. The point of wiping the honor now is so everyone starts on an even footing for season 5 and nobody gets an easy 2k rating in the first week because they stockpiled honor and smacked down people who didn't stockpile.

mayordenis · 26-09-2008 8:15am

ven0m wrote: »

So TECHNICALLY, doing BG's as you're levelling up & having marks & honor stacked for when you ding 70 is also unfair by their newly created logic?

that doesn't make any sense whatsoever, it means everyone from release day to 80 is given a fair go at things,
I'm honestly surprised that this has crossed your mind - it's logic breaking.
I'm pretty sure the Honor wipe will be for every charcter regardless of level and if they get the expansion but I guess we'll see.
Wouldn't be much good if you had a twink with loads of honor and then just leveled it.

ven0m · 26-09-2008 9:19am

mayordenis wrote: »

that doesn't make any sense whatsoever, it means everyone from release day to 80 is given a fair go at things,
I'm honestly surprised that this has crossed your mind - it's logic breaking.
I'm pretty sure the Honor wipe will be for every charcter regardless of level and if they get the expansion but I guess we'll see.
Wouldn't be much good if you had a twink with loads of honor and then just leveled it.

Well, the way I see it - I started playing last October, & I didn't exactly have a fair shake when I dinged 70 & was in BG's against guys in full vengeful, or out & about trying to do PVE progress when no-one would take me into PVE guild cos my gear wasn't good enough, so I had to PuG my arse off & farm Heroics to even get to the point I'm at now. There was no 'consideration' towards people like me when there are s many out there who've been 70 for so damned long.

I mean, if they're serious - reset people's gold also, as there's more than several achievements that the huge quantities of gold people have hoarded that people can effectively buy; i.e. getting to 450 skill on professions, reaching new skill levels that obviously having a buttload of gold can more or less 'help you buy'.

Their logic is flawed in their approach, when it would have been easier to increase the honor costs dramatically. The ONE good thing they are going to do is make PVP items cost gold + arena points + BG honor + marks, which frankly would have made more sense. I mean, offering Deadly Gladiator items in the above cost sense where the gold factor is 20G - make it 250G, & you'll find that those who think they can buy their way to 80 in terms of certain achivements (which btw DOES yield loot rewards of their own!).

Either go the whole hog, or don't - but those sitting out there with 60-75K in gold in their account (and there are more than you think!) when it comes to the achievements are not exactly on a levelled playing field.

I really don't think resetting gold is viable, but set a maximum cap people can have going into WoTLK so the gold hoarders can't go buying their way to achievements, which are a new game focus.

Ivan · 26-09-2008 10:24am

ven0m wrote: »

Well, the way I see it - I started playing last October, & I didn't exactly have a fair shake when I dinged 70 & was in BG's against guys in full vengeful, or out & about trying to do PVE progress when no-one would take me into PVE guild cos my gear wasn't good enough, so I had to PuG my arse off & farm Heroics to even get to the point I'm at now. There was no 'consideration' towards people like me when there are s many out there who've been 70 for so damned long.

I mean, if they're serious - reset people's gold also, as there's more than several achievements that the huge quantities of gold people have hoarded that people can effectively buy; i.e. getting to 450 skill on professions, reaching new skill levels that obviously having a buttload of gold can more or less 'help you buy'.

Their logic is flawed in their approach, when it would have been easier to increase the honor costs dramatically. The ONE good thing they are going to do is make PVP items cost gold + arena points + BG honor + marks, which frankly would have made more sense. I mean, offering Deadly Gladiator items in the above cost sense where the gold factor is 20G - make it 250G, & you'll find that those who think they can buy their way to 80 in terms of certain achivements (which btw DOES yield loot rewards of their own!).

Either go the whole hog, or don't - but those sitting out there with 60-75K in gold in their account (and there are more than you think!) when it comes to the achievements are not exactly on a levelled playing field.

