DART - Awful service

Vanbis

I find that irish rail fine with the dart service and i have used for two years and only remember a about 4/5 dealys and i two of those were a bridge strike. The signs you see on the trains like 96% run on time, well irish rail only cound a train as late if its more then 5minutes just to let you know.

One i do agree with is waiting for over 20min for a train, im sure they have enough extra darts to run but they probably dont think its worth while or dont have the staff.

BluntGuy

Only interconnector can save the DART now, but that's looking quite doubtful in light of the recent economic developments.

Until then, I'm afraid we'll have to continue using a service that takes pride it its utter randomness.

patrickbrophy18

If the construction industry is doing so badly due to the realtively low demand for property development in the commercial and residential sector, why don't they pump this cash into all of the Transport 21 projects? Forget the phased nature of these developments. The Interconnector, new DART line extensions (Maynooth, Hazelhatch, Balbriggan etc.), Metro lines and Luas extensions need to be completed ASAP!!. It would certainly be of major benefit to me.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Are we there yet?

thebman

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

If the construction industry is doing so badly due to the realtively low demand for property development in the commercial and residential sector, why don't they pump this cash into all of the Transport 21 projects? Forget the phased nature of these developments. The Interconnector, new DART line extensions (Maynooth, Hazelhatch, Balbriggan etc.), Metro lines and Luas extensions need to be completed ASAP!!. It would certainly be of major benefit to me.

I think the whole problem is that there is no cash.

patrickbrophy18

brim4brim wrote: »

I think the whole problem is that there is no cash.

The other day I was walking from Connolly down the IFSC. The Luas Point Depot extension seems to have been at a stand still for the last year. From what I can see, only one pilon has been installed over a period of four months. Fair enough, there was a reconfiguration of the Connolly Luas tracks. However, it is a joke that this is how far they have gone in the last year. The project should be a quarter to a half complete by now.

In other cities many times bigger than Dublin, it is possible to get from one extreme side to the other in an hour or in some cases half an hour. The Transport 21 plan while a massive improvement to the current mess, is still very minimal considering that Dublin is a capital city. In this day and age there should be at least 5 seperate DART lines in the Greater Dublin Area. If there are going to be more metro lines they should access all of the main industrial estates around the M50 having a station in each with very frequent DART feeder buses if they are spread out enough.

loyatemu

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

The other day I was walking from Connolly down the IFSC. The Luas Point Depot extension seems to have been at a stand still for the last year. From what I can see, only one pilon has been installed over a period of four months. Fair enough, there was a reconfiguration of the Connolly Luas tracks. However, it is a joke that this is how far they have gone in the last year. The project should be a quarter to a half complete by now.

they have been working fairly continuously on this - mostly utility diversion which they've now completed, and track laying is about to start (it's already started closer to the Point). Having said this, its still taking them 3 years to build a mile of tramline, and its not going to do anything for city traffic.

thebman

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

The other day I was walking from Connolly down the IFSC. The Luas Point Depot extension seems to have been at a stand still for the last year. From what I can see, only one pilon has been installed over a period of four months. Fair enough, there was a reconfiguration of the Connolly Luas tracks. However, it is a joke that this is how far they have gone in the last year. The project should be a quarter to a half complete by now.

Not saying it shouldn't be half way done, I don't know the reasons for the delay. That should be something that should be looked into. There could be acceptable reasons for the delay or something that you can make sure doesn't happen again.

In other cities many times bigger than Dublin, it is possible to get from one extreme side to the other in an hour or in some cases half an hour. The Transport 21 plan while a massive improvement to the current mess, is still very minimal considering that Dublin is a capital city. In this day and age there should be at least 5 seperate DART lines in the Greater Dublin Area. If there are going to be more metro lines they should access all of the main industrial estates around the M50 having a station in each with very frequent DART feeder buses if they are spread out enough.

Trust me I'd love that since I commute but you need a real proper plan and the finances to implement the plan.

I think we never had the first and we just ran out of the second thing we needed.

patrickbrophy18

brim4brim wrote: »

Not saying it shouldn't be half way done, I don't know the reasons for the delay. That should be something that should be looked into. There could be acceptable reasons for the delay or something that you can make sure doesn't happen again.



Trust me I'd love that since I commute but you need a real proper plan and the finances to implement the plan.

