Mr Perfect DVD

Firewalkwithme

I'm just watching the Mr Perfect DVD now, man its such a shame he is gone. The main portion of the DVD is more tribute than biography which was a little disappointing but there's a ton a matches to watch and I've only just started on them.

Chris Jericho says at one point that Hennig is the greatest wrestler never to have been world champion but I believe that the AWA championship was widely considered to be a 'proper' world title when he held it - what do you think? Personally I'd give Barry Windham the dubious honour of the best that never was - and he certainly should have been a world champ too.

ShawnRaven

The AWA title hadn't been a proper title since Nick Bockwinkel dropped it to Hennig, basically because the AWA was in such poor shape at the stage that by the time Hennig got it, he was the only legit person who could probably carry the title for the promotion as Vince had acquired a lot of his talent. Sure after Hennig went, Verne put the belt on Stan Hansen, Rick Martel, to the point where he just said "f*ck it!" and threw it on his son in law, Larry Zybysco (sp?) because he wasn't going to go anywhere.

Hennig was a last ditch attempt of a legit titleholder for the AWA, Bockwinkel knew it, Hennig knew it, and Verne knew it. It was a far cry from the WWE title by the time he won it, let's be honest.

Onto the DVD, i was disappointed in the length of it, running at 1hr and 15 minutes. It pales in comparison to the Pillman DVD. But it more than makes up for it with the matches, and has some awesome easter eggs, one including Hennig smashing up the WWE title on SNME in 1989 (but i'll leave it up to you to find that one).

I'll agree with you on Windham in NWA/WCW though, he got f*cked over rightly.
VR!

Shaneomac

There was a lot of great wrestlers around that time never to reach the top. Arn Anderson and Piper are the ones that stick out. Did Ted dibiase ever win the big one? Gotta remember though in Perfects case the ic title was worth a lot more back then and being champ spoke volumes for the guys talent. Was one of my favourites as a 7 year old, alongside Michaels and Savage my only regrets is discounting his last return to wwe before his death, dont think I ever saw him in the ring again after he didnt wrestle on Razor Ramons Survivor Series team as didnt have wcw. Did I miss much during Hennings wcw run?

ShawnRaven

Shaneomac wrote: »

my only regrets is discounting his last return to wwe before his death, dont think I ever saw him in the ring again after he didnt wrestle on Razor Ramons Survivor Series team as didnt have wcw. Did I miss much during Hennings wcw run?

Hindsight is 20/20. I'm partially the same, but looking back and how he made some of the younger talent look like a million bucks in 2002, I'd have loved to have seen that Perfect/Edge match from Heat again for posterity's sake.

Hennig's WCW run was far from spectacular to be honest. You haven't missed much that wasn't already covered on the Horseman or Perfect DVD. Just like Bret, WCW didn't really know how to use him. Also Hennig kinda went there anyway to spite Vince after Vince contacted Lloyds Of London and told em that he'd be working for him on a regular basis, which ended Hennig's big pay cheques from them as he was milking his injury apparently, and Hennig had a huge insurance policy with them.

Hell, you'll see the Bret/Hennig match from 1998 was anything but a give star classic, with the amount of blown spots (from both guys) in it. It was hard to watch given how spoilt we were with their WWE work.

VR!

D-FENS

In terms of WWE/F, the fact that Henning and Rude never won the big one but Khali has is pretty laughable alright. Piper being denied is arguable as his gimmick never really needed it I thought, not by the late 80’s / early 90’s anyway. Even when he won the IC title, I know they made a fuss of it being his first WWF belt, but you got the impression he would have swapped it for a bottle of bag pipe cleaning fluid if need be (Bit like “King” Hacksaw Jim Duggan, who didn’t really give a cr*p about that either). You could argue DiBiase never needed the world title either, certainly not after the introduction of the million dollar title.

Cactus Col

I think though back in the 80's it was much easier to build up heels to the point that they were main event workers, without having to put a title on their waist. People like Rick Rude and Million Dollar Man Ted DeBiase played their gimmicks perfectly, garnering hate from fans like you wouldn't believe.