I really don't think resetting gold is viable, but set a maximum cap people can have going into WoTLK so the gold hoarders can't go buying their way to achievements, which are a new game focus.

If you had any idea how much they've reduced the difficulty in gearing up, you wouldnt say things like this.

Between removing attunements, making heroics easier, making them only require honored. Level 70 blue arena gear, purchasing arena gear for honor. The newer generation never had it so easy.

In my day, we'd raid 6 days a week, do a pug 20 man after 2am and pvp all day the 7th!
Youngsters, huh?

And to allay some fears, yes. New PvP gear will require arena points and honor. So what? Originally, PvP gear required arena points. That was it, the only way to get PvP gear was through arenas. Now, things are pretty much going back to the same as that, with one, rather considerable exception.

The open world PvP zone in northrend, provides honor points and arena points for winning it and for just taking part. So NOBODY has any excuse for bitching about PvP systems for Wrath; not even me!

ven0m · 26-09-2008 10:35am

Ivan wrote: »

If you had any idea how much they've reduced the difficulty in gearing up, you wouldnt say things like this.

Between removing attunements, making heroics easier, making them only require honored. Level 70 blue arena gear, purchasing arena gear for honor. The newer generation never had it so easy.

In my day, we'd raid 6 days a week, do a pug 20 man after 2am and pvp all day the 7th!
Youngsters, huh?

And to allay some fears, yes. New PvP gear will require arena points and honor. So what? Originally, PvP gear required arena points. That was it, the only way to get PvP gear was through arenas. Now, things are pretty much going back to the same as that, with one, rather considerable exception.

The open world PvP zone in northrend, provides honor points and arena points for winning it and for just taking part. So NOBODY has any excuse for bitching about PvP systems for Wrath; not even me!

I'm NOT complaining, hell - everytime I buy a piece of PVP gear or badge gear, I have my crap reset to zero anyways, that's a no-brainer - jesus h christmas - READ WHAT I WROTE; Their logic surrounding it being out of FAIRNESS is what I said is flawed the more I think about it.

Is it fair that someone who has 75k upwards in gold can 'buy' achievements & their rewards? no. So why should that be any different to the honor/marks thing? Is it fair that someone who has had time to gain an uber epic flying mount will be able to explore Northrend faster than me? no.

Is it fair that that those with HUGE gold reserves if they are tailors, & have artisan riding be able to level up to 450 to make their flying carpet regardless of cost while people who do tailoring & are in a similar boat to myself where we are still struggling to get artisan riding & level up our professions due to over inflated in-game economy costs due to gold farmers etc. will not be able to get to make said item, & thus receive said achievement & achievement rewards for it? cos that's not fair.

You can't be someone like blizzard & make changes like that when officials from blizz came out earlier this year & said 'no, marks & honor won't be reset - farm away' & then within 7 weeks of release do a u-turn & claim it's about fairness, & then say 'oh that announcement was a mistake' & not even have the balls to apologise for a misleading release through the blue posts.

Blizz claims its about fairness. Tell me ANYTHING about the above points that is fair.

(p.s. it really doesn;t bother me much, cos I'm used to getting to hat I need for an item, spending it & going from scratch again, I've personally accepted that) - but I can understand why so many people are pissed off esp. when Blizz came out & said 'go farm - nothing changes'.

Anti · 26-09-2008 11:49am

Over inflated economy ? Things are cheaper now then ever(well in 12 months of experience). 20g for voidys, 11 for large prism, primal nethers for 10g !! Even cloth and leather has dropped prices drasticially. People are selling everything they have cheap to get some money before wrath hits.

