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McCain suspends campaign

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    #32
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    is_that_so wrote: »
    That's politics and your perception.
    It is the americans' perception that Obama has better judgement at handling the economy over McCain. McCain knows this too so he is trying more risky moves i.e. saying he will suspend his campaign - purely to try and get some political gain, not to help in the crisis since he will be bringing presidential politics into the bipartisan discussions which won't help the situation.
    is_that_so wrote: »
    Not sure what the cave stuff is about but if it means yet another dig at Palin, then it must be good.
    Palin is constantly being kept away from journalist's questions e.g. the speed dating of foreign leaders without any questions from the media - completely staged and scripted. They obviously know she wouldn't be able to handle those situations by her own initiative nor be able to give intelligent answers to reporter's questions.


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    #33
    Otacon
    Registered Users Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    is_that_so wrote: »
    The word is perception, a feature and factor in politics.

    Very true. What do you think American voters will percieve this move to be? A trip back to Washington, where McCain has actually said he has no real expertise in this issue? A way of putting unnecessary pressure on the talks that could de-stablise them by putting presidential politics into the pot? A cynical method of shifting the story from Obama's gathering momentum?


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    #34
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    axer wrote: »
    It is the americans' perception that Obama has better judgement at handling the economy over McCain. McCain knows this too so he is trying more risky moves i.e. saying he will suspend his campaign - purely to try and get some political gain, not to help in the crisis since he will be bringing presidential politics into the bipartisan discussions which won't help the situation.
    Otacon wrote: »
    Very true. What do you think American voters will percieve this move to be? A trip back to Washington, where McCain has actually said he has no real expertise in this issue? A way of putting unnecessary pressure on the talks that could de-stablise them by putting presidential politics into the pot? A cynical method of shifting the story from Obama's gathering momentum?

    I have no idea what their perception is but the crisis is certainly of more importance than anything else at present. They also get to vote on this and we don't.


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    #35
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    is_that_so wrote: »
    I have no idea what their perception is but the crisis is certainly of more importance than anything else at present. They also get to vote on this and we don't.

    More important then a 2 hour debate on that very subject? What could done in those two hours that will fix the situation?

    I would say it would be more important to determine who is best to deal with the mess come the new year.


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    #36
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Hobbes wrote: »
    More important then a 2 hour debate on that very subject? What could done in those two hours that will fix the situation?

    I would say it would be more important to determine who is best to deal with the mess come the new year.

    I think both are important. Both candidates in my view need to allay fears that they won't have any answers. Their actions this week can help show that. Remember "Emperor Bush" with Katrina.

    I don't think the debates should be cancelled, but I can see why time this week might be better spent addressing the bailout plan. The problem with this week's debate is that it stands out by virtue of the fact that they'll be talking about things that are not quite as important at present.


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    #37
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    is_that_so wrote: »
    I think both are important. Both candidates in my view need to allay fears that they won't have any answers.

    Actually Obama already clearly laid out his plans on dealing with the crisis some time ago. It is worth a read.

    http://www.clipsandcomment.com/2008/09/19/full-text-obama-statement-on-economic-crisis-coral-gables-fl/

    If someone knows of McCains plan please let me know.


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    #38
    sink
    Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Are you suggesting that it's a good thing that these two high-profile Senators, one of which is going to be in charge of whatever comes out of the legislation, should not be particularly involved in the wheeling/dealing which is required for the legislation to be created, and the two candidates for President should instead leave it to everyone else?

    No I'm not saying the should not be involved but there are things today called mobile phones, video conferencing and private jets and both candidates are fully equipped. What they are not required to do is to act as a party whip knocking on doors and coordinating on the ground which would require their presence in Washington.
    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Besides, don't forget that the People of the Great States of Illinois and Arizona both voted their Senators into office to work on their behalf. I'm sure when it comes down to something this important that they wouldn't mind their Senators actually doing a bit of Senatorial work.

    NTM

    Senatorial work does not require them to sit in their Washington office.


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    #39
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,259 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Hobbes wrote: »
    More important then a 2 hour debate on that very subject? What could done in those two hours that will fix the situation?
    I understand the plan is to get them both back to washington along with the rest of the government to iron out a non-partisan solution.

    True enough, the economy should not be turned into a partisan issue right now. Bad timing, but true.


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    #40
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    So it's not possible to host a 90-minute debate in Washington instead of wherever (most of the questions are coming via e-mail) as well as appear in the Senate?