These days it's not so easy to do. There is a tendancy to use the topd titles to legitimise wrestlers, rather than wrestlers legitimising the title. JBL, played the rich heel better than anyone since DiBiase, need edthe title before he was taken seriously in the main event (And at the time he was the best heel in the business). Great Kahli, was given the title to prove how much a monster he was. And more recently CM Punk has been legitimised by the World Heavyweight title.

D-FENS

Cactus Col wrote: »

I think though back in the 80's it was much easier to build up heels to the point that they were main event workers, without having to put a title on their waist. People like Rick Rude and Million Dollar Man Ted DeBiase played their gimmicks perfectly, garnering hate from fans like you wouldn't believe.

These days it's not so easy to do. There is a tendancy to use the topd titles to legitimise wrestlers, rather than wrestlers legitimising the title. JBL, played the rich heel better than anyone since DiBiase, need edthe title before he was taken seriously in the main event (And at the time he was the best heel in the business). Great Kahli, was given the title to prove how much a monster he was. And more recently CM Punk has been legitimised by the World Heavyweight title.

I hear what you’re saying about some guys like JBL and Punk getting the title to get them noticed (I don’t agree about Khali, he was already a proven monster, monster prove their status by laying guys out, not by winning world titles, so if anyone didn’t need the belt it was him, not to mention how cr*p he is full stop and should'nt have been within 50 ft of that belt), but although Henning and Rude’s characters didn’t need the title to get them heat, storylines with them as champions could have been brilliant (If done properly) – Imagine that finish with Heenan helping Rude beat Warrior but for the WWF title? Or Perfect escaping matches with the likes of Hogan/Savage with the belt by the skin of his teeth? (Actually, people here might hate that concept if they have so big a problem with Y2J at the moment!). Plus, even just for record book / history purposes, not having those two associated with the WWF title is a shame in my view.

ShawnRaven

D-FENS wrote: »

In terms of WWE/F, the fact that Henning and Rude never won the big one but Khali has is pretty laughable alright. Piper being denied is arguable as his gimmick never really needed it I thought, not by the late 80’s / early 90’s anyway. Even when he won the IC title, I know they made a fuss of it being his first WWF belt, but you got the impression he would have swapped it for a bottle of bag pipe cleaning fluid if need be (Bit like “King” Hacksaw Jim Duggan, who didn’t really give a cr*p about that either). You could argue DiBiase never needed the world title either, certainly not after the introduction of the million dollar title.

There's a lot of ugly politics in a lot of cases here.

Hennig was groomed for a main event push against Hogan (scheduled by winning the 1990 Royal Rumble), not sure about a title win though. Hogan vetoed it though, and not only did he refuse to put him over, but he made sure he'd win the Rumble (despite already being WWE champion at the time), but he made sure that he was booked to be the first person to end his perfect record (it wasn't televised, but he and Warrior had wins over Hennig before Beefcake took it on PPV at Wrestlemania that year).

Rude was also groomed for main event status too in 1990, but he and Vince had a massive dispute over the Summerslam payoff that year, so Rude handed in his notice and went to WCW, while Vince had him written out of the storylines as being "suspended" during the Boss Mans mother feud.

DiBiase was pencilled to win the title at Wrestlemania IV, most people know that story, but the long and short of it was, Honky refused to drop the IC title to Savage on TV in February 88, and Savage retorted by threatening to shoot on Honky on live TV. Vince to keep everyone happy, left Honky with the IC title, promised the WWE title to Savage at Wrestlemania, and left DiBiase sh*t out of luck. He did appear on TV a couple of times with the belt in Feb 88 before the title was vacated after Andre defeated Hogan and then handed DiBiase the belt.

Piper didn't particularly need it. He was one of the few that refused to put Hogan over clean, which caused allsorts of political issues. Wouldn't surprise me if that squashed any future plans on giving him a title run. To this day, as far as his WWE runs are concerned, I think Bret Hart is pretty much the only person that Piper lost to via a pinfall.

VR!

Otis Driftwood

validreasoning! wrote: »

as his WWE runs are concerned, I think Bret Hart is pretty much the only person that Piper lost to via a pinfall.

Really?Wouldnt have thought that at all.:eek:

rovert

nedtheshed wrote: »

Really?Wouldnt have thought that at all.:eek:

The first time Hogan pinned Piper was in 1997 in WCW

michael.etc...