As for the honor reset, its seems fair to me. Would it be fair if i have 5 lvl 70's all honor and badge capped. Then when the new gear comes out i can buy a load of it. Putting everyone on a level playing field here is the best solution. And your idea about wiping people gold reserves ? Hell No... Ive worked damn hard for the 8000g i have in the bank. Constant farming, not wasting it on random crap and spending time on my mains crafting for other people.

ven0m · 26-09-2008 12:15pm

Manties wrote: »

Over inflated economy ? Things are cheaper now then ever(well in 12 months of experience). 20g for voidys, 11 for large prism, primal nethers for 10g !! Even cloth and leather has dropped prices drasticially. People are selling everything they have cheap to get some money before wrath hits.

As for the honor reset, its seems fair to me. Would it be fair if i have 5 lvl 70's all honor and badge capped. Then when the new gear comes out i can buy a load of it. Putting everyone on a level playing field here is the best solution. And your idea about wiping people gold reserves ? Hell No... Ive worked damn hard for the 8000g i have in the bank. Constant farming, not wasting it on random crap and spending time on my mains crafting for other people.

Well, people have worked hard for their honor & marks just as you have for your 8000G. I don't think it's fair you can waltz into WoTLK & pretty much 'buy' your way to 450 in a profession & thus earn an achievement & it's reward the same way you don't think it's fair someone can buy a load of gear. See what I'm getting at now?

Dunno what realm you're on - but on the two I've been on mats you've listed there are not that cheap, & I've never seen them that cheap on either of the realms horde or alliance side!

Anti · 26-09-2008 1:04pm

Well do what i will be doing will all my honor and marks. Im just going to buy a crap load of pvp gems. Also, i doubt 8000g will let me lvl up taioring and LW to 450. I can imaging the AH going nuts with the cost of the mats at the beginning.

Also when you think that 8000g is alot of money to buy gear, your havign a giraffe. Heart of darkness' go for 1kg each. The new wrists i want on my hunter need 4 of them along with another 1000-1500g worth of mats. And thats from a simple MH pattern.

DRakE · 26-09-2008 1:14pm

no ****ing way hearts of darkness go for 1000g

about 3 months ago i was buying them for 150g each for that haste spelldmg shoulder, cant remember the name offhand

nix · 26-09-2008 2:05pm

Obviously the prices vary from server to server

So alota guilds on one server having cleared BT will be selling them cheaper than say the server im on where like only 2 alliance guilds are in sunwell o_O

Nehaxak · 26-09-2008 2:13pm

HoD were selling on Draenor Horde side for 75g a couple of days ago :rolleyes:

Horsefumbler · 26-09-2008 4:38pm

my retarded brother farmed 100 of each honour badges( which he pugged games to get mostly) and max honour. He was gutted when I told him this news:D

papajimsmooth · 26-09-2008 9:46pm

They straight out lied, earlier hey said that we could farm honor for the new expansion

10. Can I start farm 75k honor and 100 of all marks and 5000 arena points now already for WotLK or will it reset?

10. Nothing will reset, fear not.

Wasted my time so

Anti · 27-09-2008 12:06am

DRakE wrote: »

no ****ing way hearts of darkness go for 1000g

about 3 months ago i was buying them for 150g each for that haste spelldmg shoulder, cant remember the name offhand

Current price 1200g

Ivan · 27-09-2008 12:52am

Wow, thats one sucky server you got there

Fenix · 27-09-2008 3:43am

Shocked at the price of HoD on your server !!

About people who have stacked so much gold, got maxed professions, highest riding skill etc... When i got my epic riding mount it was painful handing over that hard earned ~5000G, since then, with the arrival of the Isle / Netherwing / Orgi'la etc dailies and the cap increase of 25 dailies per day, It has become stupidly easy to acquire a large amount of gold. At the moment I’m sitting with around 19k on my main and about 6k spread between a few alts. While I have tried to be shrewd at the AH, I have done absolutely no type of 'gold farming', other than completing the dailies on my main and 1 other alt (most of the time i would just do the Isle dailies on the alt while those and fishing / cooking and some of the easier netherwing on main). Takes about 1.5 hours, less once your that used to them.

