Pre WOTLK Honor wipe!

Fenix

Ivan wrote: »

My gold e-peen is bigger than yours!

How constructive...

My post wasnt made as an effort to brag, far from it. It was simply to suggest how much easier it has become to obtain large amounts of gold easier...

Thanks for your input though Ivan.

smellslikeshoes

Wow thats a lot for heart of darkness', they go for about 500 gold on my server and considering the progression is poor on my server (3 guilds total in Sunwell) 1200 is an insane amount.

Woden

cian1500ww wrote: »

Didn't this happen before TBC as well ?

Ivan wrote: »

Yes, it did.

If memory serves it did not. I recall picking up the pvp bracers at 70 for my tanking gear and posts of reassurance before tbc that honor would not reset.

Here we go in the tbc faq

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=67248135&postId=672520849&sid=1

Will honor points be reset to zero upon release of the expansion?

No. Players will be able to retain their current honor points.

Someone else can confirm perhaps if this was followed through?

Nehaxak

BTW, NorthRend is providing Arena points and honor points in the beta, this will not be in release.

Many players, actually I'd say the bulk majority of players, hate Arena, hate fishbowl "pvp" in all it's class unbalanced glory and hate the way blizzard are *forcing* their players to play the Arena just to get gear for enjoyment elsewhere in other pvp.

Guess that's why I now setup an Arena team with my two accounts and all I do is join and stand there. Do it ten times a week, takes about 30 minutes and I watch TV while clicking and joining. No interest whatsoever in Arena and will only use them to try get a couple of points because I was *forced* too in order to get the pvp gear I want to enjoy the BG and world pvp with.

Arena's = stupid retarded american dev idea, like american football, wtf was wrong with soccer ? nothing, but they have to bollock the whole lot up and make it more complicated , longwinded and stupid. Typical.

/rant off - m'off to play WaR instead.

Splinter

honor wont be reset as per a blue post this morning:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10532279664&sid=1

ven0m

splinter wrote: »

honor wont be reset as per a blue post this morning:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10532279664&sid=1

See, now this is what I said in a previous post - make stuff way more expensive, & require other currency. This is what a thread with hundreds of posts complaining gets you with Blizzard.

Happy days

KilOit

There's gonna be a major backlash now with people that have spent there honour on items they wouldn't have if they knew they could keep it after Wotlk, Why can't Blizz ever stick to there guns im getting tired of them giving into forum whiners all the time, They did this for BC why where people so surprised

ven0m

KilOit wrote: »

There's gonna be a major backlash now with people that have spent there honour on items they wouldn't have if they knew they could keep it after Wotlk, Why can't Blizz ever stick to there guns im getting tired of them giving into forum whiners all the time, They did this for BC why where people so surprised

True - like I said, I could care less whether they wipe or not. I can see both side of the argument, but in fairness - the arguments backing the wipe are MORE valid than the nays.

The whiners, I could care less about - if they just went & spent honor after it was announced, they get what they deserved. No-one forced them to grind for hours, or stash. IT'S A VIDEO GAME.

They assume cos they play more hours they've more rights. Everyone pays the same per month for an account, everyone has the same rights. How someone spends that subscription in terms of hours is up to them, but they've zero entitlements.

If whiners don't like it, go set up a private server, play & control how things change themselves, or create their own MMO. It's what people did in the past.

TheDoc

Have to say I dont agree with this.

The minute people hit 80 now, they have it open to them for some seriously strong gear, and PVP will be imbalanced, in favour of those hardcore gamers...

Then again, ive been grinding the last few nights to get some items like a staff etc, and now I'm a bit annoyed, because no doubt those items will be replaced pretty early on in WOTLK

Nehaxak

Not really, your level 70 gear seems to be perfectly fine all the way to 80. Once you hit 80 you can worry more about your gear, pvp or pve, whatever takes your fancy.
It's not a giant leap gear wise like it was with TBC, I gave up levelling at 75 in the beta (as I don't want to be annoyed anymore!!!) but my pvp gear was fine for levelling and seen lots around hanging on to their lvl 70 gear when they hit 80.
Those hoarding points will most likely just be hoarding them to compete better and get a head start in Arena's rather than the real pvp so in actual fact this change whether it happened or not, will not be detrimental to any other pvp'ers at all.

DarthWraak

[DM]-TheDOC- wrote: »

PVP will be imbalanced

:rolleyes:

mayordenis

ven0m wrote: »

I'm NOT complaining, hell - everytime I buy a piece of PVP gear or badge gear, I have my crap reset to zero anyways, that's a no-brainer - jesus h christmas - READ WHAT I WROTE; Their logic surrounding it being out of FAIRNESS is what I said is flawed the more I think about it.