I was just watching this myself yesterday, and i also thought the main feature was a little disappointing. It does indeed focus more on him, and his life, as if it were made for a non-wrestling audience, with some coverage of his career. There's little of the great nuggets such as his alliance with Flair, face turn, etc....

But it's still a good watch, and the matches are of course, bloody great.

Some good points about the difference between heels on top in the 80's and 90's too... i do think it's a shame that Hogan seemingly put the lid on Perfect as a main eventer- he would have been a great foil for the Hulkster.
As far as WCW goes, i found Bischoff's comments on the dvd interesting. He seems to think he got exactly what he wanted out of Hennig. He seems to above all else...HATE admitting to making mistakes....

ShawnRaven

michael.etc... wrote: »

Some good points about the difference between heels on top in the 80's and 90's too... i do think it's a shame that Hogan seemingly put the lid on Perfect as a main eventer- he would have been a great foil for the Hulkster.

Funny you mention that, because basically anyone Hogan felt was beneath him, got fed to Brutus Beefcake. Beefcake had come a long way between Wrestlemania V to Wrestlemania VI and was being groomed to take the belt from Hennig so that they'd have a long feud for the intercontinental title. Sadly, Ed Leslie smashed his face, literally losing his smile, and losing all he learned in the ring at the same time, and his career never fully recovered when he came back three years later.

As far as WCW goes, i found Bischoff's comments on the dvd interesting. He seems to think he got exactly what he wanted out of Hennig. He seems to above all else...HATE admitting to making mistakes....

It eats a hole in Bischoff that he couldn't save WCW and keep going to war with Vince, despite the fact that even if he could have bought the company in 2000-2001, he'd have been fighting a losing battle. Sadly he could never recapture lightning in a bottle. Bret, Hennig and others were able to have amazing matches with and without each other in WWE. In WCW, that just didn't happen. Bret has already admitted this, I'm sure Curt would admit it too if he were alive today.

VR!

michael.etc...

Yeah, well aside from everything else, Curt's back was completely and utterly knackered. The DVD makes a fair point though about how he seemed to be merely enjoying being in the public eye by that stage, and felt little pressure in his role, which is understandable.
The thing with Bischoff though, is that he insists he brought Hennig in, as a guy who could have great matches with anyone (which he didn't) and still stands by his decision to shove him in the NWO- which for my money, was utterly retarded.

ShawnRaven

michael.etc... wrote: »

Yeah, well aside from everything else, Curt's back was completely and utterly knackered. The DVD makes a fair point though about how he seemed to be merely enjoying being in the public eye by that stage, and felt little pressure in his role, which is understandable.

Curt did the best thing he could do between 91-92 in taking the 16 months out and being Flair's sidekick. On top of all of that, not only did he fit the position well, but he enjoyed the role. But he came back better than he did when he left. I still feel the Bret/Hennig match from 91 is overrated and far inferior compared to the KOTR 93 match they had.

The thing with Bischoff though, is that he insists he brought Hennig in, as a guy who could have great matches with anyone (which he didn't) and still stands by his decision to shove him in the NWO- which for my money, was utterly retarded.

Bischoff got lucky. Had Vince not ratted to Lloyds Of London about Hennig coming back to work full time, Hennig would have stayed with WWE, but Vince did rat out Hennig, and Hennig just walked. Bischoff got lucky with Hennig, and he had the right idea with the NWO, but the wrong idea with turning on the Horsemen so soon after joining. Flair/Hennig would have been an awesome main event for a bigger PPV if there was time to develop.

But as good as Bischoff was with orchestrating Monday Night ratings at that period of time, he was bloody awful with PPVs. I still can't think of a classic WCW PPV offhand from top to bottom, but i can think of several ones from WWE.

Now isn't that surprising? :rolleyes:
VR!

I was a bit dissapointed with this DVD and it seems the more WWE DVD's that come out the worse they are becoming. Perfect is still great though.

Jimmy McMurtry

Even reading the negatives still really want to get this loved watching Mr Perfect when I was a kid

chopperbyrne

Couldn't resist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2_y_bh-p0Y

michael.etc...