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    #41
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/185681/september-24-2008/stephen-suspends-the-show


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    #42
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Hobbes wrote: »
    Actually Obama already clearly laid out his plans on dealing with the crisis some time ago. It is worth a read.

    http://www.clipsandcomment.com/2008/09/19/full-text-obama-statement-on-economic-crisis-coral-gables-fl/

    If someone knows of McCains plan please let me know.

    Can anyone prove that the plan will work since this current one is on a wing and a prayer?


    TBH at this moment it doesn't matter who said what. That kind of thing is like a playground spat.

    I see what he said but can he walk the walk? This is what this is about. It is all well and good to write speeches and plans but can either of them be trusted when there is action to be taken? A plan without action is worthless. As Obama keeps saying "The time is now". This is about perception of their actions.

    Americans don't seem to trust either based on this.


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    #43
    Ludo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    It is still about the policies and not who can get their policies implemented. If you disagree with someones policies why vote for him just coz he can "get them done".
    It would still be better to vote for someone who only may get some things done if ya understand me...probably not explaining myself very well as typing this very quickly.
    (not that I am saying Obama cannot get things done and McCain can by the way)


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    #44
    galwaydude
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭galwaydude


    John McCain is running scared. It is just a tactic to make it seem like he cares about the economy. He doesnt have a clue. I hope finally America wakes up and stops Bush mark ii getting in. If not then its another miserable 4 years. Look what he has done with Sarah Palin, she has been shielded from the press for the last few weeks. I wonder why.

    This country is screwed if the general american public vote McCain in. Granted i am not fan of Obama either but what is the alternative. This country is so corrupt its laughable with all the AIG, Fannie Mae and Lehman Brothers baggage. I hope the FBI get them for fraud.


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    #45
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,259 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Even according to O'reilly, the situation is at a stage where regardless of who you vote for, the end result will probably pan out the same either way. For instance there will be little/no room to implement socialized healthcare (by obama's own admission) and tax levels are likely to remain the same.

    http://www.foxnews.com/oreilly/ (frontpage video)


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    #46
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Can anyone prove that the plan will work since this current one is on a wing and a prayer?

    Which do you think is better? Having a plan? Or not having one?
    TBH at this moment it doesn't matter who said what. That kind of thing is like a playground spat.

    I think it is a big deal. Obama showing bipartisanship first, and then McCain trying to win points by claiming he thought of it.
    I see what he said but can he walk the walk?

    I guess it is easier for McCain to walk when he doesn't have a plan?
    A plan without action is worthless.

    Action without a plan is sheer stupidity.


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    #47
    galwaydude
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭galwaydude


    The reason been is that we are broke, with all the Wall street going on it is going to suck every penny away from the causes that really matter in this country like affordable healthcare etc.

    I just dont want another 4 years of a bush administration or dare i say it a palin administration. If that happens we are truly screwed. What is the view down south Overheal.


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    #48
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Appears McCain has a plan. He wants a committee set up to investigate why it happened. Turns out most of the people who would be investigated are on his bus.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122221440058969313.html
    Americans don't seem to trust either based on this.

    Funny because most news reports I see show Obama in the lead by 9 points because of the crisis.

    btw, that plan Obama had, everything except the 7 point plan was a joint statement from Obama+McCain it turns out.


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    #49
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    sink wrote: »
    No I'm not saying the should not be involved but there are things today called mobile phones, video conferencing and private jets and both candidates are fully equipped. What they are not required to do is to act as a party whip knocking on doors and coordinating on the ground which would require their presence in Washington.

    Ultimately, nothing is as efficient as a face-to-face conversation. If something is particularly important, in person is the best way of doing it. Besides, don't party whips usually keep their own party in line, as opposed to talking to everyone?

    NTM


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    #50
    sink
    Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭sink


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Ultimately, nothing is as efficient as a face-to-face conversation. If something is particularly important, in person is the best way of doing it. Besides, don't party whips usually keep their own party in line, as opposed to talking to everyone?

    NTM

    While I agree that nothing is as effective as face-to-face communications, video conferencing is a good substitute. Video conferencing is much better for efficiently managing tight time constraints and it does not get much tighter than a presidential campaign. Taking 2-3 days off to deal with one issue is not efficiently managing ones time imho. And while face-to-face communications is marginally more effective it is not so much more effective that it is likely to make a huge difference to the outcome.


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    #51
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Hobbes wrote: »
    Which do you think is better? Having a plan? Or not having one?

    Did I say no plan was a good idea or is that just your assumption?

    I think it is a big deal. Obama showing bipartisanship first, and then McCain trying to win points by claiming he thought of it.

    And this is different from a playground spat how?
    I guess it is easier for McCain to walk when he doesn't have a plan?