I think we never had the first and we just ran out of the second thing we needed.

Because of the bailout?

markpb

brim4brim wrote: »

Trust me I'd love that since I commute but you need a real proper plan and the finances to implement the plan. I think we never had the first and we just ran out of the second thing we needed.

What we need in this country is the political will to make public transport a reasonable alternative to the car.

What we have instead are a bunch of windbag politicians who only care about winning the next election. They can promise the world safe in the knowledge that as long as a few extra miles of road are built each year, Irish people won't punish them (electorally) for not building train lines.

thebman

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Because of the bailout?

Well more because we are about 4 billion short this year and probably more next year with the governments budgets.

We can only run so much of a deficit each year and I read that the bail out is affecting Irelan'd credit ranking so we'll have a harder time borrowing the money to complete these projects now.

I agree we desparately need the infastrucuture and I don't think it's a bad idea to borrow for infastructure because it will pay itself off in the long run but I don't think our government sees it that way.

They are more worried about the headline in the papers than the benefits to the country like someone else has said. They only want to get elected so while it would be wonderful to have, it won't happen under this government.

patrickbrophy18

brim4brim wrote: »

Well more because we are about 4 billion short this year and probably more next year with the governments budgets.

We can only run so much of a deficit each year and I read that the bail out is affecting Irelan'd credit ranking so we'll have a harder time borrowing the money to complete these projects now.

I agree we desparately need the infastrucuture and I don't think it's a bad idea to borrow for infastructure because it will pay itself off in the long run but I don't think our government sees it that way.

They are more worried about the headline in the papers than the benefits to the country like someone else has said. They only want to get elected so while it would be wonderful to have, it won't happen under this government.

Unfortunately the people of this country aren't really considered when it comes to this kind of demand. At least when private operators run services like the Swords Express and the Patton Flyer they think about one thing, the consumer. I know that these aren't train services but the principle is the same. In my opinion, the rail network should have remained under private ownership.

Pablo Sanchez

Sorry to reopen an old thread but is there a solution to the 'problem' of Greystones's single track?

Is it out of the question to ever expect a second track to Bray? Its well over a 100 years since the original track was laid, im sure engineering has moved on since Brunels day, can we not at least match the achievements of the 19th century?

ixoy

Pablo Sanchez wrote: »

Sorry to reopen an old thread but is there a solution to the 'problem' of Greystones's single track?

I imagine the money to create a second track there could be much better invested in working on solutions to the far more heavily-congested commuter/ Northern lines...

Pablo Sanchez

ixoy wrote: »

I imagine the money to create a second track there could be much better invested in working on solutions to the far more heavily-congested commuter/ Northern lines...

Since when do we have to ignore one problem just cause there are problems elsewhere?

dowlingm

IIRC there would be an issue of whether to move the tracks inland a bit for coastal erosion reasons if one were doing any improvements, and doing that would drive up the cost substantially due either to tunnelling or taking on the adjacent high ground with cuttings. In fact can someone confirm that some of the tunnels were already moved inland once before? Certainly looks like it in places.

Live Maps has birdseye aerial pictures of the line near Bray at tricky spots like here

Zebra3

As handy as it is to point the finger at politicans for bad planning, the politicans gave the people what they wanted, all living in 3 and 4 bedroom houses.

Low density suburbs do now make rail transport viable.

The people got what they deserved.

Alun

dowlingm wrote: »

IIRC there would be an issue of whether to move the tracks inland a bit for coastal erosion reasons if one were doing any improvements, and doing that would drive up the cost substantially due either to tunnelling or taking on the adjacent high ground with cuttings. In fact can someone confirm that some of the tunnels were already moved inland once before? Certainly looks like it in places.

Live Maps has birdseye aerial pictures of the line near Bray at tricky spots like here

There is one place where the line collapsed into the sea and was re routed slightly inland a bit further along than that, here and a bit to the south. You can clearly see where the new tunnel was built, and where the old and new routes meet up. Can't remember when it happened, but I don't think it was that long after it was first built.

Cool Mo D

Zebra3 wrote: »

As handy as it is to point the finger at politicans for bad planning, the politicans gave the people what they wanted, all living in 3 and 4 bedroom houses.

Low density suburbs do now make rail transport viable.

The people got what they deserved.

