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Pulse Security - Trouble

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13

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    #62
    Mick T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Mick T


    MuddyDog wrote: »
    Ok, I'm a final year student and last Wednesday night had an incident with two Pulse Security guards that were patrolling the Merville Campus. I reside in Glenomena and me and two of my friends were walking towards Roebuck Halls through Merville. We had a bottle of wine that was half full and we even bothered to put the corkscrew back in it so that we couldn't have it taken from us as technically it wouldn't be open.

    Anyways....as we were walking by Merville accomodation two of the guards approached us and tried to grab the bottle from us without any prior warning. My friend who was carrying the bottle shielded himself by turning his back to them and passed the bottle onto myself. At this point the other guard basically rugby tackled me and managed to cut my arm in 3 locations. I believe he did this with a set of keys that he was currently holding. It is my belief that they were about to go off duty and get into their car and go home. I managed to hand the bottle of wine to my other friend who then fled the scene.

    My point is that surely I can report these two guards for personal assault as they injured me and the bottle was not even open. They were just on a power trip in my honest opinion. I have attached a photo of the cuts that this security guard inflicted upon me.

    What should I do to try and bring this to higher powers attention???

    Thanks.

    ha ha
    dont ever show that picture to anyone else thats what you do!, my god its like paper cuts on there!
    forget about it and move on! or knock the bollox out of the security guard !:D or go and tell your mammy about it!!:D


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    #63
    alan4cult
    Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭alan4cult


    Mick T wrote: »
    ha ha
    dont ever show that picture to anyone else thats what you do!, my god its like paper cuts on there!
    forget about it and move on! or knock the bollox out of the security guard !:D or go and tell your mammy about it!!:D
    +1

    If the OP thinks that them scrapes constitute cuts then they're having a laugh. I think it's terrible that you were tackled and attacked by security guards (I again have only heard one side of the story) but at the end of the day you were carrying an unsealed* container of alcohol and you did refuse to hand it over to security when requested.

    *by unsealed I mean previously opened, resealed.


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    #64
    MuddyDog
    Registered Users Posts: 1,878 ✭✭✭MuddyDog


    alan4cult wrote: »
    +1

    you did refuse to hand it over to security when requested.

    Read the OP. They didn't request anything. They just came after us without saying anything.


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    #65
    alan4cult
    Registered Users Posts: 1,583 ✭✭✭alan4cult


    MuddyDog wrote: »
    Read the OP. They didn't request anything. They just came after us without saying anything.
    By requesting I mean seizing (sorry I didn't make myself clear), they are perfectly within their rights to seize opened containers of alcohol.


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    #66
    Loco
    Registered Users Posts: 742 ✭✭✭Loco


    alan4cult wrote: »
    +1

    If the OP thinks that them scrapes constitute cuts then they're having a laugh. I think it's terrible that you were tackled and attacked by security guards (I again have only heard one side of the story) but at the end of the day you were carrying an unsealed* container of alcohol and you did refuse to hand it over to security when requested.

    *by unsealed I mean previously opened, resealed.

    So that justifies being rugby tackled to the ground...?


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    #67
    Tayto2000
    Registered Users Posts: 597 ✭✭✭Tayto2000


    OP never said he was knocked to the ground, he said he was 'basically rugby tackled' and possibly scraped with keys. Maybe the rugby reference came in because he was able to get a pass away and hand off the bottle to the friend? :)


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    #68
    sweet-rasmus
    Registered Users Posts: 3,128 ✭✭✭sweet-rasmus


    Have you reported this yet OP? I see someone said that they cannot be considered cuts - the skin was broken and blood was drawn. And someone else who was worried about the security guard loosing his job? Ah come on... Most importantly the witness and OP need to report it together.


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    #69
    hatful
    Closed Accounts Posts: 346 ✭✭hatful


    Surely Guards who are newly on the job aren't allowed to physically restrain, take on anyone on the street. Then how are security guards allowed to do it?


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    #70
    Mick T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Mick T


    two guys walking through the middle of the night no doubt laughing and joking drunk with a bottle of wine in tow, mate i dont think your getting anywhere with this complaint if it does become official, also as a bouncer reasonable force can be used if someone doesnt comply with what is asked, but you say they never even spoke to you? mute security eh?? yeah....


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    #71
    fullstop
    Registered Users Posts: 11,447 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    Mick T wrote: »
    two guys walking through the middle of the night no doubt laughing and joking drunk with a bottle of wine in tow, mate i dont think your getting anywhere with this complaint if it does become official, also as a bouncer reasonable force can be used if someone doesnt comply with what is asked, but you say they never even spoke to you? mute security eh?? yeah....