I honestly think blizz have made the acquisition of gold a lot easier in an effort to combat gold farmer, so honestly I don’t think anyone that plays even half regularly has a prayer complaining about difficulty in getting gold!

Ivan · 27-09-2008 5:58am

My gold e-peen is bigger than yours!

Anti · 27-09-2008 4:05pm

Yup, my realm is a load of donkey cock to be honest.

Fenix · 27-09-2008 4:18pm

Ivan wrote: »

My gold e-peen is bigger than yours!

How constructive...

My post wasnt made as an effort to brag, far from it. It was simply to suggest how much easier it has become to obtain large amounts of gold easier...

Thanks for your input though Ivan.

smellslikeshoes · 28-09-2008 10:10am

Wow thats a lot for heart of darkness', they go for about 500 gold on my server and considering the progression is poor on my server (3 guilds total in Sunwell) 1200 is an insane amount.

Woden · 28-09-2008 3:55pm

cian1500ww wrote: »

Didn't this happen before TBC as well ?

Ivan wrote: »

Yes, it did.

If memory serves it did not. I recall picking up the pvp bracers at 70 for my tanking gear and posts of reassurance before tbc that honor would not reset.

Here we go in the tbc faq

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=67248135&postId=672520849&sid=1

Will honor points be reset to zero upon release of the expansion?

No. Players will be able to retain their current honor points.

Someone else can confirm perhaps if this was followed through?

Nehaxak · 28-09-2008 6:36pm

BTW, NorthRend is providing Arena points and honor points in the beta, this will not be in release.

Many players, actually I'd say the bulk majority of players, hate Arena, hate fishbowl "pvp" in all it's class unbalanced glory and hate the way blizzard are *forcing* their players to play the Arena just to get gear for enjoyment elsewhere in other pvp.

Guess that's why I now setup an Arena team with my two accounts and all I do is join and stand there. Do it ten times a week, takes about 30 minutes and I watch TV while clicking and joining. No interest whatsoever in Arena and will only use them to try get a couple of points because I was *forced* too in order to get the pvp gear I want to enjoy the BG and world pvp with.

Arena's = stupid retarded american dev idea, like american football, wtf was wrong with soccer ? nothing, but they have to bollock the whole lot up and make it more complicated , longwinded and stupid. Typical.

/rant off - m'off to play WaR instead.

Splinter · 01-10-2008 8:53am

honor wont be reset as per a blue post this morning:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10532279664&sid=1

ven0m · 01-10-2008 9:29am

splinter wrote: »

honor wont be reset as per a blue post this morning:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10532279664&sid=1

See, now this is what I said in a previous post - make stuff way more expensive, & require other currency. This is what a thread with hundreds of posts complaining gets you with Blizzard.

Happy days

KilOit · 01-10-2008 1:02pm

There's gonna be a major backlash now with people that have spent there honour on items they wouldn't have if they knew they could keep it after Wotlk, Why can't Blizz ever stick to there guns im getting tired of them giving into forum whiners all the time, They did this for BC why where people so surprised

ven0m · 01-10-2008 1:38pm

KilOit wrote: »

There's gonna be a major backlash now with people that have spent there honour on items they wouldn't have if they knew they could keep it after Wotlk, Why can't Blizz ever stick to there guns im getting tired of them giving into forum whiners all the time, They did this for BC why where people so surprised

True - like I said, I could care less whether they wipe or not. I can see both side of the argument, but in fairness - the arguments backing the wipe are MORE valid than the nays.

The whiners, I could care less about - if they just went & spent honor after it was announced, they get what they deserved. No-one forced them to grind for hours, or stash. IT'S A VIDEO GAME.

They assume cos they play more hours they've more rights. Everyone pays the same per month for an account, everyone has the same rights. How someone spends that subscription in terms of hours is up to them, but they've zero entitlements.

If whiners don't like it, go set up a private server, play & control how things change themselves, or create their own MMO. It's what people did in the past.