4 bedroom houses are perfectly dense for rail transport. Greater London, for example has a very similar density to suburban Dublin and has plenty of rail. The real killer to rail is one-off housing just outside the built up area, and people working in Dublin and living in housing estates in villages in Meath and Wicklow, where no train service will reach them.

You might notice that the DART is in suburban 4-bed territory practically it's entire route outside the city centre.

Zebra3

Cool Mo D wrote: »

4 bedroom houses are perfectly dense for rail transport. Greater London, for example has a very similar density to suburban Dublin and has plenty of rail. The real killer to rail is one-off housing just outside the built up area, and people working in Dublin and living in housing estates in villages in Meath and Wicklow, where no train service will reach them.

You might notice that the DART is in suburban 4-bed territory practically it's entire route outside the city centre.

You should have a look at how they do it in Copenhagen, a city slightly bigger than Dublin, but with a much higher density along its rail lines.

loyatemu

Zebra3 wrote: »

As handy as it is to point the finger at politicans for bad planning, the politicans gave the people what they wanted, all living in 3 and 4 bedroom houses.

Low density suburbs do now make rail transport viable.

The people got what they deserved.

the question isn't about whether the Dart is viable or successful, (it is both, though "viable" is a relative word in public transport terms). The Greystones service is very popular and given its limitations, well-used.

I don't think we'll ever see a second line though - the cost and disruption would be astronomical, just to improve frequency to a medium-sized suburb. Its not just the tunnels and the cliff-top line around bray head, it runs through a rock cutting in the centre of Greystones as well.

There's definitely scope for improving the frequency slightly though - there's a 1 hour gap in service between 0830 and 0930 for a start.

Cookie_Monster

Do commuter trains stop in Greystones? If not then surely this would be an instant easy way to increase capacity, if the Arklow/Gorey/Rosslare trains stopped here on their way in.out of town.

camel toe

irish are the most passive people in the world, we dont care about anything. i prefer the 'ah sure it il be grand attitude but it wont get you very far.

just back from berlin...OMG that is a good transport system

Victor

Cool Mo D wrote: »

4 bedroom houses are perfectly dense for rail transport. Greater London, for example has a very similar density to suburban Dublin and has plenty of rail. The real killer to rail is one-off housing just outside the built up area, and people working in Dublin and living in housing estates in villages in Meath and Wicklow, where no train service will reach them.

You might notice that the DART is in suburban 4-bed territory practically it's entire route outside the city centre.

Actually, all along the DART line you will see a lot more apartments than in other parts of the city.

London is quite different, especially insofar as you won't find agricultural levels of landuse within about 1-4km of the city centre.

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=swx7jcggbvcc&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=29503621&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=swv8bkgg8nx7&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=29502979&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=swskczgg8q41&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=29507461&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=swn9p8gg7y0t&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=29510007&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1

KC61

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Do commuter trains stop in Greystones? If not then surely this would be an instant easy way to increase capacity, if the Arklow/Gorey/Rosslare trains stopped here on their way in.out of town.

They already do.

Really, Greystones should be served by a Bray-Greystones shuttle DART connecting with through DART services at Bray.

loyatemu

or supplement the existing service with a shuttle - the Alstom dart units seem to spend most of their time sitting in Fairview - maybe they could be used.

my main qualm about a shuttle service would be that while the shuttle would probably be fairly punctual (not too much scope for delays), DARTs arriving in Bray from town are regularly 5-10 mins late. If you got to Bray and found the shuttle had gone, you'd have at least a 20 minute wait for it to come back (probably more like 30 mins). It already takes 55 mins to get from Connolly to Greystones, which is pretty damn slow.

Victor

loyatemu wrote: »

or supplement the existing service with a shuttle - the Alstom dart units seem to spend most of their time sitting in Fairview - maybe they could be used.

Those units are the most tempremental of all and you probably don't want them breaking down on a section of single track, thereby blocking everything.

dowlingm

loyatemu wrote: »

I don't think we'll ever see a second line though - the cost and disruption would be astronomical, just to improve frequency to a medium-sized suburb.

Pity nobody told the NRA that with respect to the M11/N11. However, if the Earl of Meath hadn't apparently donated the Bray Head area for the railway rather than have it go through Kilruddery, we wouldn't have to worry about the line falling into the Irish Sea again.