    On what do you base this? Oh the OP is a student, he must have been acting the bollix. Sure we all know bouncers are perfect :rolleyes:


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    #72
    hatful
    Closed Accounts Posts: 346 ✭✭hatful


    Mick T wrote: »
    two guys walking through the middle of the night no doubt laughing and joking drunk with a bottle of wine in tow, mate i dont think your getting anywhere with this complaint if it does become official, also as a bouncer reasonable force can be used if someone doesnt comply with what is asked, but you say they never even spoke to you? mute security eh?? yeah....

    I don't think it's within their power to touch anyone who isn't exhibiting threatening behaviour, they can make requests and if these are not complied with phone the guards. Shop security can get charged with detaining individuals, assaulting people (yes even if they're shop lifting). Campus security have no right to search you either. Anyone who is walking around campus at night shouldn't feel threatened by security at all they really have no power whatsover. Any legal minds out there feel free to disagree.


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    #73
    Fionnanc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Fionnanc


    Fullstop wrote, "the OP is a student, he must have been acting the bollix"

    Correctomundo


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    #74
    Mick T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Mick T


    Fionnanc wrote: »
    Fullstop wrote, "the OP is a student, he must have been acting the bollix"

    Correctomundo

    lol:D


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    #75
    fullstop
    Registered Users Posts: 11,447 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    Fionnanc wrote: »
    Fullstop wrote, "the OP is a student, he must have been acting the bollix"

    Correctomundo
    Well what are you doing on a students forum? Have you nothing better to be doing?


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    #76
    Mick T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Mick T


    hatful wrote: »
    I don't think it's within their power to touch anyone who isn't exhibiting threatening behaviour, they can make requests and if these are not complied with phone the guards. Shop security can get charged with detaining individuals, assaulting people (yes even if they're shop lifting). Campus security have no right to search you either. Anyone who is walking around campus at night shouldn't feel threatened by security at all they really have no power whatsover. Any legal minds out there feel free to disagree.

    to think the security have no power isnt a very intelligent statement!


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    #77
    fullstop
    Registered Users Posts: 11,447 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    Mick T wrote: »
    i disagree

    Well thats a very compelling point you make there mick, but why exactly? It's assault


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    #78
    Fionnanc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Fionnanc


    Downtime fullstop. Am preparing a Thesis Proposal, today but also hold a professional job. Amongst some of my students, I have noted a distinctive decrease in standards compared to when I qualified. The same trend seems to apply to this forum. Simple descriptions of photographs, something Junior cert students should write compentently, are exagerated and sensationalised. MAybe some perspective is required. Maybe a view of a photo of a real "horrific injury". Google images of compound fractures. Google images of lacerations.

    In summary a bit of self-censorship in injury description; don't be sensational.

    Lastly I believe any citizen can lawfully detain a suspected criminial provided they hand them over promptly to the relevent authority( usually the Gardai)


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    #79
    griffdaddy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,416 ✭✭✭griffdaddy


    Fionnanc wrote: »
    Downtime fullstop. Am preparing a Thesis Proposal, today but also hold a professional job. Amongst some of my students have noted a distinctive decrease in standards compared to when I qualified, the same trend seems to apply to this forum. Simple descriptions of photographs, something Junior cert students should do compentently, are exagerated and sensationilised. MAybe some perspective is required, maybe a view at a photo of a real "horrific injury". Google images of compound fractures. Google images of laceration"

    In summary a bit of self-censorship in injury description, don't be sensational.

    Lastly I believe any citizen can lawfully detain a supected criminial provided they hand them over promptly to the relevent authority( usually the Gardai)

    I wouldn't, be surprised, if you see a decrease in, standards, it's probably a result of your, staggering use of comma.


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    #80
    Fionnanc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Fionnanc


    Grow up Griff Daddy, This is a message board not a formal paper in a peer-reviewed journal. Besides I was not commenting on written English ability, more so attitudes. They complain if they are expected for teaching at 7:30am.


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    #81
    Stabshauptmann
    Registered Users Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭Stabshauptmann


    Fionnanc wrote: »
    I believe any citizen can lawfully detain a suspected criminial provided they hand them over promptly to the relevent authority( usually the Gardai)

    A security guard has exactly the same powers of arrest as any ordinary citizen - no more and no less. Any citizen may arrest a person whom he reasonably suspects of commiting an arrestable offence (one that carries a maximum penalty of 5 years imprisonment or more for a first offence) AND if he reasonably believes that otherwise the person to be arrested will attempt to evade arrest by the Gardai. Any such arrest, and any reasonable force used to effect it will not be unlawful. This is so even if it turns out that arrested person has not committed an offence. However, in that case the arresting citizen may be sued in the civil courts for false imprisonment and possibly assault.

    A Garda (or the State) cannot be sued in these circumstances simply because the reasonable suspicion turns out to be wrong.


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    #82
    Fionnanc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Fionnanc


    Punctuation and spelling errors corrected GriffDaddy. Please bring to my attention any mistakes in my grammer.