TheDoc · 01-10-2008 8:29pm

Have to say I dont agree with this.

The minute people hit 80 now, they have it open to them for some seriously strong gear, and PVP will be imbalanced, in favour of those hardcore gamers...

Then again, ive been grinding the last few nights to get some items like a staff etc, and now I'm a bit annoyed, because no doubt those items will be replaced pretty early on in WOTLK

Nehaxak · 01-10-2008 8:51pm

Not really, your level 70 gear seems to be perfectly fine all the way to 80. Once you hit 80 you can worry more about your gear, pvp or pve, whatever takes your fancy.
It's not a giant leap gear wise like it was with TBC, I gave up levelling at 75 in the beta (as I don't want to be annoyed anymore!!!) but my pvp gear was fine for levelling and seen lots around hanging on to their lvl 70 gear when they hit 80.
Those hoarding points will most likely just be hoarding them to compete better and get a head start in Arena's rather than the real pvp so in actual fact this change whether it happened or not, will not be detrimental to any other pvp'ers at all.

DarthWraak · 01-10-2008 11:17pm

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

PVP will be imbalanced

:rolleyes:

mayordenis · 02-10-2008 12:38am

ven0m wrote: »

I'm NOT complaining, hell - everytime I buy a piece of PVP gear or badge gear, I have my crap reset to zero anyways, that's a no-brainer - jesus h christmas - READ WHAT I WROTE; Their logic surrounding it being out of FAIRNESS is what I said is flawed the more I think about it.

If someone works hard to get to 80 Why should on day 1 someone else be stronger than them?
Coming along late to the game is completely different - you have absolutely no idea of what fairness is

And Blizzard have thouroughly embarressed themselves by going back on their word because of a few little children who don't understand that a new game should put everyone on a level playing field.

ven0m · 02-10-2008 2:25am

mayordenis wrote: »

If someone works hard to get to 80 Why should on day 1 someone else be stronger than them?
Coming along late to the game is completely different - you have absolutely no idea of what fairness is

And Blizzard have thouroughly embarressed themselves by going back on their word because of a few little children who don't understand that a new game should put everyone on a level playing field.

Erm, cos on day 1 the reality is they're NOT going to be stronger than them?

Maybe because there is NO big gear jump like everyone thinks, & the 'gear' in question won't be obtainable UNTIL you actually ding 80, & even then you'll require a grip of things you'll still have to grind out, even in the new BG's & PvP zones, as well as Arena.

Blue posts even confirmed S2 as more than usable up as far as 75, which is HALF WAY through Northrend.

People in Sunwell gear or T6 are going to have it way easier for levelling, as both are confirmed as very usable at 80 in clearing naxx, so i think some of you really instead of just reading reactions, maybe, perhaps should go read the blue posts for yourselves & all the associated blue thread posts too .....

I've no idea what fairness is? Keep personal comments out of it please, ty v. much - when you know me, you can comment on my understanding of 'fairness' & whether I do indeed have a grasp of said fairness as a concept. You're a moderator, behave like one.

Ivan · 02-10-2008 6:41am

ven0m wrote: »

Erm, cos on day 1 the reality is they're NOT going to be stronger than them?

Maybe because there is NO big gear jump like everyone thinks, & the 'gear' in question won't be obtainable UNTIL you actually ding 80, & even then you'll require a grip of things you'll still have to grind out, even in the new BG's & PvP zones, as well as Arena.

Blue posts even confirmed S2 as more than usable up as far as 75, which is HALF WAY through Northrend.

People in Sunwell gear or T6 are going to have it way easier for levelling, as both are confirmed as very usable at 80 in clearing naxx, so i think some of you really instead of just reading reactions, maybe, perhaps should go read the blue posts for yourselves & all the associated blue thread posts too .....

I've no idea what fairness is? Keep personal comments out of it please, ty v. much - when you know me, you can comment on my understanding of 'fairness' & whether I do indeed have a grasp of said fairness as a concept. You're a moderator, behave like one.