If someone works hard to get to 80 Why should on day 1 someone else be stronger than them?
Coming along late to the game is completely different - you have absolutely no idea of what fairness is

And Blizzard have thouroughly embarressed themselves by going back on their word because of a few little children who don't understand that a new game should put everyone on a level playing field.

ven0m

mayordenis wrote: »

If someone works hard to get to 80 Why should on day 1 someone else be stronger than them?
Coming along late to the game is completely different - you have absolutely no idea of what fairness is

And Blizzard have thouroughly embarressed themselves by going back on their word because of a few little children who don't understand that a new game should put everyone on a level playing field.

Erm, cos on day 1 the reality is they're NOT going to be stronger than them?

Maybe because there is NO big gear jump like everyone thinks, & the 'gear' in question won't be obtainable UNTIL you actually ding 80, & even then you'll require a grip of things you'll still have to grind out, even in the new BG's & PvP zones, as well as Arena.

Blue posts even confirmed S2 as more than usable up as far as 75, which is HALF WAY through Northrend.

People in Sunwell gear or T6 are going to have it way easier for levelling, as both are confirmed as very usable at 80 in clearing naxx, so i think some of you really instead of just reading reactions, maybe, perhaps should go read the blue posts for yourselves & all the associated blue thread posts too .....

I've no idea what fairness is? Keep personal comments out of it please, ty v. much - when you know me, you can comment on my understanding of 'fairness' & whether I do indeed have a grasp of said fairness as a concept. You're a moderator, behave like one.

Ivan

ven0m wrote: »

Erm, cos on day 1 the reality is they're NOT going to be stronger than them?

Maybe because there is NO big gear jump like everyone thinks, & the 'gear' in question won't be obtainable UNTIL you actually ding 80, & even then you'll require a grip of things you'll still have to grind out, even in the new BG's & PvP zones, as well as Arena.

Blue posts even confirmed S2 as more than usable up as far as 75, which is HALF WAY through Northrend.

People in Sunwell gear or T6 are going to have it way easier for levelling, as both are confirmed as very usable at 80 in clearing naxx, so i think some of you really instead of just reading reactions, maybe, perhaps should go read the blue posts for yourselves & all the associated blue thread posts too .....

I've no idea what fairness is? Keep personal comments out of it please, ty v. much - when you know me, you can comment on my understanding of 'fairness' & whether I do indeed have a grasp of said fairness as a concept. You're a moderator, behave like one.

Assuming you have no idea of fairness, based on your posts is a perfectly valid approach to posting. You are then perfectly free to defend your statements by posting counter-points. It is in no way, at least in my opinion, a personal attack. However, if you feel that it is, feel free to report the post. But please dont attempt to be a back-seat mod.

Furthermore, I feel you are somewhat missing our point. We dont care about the leveling from 70 to 80. Most people, who are even considering the issues this raises at level 80 in pvp or arenas, will be level 80 in the first or second week anyways. The problems are, when the actual grinding of arena gear begins, there will be several players who, if they are not already geared out in level 80 arena gear, will at least have a stockpile of honor that they will be able to use to buy it. This is a pretty huge advantage, since it allows those few to gear up that much faster, and therefore have a big advantage over those that have not, for several weeks until others catch up. This will allow them to get the epic level 80 arena gear faster and then perpetuate this advantage.

These advantages are further compounded by Blizzards flip-flopping on the whole thing, with many people going out and spending their saved honour points due to being told; "we are wiping honor points".

Not to mention the fact that this contradicts everything Blizzard have done in the past, Burning crusade was a complete gear reset. Not just because of the changes to stamina. That simply made the gear reset quicker, level 60 epic gear being replaced by level 61, but because item power increases as item level does. A level 71 blue will have a higher item level than T4 epics. Yes, it is possible to level almost as fast in mid to high end level 70 epics, if not faster since you dont need to go hunt down gear, but that does not mean that you wont be able to find items at level 71 that you could use to replace your level 70 epics...

Finally, resilience is yet another scaling stat. At level 80 you will need several 100 more resilience rating to reach the resilience cap. So while current arena gear will be useful, this will only be the case compared to others who are in gear that is inferior. You will still be at a severe disadvantage compared to people who are even just in blue level 80 PvP gear. This change (or lack of one, I guess) allows others to hit level 80 and then immediately swap into pvp gear, which offers massive stat advantages over others.

With all this in mind however, I find myself at least somewhat glad, that Blizzard has decided to flip on this. Simply because it means they are keeping with their original statement that they wouldnt wipe honour. The end result is unfortunate, but the bit in the middle is very frustrating.

ven0m

The impression I'm getting from Blizzard's posts, is you won't be able to grind & buy as you level up. You will only be able to buy level 80 gear at level 80. Yes that may seem unfair, but there's little that is fair about PVP gear, Arena or BG's. People can grind out Arena points through quick losses & mutiple teams over a season. Yes, they won't get some of the uber gear, but hey - doesn't some of that gear end up filtering down to 'welfare' at some stage.