Jimmy McMurtry wrote: »

Even reading the negatives still really want to get this loved watching Mr Perfect when I was a kid

Yeah, that's pretty much what i thought. Seeing it, i didn't find it disappointing as such, just wanting to see more.... But it's still great fun.

My full review went up here, if anyone wants to read..

http://www.ifight365.com/2008/09/the-dreaded-nerve-hold-review-the-life-and-times-of-mr-perfect/

ShawnRaven

michael.etc... wrote: »

My full review went up here, if anyone wants to read..

It wasn't bad, but there are some bits you may not have been aware of:

Terry Taylor vs. Curt Hennig (Wrestlefest 1988)

Michael Cole and Mick Foley contribute an alternate commentary track for this bout from Wrestlefest, in 1988. Bizarre inclusion.

It's anything but bizarre. Foley even mentioned this in his commentary. Taylor was beginning to establish himself as a Ric Flair type heel (even using Flair's finisher, the figure four at the time), and Hennig was only around the company a couple of months. The idea for a Mr Perfect character was being thrown around, and Taylor was already boasting this persona. They threw the two of them together to eventually decide who'd get the title of Mr Perfect. Hennig won, Taylor was subsequently buried and the rest was history. The original commentary team were Sean Mooney, Lord Alfred Hayes and Superstar Billy Graham. But i don't believe WWE have a legal right to use anything with Mooney in it anymore.

Hulk Hogan vs. Mr Perfect (MSG 1990)

The match that should have headlined WrestleMania in 1990 (I would have then had Warrior/Hogan the following year for the record…).

Actually it wasn't going to be anywhere near the Mania main event in 1990. Hennig was supposed to be pushed in a program with Hogan, but it was going to be AFTER Wrestlemania. If i recall correctly, Hogan v Zeus was booked for the original main event. But after such a poor reception with No Holds Barred: The match, that took place a few days after Survivor Series 89, they scrapped it and began a program with the Warrior at the 1990 Royal Rumble.

Other than that though, i enjoyed reading this.

Bubs101

God VR, it's hard to say how tempting it is not to take your proper name. The new one is awful

ShawnRaven

You checked out your own name lately, dude? If i didn't know you better i'd have you down as a 500lb prison guard!


... until it says Moderator: Chess under it

Bubs101

ShawnRaven wrote: »

If i didn't know you better i'd have you down as a 500lb prison guard!

Gets different reactions, Kaimera thought I was a bird until recently.

BTW, under your username it says goth which is far worse

ShawnRaven

Bubs101 wrote: »

Gets different reactions, Kaimera thought I was a bird until recently.

Heh, for me, it was a change as good as the rest, combining one of my fave Wrestlers (Shawn), and one of my fave bass players (the late Paul Vincent Raven).

BTW, under your username it says goth which is far worse

And i'll bet you like to bash emos with your night stick too, eh Bubba... sorry, i mean Bubs.

Can we get this back on topic?

graciegrace

YEAH I MISS MR. PERFECT, DIDNT REALISE HE WAS GONE UNTIL AGES WAS REALLY SAD, GETTING DVD FOR CRIMBO.

Red Sleeping Beauty

ShawnRaven wrote: »

The original commentary team were Sean Mooney, Lord Alfred Hayes and Superstar Billy Graham. But i don't believe WWE have a legal right to use anything with Mooney in it anymore.

What's the Sean Mooney story ? Was there an issue with royalties because he was on so many of them Coliseum Home Video releases ?

What did you think of the Shawn Michaels/Perfect match from SummerSlam 93 ? I used to have it on a HBK tape and I always really liked it.



On a related note, Silvervision have this DVD on the cheap - £14.99 if you can pay in £ or €23 if you like being ripped off.

Oh, and easter eggs here.

ShawnRaven

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

What's the Sean Mooney story ? Was there an issue with royalties because he was on so many of them Coliseum Home Video releases ?

What did you think of the Shawn Michaels/Perfect match from SummerSlam 93 ? I used to have it on a HBK tape and I always really liked it.

A lot of those Coliseum releases were deleted though, so it's no longer an issue. It's similar to Ventura though.

Shawn/Hennig sucked, sorry. The buildup was perfect, but they just didn't deliver, for whatever reason.