Assuming you have no idea of fairness, based on your posts is a perfectly valid approach to posting. You are then perfectly free to defend your statements by posting counter-points. It is in no way, at least in my opinion, a personal attack. However, if you feel that it is, feel free to report the post. But please dont attempt to be a back-seat mod.

Furthermore, I feel you are somewhat missing our point. We dont care about the leveling from 70 to 80. Most people, who are even considering the issues this raises at level 80 in pvp or arenas, will be level 80 in the first or second week anyways. The problems are, when the actual grinding of arena gear begins, there will be several players who, if they are not already geared out in level 80 arena gear, will at least have a stockpile of honor that they will be able to use to buy it. This is a pretty huge advantage, since it allows those few to gear up that much faster, and therefore have a big advantage over those that have not, for several weeks until others catch up. This will allow them to get the epic level 80 arena gear faster and then perpetuate this advantage.

These advantages are further compounded by Blizzards flip-flopping on the whole thing, with many people going out and spending their saved honour points due to being told; "we are wiping honor points".

Not to mention the fact that this contradicts everything Blizzard have done in the past, Burning crusade was a complete gear reset. Not just because of the changes to stamina. That simply made the gear reset quicker, level 60 epic gear being replaced by level 61, but because item power increases as item level does. A level 71 blue will have a higher item level than T4 epics. Yes, it is possible to level almost as fast in mid to high end level 70 epics, if not faster since you dont need to go hunt down gear, but that does not mean that you wont be able to find items at level 71 that you could use to replace your level 70 epics...

Finally, resilience is yet another scaling stat. At level 80 you will need several 100 more resilience rating to reach the resilience cap. So while current arena gear will be useful, this will only be the case compared to others who are in gear that is inferior. You will still be at a severe disadvantage compared to people who are even just in blue level 80 PvP gear. This change (or lack of one, I guess) allows others to hit level 80 and then immediately swap into pvp gear, which offers massive stat advantages over others.

With all this in mind however, I find myself at least somewhat glad, that Blizzard has decided to flip on this. Simply because it means they are keeping with their original statement that they wouldnt wipe honour. The end result is unfortunate, but the bit in the middle is very frustrating.

ven0m · 02-10-2008 10:39am

The impression I'm getting from Blizzard's posts, is you won't be able to grind & buy as you level up. You will only be able to buy level 80 gear at level 80. Yes that may seem unfair, but there's little that is fair about PVP gear, Arena or BG's. People can grind out Arena points through quick losses & mutiple teams over a season. Yes, they won't get some of the uber gear, but hey - doesn't some of that gear end up filtering down to 'welfare' at some stage.

The REAL problem is the fact there IS welfare epics by this token. I mean, PVP gear for use in PVE as 'welfare'. It's a huge part of the problem. It's epic gear, it SHOULD be hard to obtain, & PVP gear should not be able to be used in PVE raids/instances in the first place, which would make PVE epic gear mean something & remove the 'welfare' epics issue. Sure, use your PVP gear out in the world for wPVP encounters, but make the gear unusable inside dungeons/instances. It would return gear to actually mean something & mean something when obtained.

The badge vendor was another 'welfare' add-on. The fact is, Blizzard have done everything to make the game easier, make epics more obtainable & make more gold, because they see it as a revenue generator from subscriptions & a business - most players see it as a game, & not as an entertainment service they pay for (even though they are aware they are paying for it monthly)

Woden · 02-10-2008 11:10am

Anyone can now stockpile honor and badges though to level the playing field you have a month and a half to do it. Or based on the original information you could have already being doing it.

Anti · 02-10-2008 11:13am

I see your point about the pvp gear. But doing that would alienate alot of casual players who want do get into the 10 and 25man raids, even if only to progress very slowly.