The REAL problem is the fact there IS welfare epics by this token. I mean, PVP gear for use in PVE as 'welfare'. It's a huge part of the problem. It's epic gear, it SHOULD be hard to obtain, & PVP gear should not be able to be used in PVE raids/instances in the first place, which would make PVE epic gear mean something & remove the 'welfare' epics issue. Sure, use your PVP gear out in the world for wPVP encounters, but make the gear unusable inside dungeons/instances. It would return gear to actually mean something & mean something when obtained.

The badge vendor was another 'welfare' add-on. The fact is, Blizzard have done everything to make the game easier, make epics more obtainable & make more gold, because they see it as a revenue generator from subscriptions & a business - most players see it as a game, & not as an entertainment service they pay for (even though they are aware they are paying for it monthly)

Woden

Anyone can now stockpile honor and badges though to level the playing field you have a month and a half to do it. Or based on the original information you could have already being doing it.

Anti

I see your point about the pvp gear. But doing that would alienate alot of casual players who want do get into the 10 and 25man raids, even if only to progress very slowly.

When i started raiding i was using full pvp gear, as they were the only epics i could easilly obtain, sure i could run the same heroic 20 times and the item might drop, but then i have to roll for the item with other players.

ven0m

Manties wrote: »

I see your point about the pvp gear. But doing that would alienate alot of casual players who want do get into the 10 and 25man raids, even if only to progress very slowly.

When i started raiding i was using full pvp gear, as they were the only epics i could easilly obtain, sure i could run the same heroic 20 times and the item might drop, but then i have to roll for the item with other players.

Casuals are always screwed, hence alot of changes in how you'll proceed to 80 in WoTLK, & making dungeons 10-mannable.

Besides, no one runs heroics anymore for gear only, they mostly do it for badges & gems, & to use said badges at the gear vendor to give gear even above kara or HC gear in some cases.

TBH, since I discovered having a PVE set, as well as my PVP set - I've found playing better, although respeccing is proving a total pain in the proverbials & expensive.

Woden wrote: »

Anyone can now stockpile honor and badges though to level the playing field you have a month and a half to do it. Or based on the original information you could have already being doing it.

I was grinding out badges & honor all the way along, so i didn't arrive at 70 in PvP & be a total n00b :-D

dlofnep

ven0m wrote: »

The impression I'm getting from Blizzard's posts, is you won't be able to grind & buy as you level up. You will only be able to buy level 80 gear at level 80. Yes that may seem unfair, but there's little that is fair about PVP gear, Arena or BG's. People can grind out Arena points through quick losses & mutiple teams over a season. Yes, they won't get some of the uber gear, but hey - doesn't some of that gear end up filtering down to 'welfare' at some stage.

The REAL problem is the fact there IS welfare epics by this token. I mean, PVP gear for use in PVE as 'welfare'. It's a huge part of the problem. It's epic gear, it SHOULD be hard to obtain, & PVP gear should not be able to be used in PVE raids/instances in the first place, which would make PVE epic gear mean something & remove the 'welfare' epics issue. Sure, use your PVP gear out in the world for wPVP encounters, but make the gear unusable inside dungeons/instances. It would return gear to actually mean something & mean something when obtained.

The badge vendor was another 'welfare' add-on. The fact is, Blizzard have done everything to make the game easier, make epics more obtainable & make more gold, because they see it as a revenue generator from subscriptions & a business - most players see it as a game, & not as an entertainment service they pay for (even though they are aware they are paying for it monthly)

Correct. I remember running Molten Core for my first time and getting my first epic (Nightslayer shoulders). I remember how happy I was to have an epic. At that time, everyone was pretty much in blues. I got a few more epics in Molten Core and I deemed to have very good gear.

Now - even if you have nearly full epics, your gear is still crap. It's like - epics are now the new blues and unless you have high tier for pve, or top arena gear - then you're worthless.

It's totally changed the game. Sometimes, I'd rather go back to before TBC - It was really exciting then to get a new piece of gear. Now, not so much.

ven0m

dlofnep wrote: »

Correct. I remember running Molten Core for my first time and getting my first epic (Nightslayer shoulders). I remember how happy I was to have an epic. At that time, everyone was pretty much in blues. I got a few more epics in Molten Core and I deemed to have very good gear.

Now - even if you have nearly full epics, your gear is still crap. It's like - epics are now the new blues and unless you have high tier for pve, or top arena gear - then you're worthless.

It's totally changed the game. Sometimes, I'd rather go back to before TBC - It was really exciting then to get a new piece of gear. Now, not so much.

Blizzard have used the line of 'appealing to casual players more' when talking about this new expansion alot & the changes in the last year to the game ........ kinda makes previous achievements worthless then, or future ones meaningless.

I mean, I can farm the crap out of stratholme/scholomance solo as a mage, make a ton of money from the AH, & fund myself ridiculously better than those who are grinding out heroics .......