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    #83
    Fionnanc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Fionnanc


    I believe Gardai can be held responsible for unlawful arrest, though I suspect as a corporate identy while the arresting citizen is individually liable.
    Of note if you catch somebody littering and they refuse to pick it up, the lawful authority would be the local litter warden that will prepare a district court case, witness statments being admissable evidence.
    Is being drunk in a public place still an arrestable offence? I have read of rumours of the gardai being given powers to impose fines instead of arrest and district court appearance.


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    #84
    Stabshauptmann
    Registered Users Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭Stabshauptmann


    hatful wrote: »
    I don't think it's within their power to touch anyone who isn't exhibiting threatening behaviour

    They have the same rights as the property owner; they can use reasonable force to remove a trespasser.
    They can also use reasonable force in situations where an ordinary citizen could eg to detain someone in the event of a citizen' arrest (as can anyone) and in self defence.
    they can make requests and if these are not complied with phone the guards.
    Not really. It depends on what you are doing.
    Shop security can get charged with detaining individuals, assaulting people (yes even if they're shop lifting).
    Depends on the circumstances.
    Campus security have no right to search you either.
    100% correct

    *Nothing in this post should be seen as legal advice


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    #85
    jim o doom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭jim o doom


    Only Gardai have the right to search you, and you have the legal right to demand they do it in a Garda station & not in public. You can't have private property confiscated by a third party unless you agree to it either, to my knowledge that is. As far as I am concerned, if one or two security gards had attacked me in that fashion, both of them would be badly injured, as I'm into self defence & find these jumped up little g!mps who weren't able to make it in Templemore and must revert to rentacop status to be detestable scum most of the time. But thats just me and I get very reactionary when people violently & illegally invade my personal space. I'd definitely make a complaint, especially as ye have witnesses to the act, and there are probably cameras in the area too. Plus no Gard in their right mind would ever "lunge" for a drink without first informing the person holding it, unlike these idiot security gards who attacked you.The reasons the gards wouldn't do that would be that (a) it's illegal & (b) the person holding the bottle might just suddenly decide to use it as a blunt weapon & then as a sharp one as soon as it was broken.


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    #86
    Stabshauptmann
    Registered Users Posts: 4,885 ✭✭✭Stabshauptmann


    Fionnanc wrote: »
    I believe Gardai can be held responsible for unlawful arrest, though I suspect as a corporate identy while the arresting citizen is individually liable.
    Of note if you catch somebody littering and they refuse to pick it up, the lawful authority would be the local litter warden that will prepare a district court case, witness statments being admissable evidence.
    Is being drunk in a public place still an arrestable offence? I have read of rumours of the gardai being given powers to impose fines instead of arrest and district court appearance.
    I dont know, perhaps these people would
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=633


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    #87
    Mick T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭Mick T


    fullstop wrote: »
    Well thats a very compelling point you make there mick, but why exactly? It's assault

    we have only heard one side of the story here to be honest, but if i were a solicitor , id still take the security guy as my client!


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    #88
    fullstop
    Registered Users Posts: 11,447 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    Fionnanc wrote: »
    Punctuation and spelling errors corrected GriffDaddy. Please bring to my attention any mistakes in my grammer.

    Irony?


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    #89
    Fionnanc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Fionnanc


    Thanks for the link Kaptain Redeye.

    Jim O doom. Be careful, private security tend to hire retired soldiers and gardai, I doubt you would be able to injure them. Notably a lot of the Eastern Europen lads working in security would have don military service in their home countries. More than a match for a non-conscripted, non-militarised Irish man.


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    #90
    Fionnanc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭Fionnanc


    I believe the word you are trying to find is sarcasm, Beavis


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    #91
    jim o doom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭jim o doom


    Fionnanc wrote: »
    Thanks for the link Kaptain Redeye.

    Jim O doom. Be careful, private security tend to hire retired soldiers and gardai, I doubt you would be able to injure them. Notably a lot of the Eastern Europen lads working in security would have don military service in their home countries. More than a match for a non-conscripted, non-militarised Irish man.

    You are entirely correct in that manner - I've about 2 years to go to black belt, mind I am not saying I would suddenly attack some security gards that were giving me crap, on the other hand, if someone had their hands on me in any fashion (and when I mean any fashion I mean they are attacking me), regardless of race creed or colour im going to take that person down.In my favour im 14 stone, angry as a shaved badger & fairly quick.The best way is explode & then run like almighty hell from whatever damage you've just done. But I'm not suggesting attacking any sort of securit personnel ever, I am talking about defending yourself from an attacker, regardless of the fact that they are security or not. Who is to say these security types arn't going to try and injure you if you act in a pacific fashion? clearly these boys with their corked bottle of wine were basically "jumped" by two grown men.Go for the knee then leg it.


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