When i started raiding i was using full pvp gear, as they were the only epics i could easilly obtain, sure i could run the same heroic 20 times and the item might drop, but then i have to roll for the item with other players.

ven0m · 02-10-2008 12:45pm

Manties wrote: »

I see your point about the pvp gear. But doing that would alienate alot of casual players who want do get into the 10 and 25man raids, even if only to progress very slowly.

When i started raiding i was using full pvp gear, as they were the only epics i could easilly obtain, sure i could run the same heroic 20 times and the item might drop, but then i have to roll for the item with other players.

Casuals are always screwed, hence alot of changes in how you'll proceed to 80 in WoTLK, & making dungeons 10-mannable.

Besides, no one runs heroics anymore for gear only, they mostly do it for badges & gems, & to use said badges at the gear vendor to give gear even above kara or HC gear in some cases.

TBH, since I discovered having a PVE set, as well as my PVP set - I've found playing better, although respeccing is proving a total pain in the proverbials & expensive.

Woden wrote: »

Anyone can now stockpile honor and badges though to level the playing field you have a month and a half to do it. Or based on the original information you could have already being doing it.

I was grinding out badges & honor all the way along, so i didn't arrive at 70 in PvP & be a total n00b :-D

dlofnep · 14-10-2008 5:15pm

ven0m wrote: »

The impression I'm getting from Blizzard's posts, is you won't be able to grind & buy as you level up. You will only be able to buy level 80 gear at level 80. Yes that may seem unfair, but there's little that is fair about PVP gear, Arena or BG's. People can grind out Arena points through quick losses & mutiple teams over a season. Yes, they won't get some of the uber gear, but hey - doesn't some of that gear end up filtering down to 'welfare' at some stage.

The REAL problem is the fact there IS welfare epics by this token. I mean, PVP gear for use in PVE as 'welfare'. It's a huge part of the problem. It's epic gear, it SHOULD be hard to obtain, & PVP gear should not be able to be used in PVE raids/instances in the first place, which would make PVE epic gear mean something & remove the 'welfare' epics issue. Sure, use your PVP gear out in the world for wPVP encounters, but make the gear unusable inside dungeons/instances. It would return gear to actually mean something & mean something when obtained.

The badge vendor was another 'welfare' add-on. The fact is, Blizzard have done everything to make the game easier, make epics more obtainable & make more gold, because they see it as a revenue generator from subscriptions & a business - most players see it as a game, & not as an entertainment service they pay for (even though they are aware they are paying for it monthly)

Correct. I remember running Molten Core for my first time and getting my first epic (Nightslayer shoulders). I remember how happy I was to have an epic. At that time, everyone was pretty much in blues. I got a few more epics in Molten Core and I deemed to have very good gear.

Now - even if you have nearly full epics, your gear is still crap. It's like - epics are now the new blues and unless you have high tier for pve, or top arena gear - then you're worthless.

It's totally changed the game. Sometimes, I'd rather go back to before TBC - It was really exciting then to get a new piece of gear. Now, not so much.

ven0m · 14-10-2008 5:33pm

dlofnep wrote: »

Correct. I remember running Molten Core for my first time and getting my first epic (Nightslayer shoulders). I remember how happy I was to have an epic. At that time, everyone was pretty much in blues. I got a few more epics in Molten Core and I deemed to have very good gear.

Now - even if you have nearly full epics, your gear is still crap. It's like - epics are now the new blues and unless you have high tier for pve, or top arena gear - then you're worthless.

It's totally changed the game. Sometimes, I'd rather go back to before TBC - It was really exciting then to get a new piece of gear. Now, not so much.

Blizzard have used the line of 'appealing to casual players more' when talking about this new expansion alot & the changes in the last year to the game ........ kinda makes previous achievements worthless then, or future ones meaningless.

I mean, I can farm the crap out of stratholme/scholomance solo as a mage, make a ton of money from the AH, & fund myself ridiculously better than those who are grinding out heroics .......

Pre WOTLK Honor wipe!

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