    It applies to both as far as I am concerned.
    Action without a plan is sheer stupidity.

    It is but who knows whether the plan can be trusted. The only plan in play is the Paulson-Bernake plan.


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    #52
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Hobbes wrote: »
    Appears McCain has a plan. He wants a committee set up to investigate why it happened. Turns out most of the people who would be investigated are on his bus.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122221440058969313.html

    Funny because most news reports I see show Obama in the lead by 9 points because of the crisis.

    btw, that plan Obama had, everything except the 7 point plan was a joint statement from Obama+McCain it turns out.

    Not seeing that 9%. Polls I have seen today suggest 3% at most.


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    #53
    Hobbes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    is_that_so wrote: »
    And this is different from a playground spat how?

    I wouldn't say spat, McCain being childish. I mean did you see his interview that he dumped Letterman for? Keeps going on about "waaa, he wouldn't come to townhall with me" but he seems to have no problem avoiding the debates.

    He even dodges his earlier comment of the economy being strong and the gall to talk about Obama pork projects but avoids points on Palin.

    To add to that he hugely inflated Obamas pork numbers by a factor of 3. He also fails to point out what that money was spent on. I can assure you it wasn't a bridge to nowhere.
    It is but who knows whether the plan can be trusted.

    Again it is better to have a plan then none. As for can it be trusted, you have the plan to review. What do you think? Or do you just say it can't be trusted without even knowing what it is he is proposing?
    Not seeing that 9%. Links?

    Thats because I said 9 points. You know the bit you put in bold text.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0924/breaking3.htm


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    #54
    FatherTed
    Registered Users Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭FatherTed


    When I first saw the headline "McCain suspends Campaign" yesterday, I honestly thought he had some medical problem. I would have to say some of his decisions have been knee-jerk or reactionary e.g.

    Firing his campaign manager a few months back
    Picking Palin out of the blue
    Suspending the start of the convention

    And now this. Not the stability a president should provide.


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    #55
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    I think the McCain camp are more worried about Palin's debate than their own so they want to miss the Friday debate and have that moved to next week when the VP debate is supposed to be on. They are hoping that either the VP debate never happens as a result or that it will at least give palin more time to prepare.

    What will palin be doing whilst McCain is fixing the economy and whilst she cannot campaign?


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    #56
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    The way I see is that there is 100 senators in the US, Obama and McCain are only 2 so there absence is not going to be a huge downer.

    More importantly one of these two is going to be president of the US in 3 months, and I think its highly important that people find out what theyre about. Maybe McCain just wants a reason not to face Obama one on one for an hour and a half in front of 40 million Americans.


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    #57
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 83,259 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    galwaydude wrote: »
    What is the view down south Overheal.

    *shrug*

    http://www.foxnews.com/oreilly/winning-the-electoral-college/

    Its the Bible Belt.


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    #58
    galwaydude
    Registered Users Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭galwaydude


    He appeared on a cooking show with Rachael ray for gods sake, has this man any dignity. I hope the american public wise up to his antics.

    The whole world is watching.


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    #59
    Craft25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 470 ✭✭Craft25


    galwaydude wrote: »
    He appeared on a cooking show with Rachael ray for gods sake, has this man any dignity. I hope the american public wise up to his antics.

    The whole world is watching.

    did he really??.. are you saying that because of lettermans joke last night.. i was under the impression that Letterman made that up for comic effect!!
    i know he's inept but that would take the biscuit!!

    I reckon the whole "maverick" tag is gonna backfire... if obama plays it right and ties the whole "shoots from the hip" and the "3am phonecall" together to play on both economic and security fears, it could spell the end for mcCain


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    #60
    axer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,517 ✭✭✭axer


    Craft25 wrote: »
    did he really??.. are you saying that because of lettermans joke last night.. i was under the impression that Letterman made that up for comic effect!!
    i know he's inept but that would take the biscuit!!

    I reckon the whole "maverick" tag is gonna backfire... if obama plays it right and ties the whole "shoots from the hip" and the "3am phonecall" together to play on both economic and security fears, it could spell the end for mcCain
    http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=lsDh4cjfb_A

    In fairness though, the economy can wait until the ribs are cooked.


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    #61
    Craft25
    Closed Accounts Posts: 470 ✭✭Craft25


    when was that?? i take it before he announced his suspension?! i read somewhere that only monday he proclaimed the sound fundamentals of the economy, before his big Uturn.. doesnt surprise me him going on it, she has a key target audience after all.. and the other guy has oprah wrapped up


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