Warning notice at work

LegacyUser

I have, only yesterday, been issued with a second warning notice at work. It's all official and written and recorded. The problem is that I have NEVER received a first warning notice.

Is this legal and what can I now do to protect myself?

The boss thought that he had issued a warning to me months ago for something that was a genuine mistake and there was nothing made of it at the time, in fact I was told to "forget about it"

I thought warnings were issued for breaking the terms of my contract not for forgetting to put an ad in the local paper?

Can he issues a first warning after a second warning and back-date it? This doesn't sound very legal to me, but I am no solicitor so i'm unsure. I would imagine, however, if this was the case that any boss wanting to get rid of an employee could say " oh that thing 6 months ago, that was a warning even tho you weren't told, and that thing last month was another, so therefore I have followed all of the legal procedures in giving you warnings and i'm letting you go now!"

I should add that I have never received a copy of the company policy handbook. To my knowledge no such handbook exists in our office and if it were to be prepared at this stage i'm pretty sure I would be the one landed with the task of producing it.

Any information anybody could offer me would be appreciated.

Thanks

dudara

Moved to Work Problems - OP you can continue to post unreg in that forum.

dudara

mikemac

Normal procedure:

1. Verbal warning
2. First written warning
3. Second and final written warning
4. Instant dismissal

Usually if you get one of the first three, it’s wiped from your record after 6 months.

Now that doesn’t mean you get 4 strikes before you’re fired. You can go straight to instant dismissal for gross misconduct, like punching your manager for example. Edit: other examples are fiddling accounts or stealing money.

If it wasn’t explained that you got a warning the first time or even asked to acknowledge it, then this warning is your first, not your second.

AARRRGH

Whether what they've done is by the book or not, they obviously don't rate your work and want you to leave.

It's up to you if you want to stay working in that kind of environment!

But yeah, a second warning (written) seems like they've jumped a step or two.

geuro

to be honest op, the best thing you can do is take heed of the warning you have been given, examine why your boss is unsatisfied with you, and take steps to rectify the situation by making improvements at work.

Whether it's your first warning or second warning or whatever doesn't seem all that important to me, what is important is that you aren't performing your duties to a satisfactory degree. Your priority should be to make improvements at work, not to squabble about fine print relating to internal disciplinary procedures. You have received feedback indicating that you need to up your game, if you can't focus on making improvements now, well then it sounds like you can't see the wood from the trees.

kmick

You dont have to get a verbal warning first. A written warning can be issued first as well. Sounds like they want you gone.

seamus

WorkIssues001 wrote: »

Is this legal and what can I now do to protect myself?

The law doesn't come into it here. A company isn't required to have a disciplinary "process", but for the sake of protecting themselves, it's highly recommended.

I thought warnings were issued for breaking the terms of my contract not for forgetting to put an ad in the local paper?

Warnings aren't issued for breaches of your contract. They're usually issued for conduct - so poor timekeeping, poor work performance, breaches of health and safety, negligence, etc etc etc. Forgetting to do something, which subsequently affects the business, sounds like negligence to me.

Can he issues a first warning after a second warning and back-date it? This doesn't sound very legal to me, but I am no solicitor so i'm unsure. I would imagine, however, if this was the case that any boss wanting to get rid of an employee could say " oh that thing 6 months ago, that was a warning even tho you weren't told, and that thing last month was another, so therefore I have followed all of the legal procedures in giving you warnings and i'm letting you go now!"

As I say, "legal" doesn't even come into it. There's nothing in law which requires him to follow a set disciplinary process, he's only required really to give you a fair chance (as opposed to firing you over something minor).

Most companies follow the disciplinary process as posted by micmclo above. Some even allow for a third written warning. However, I've yet to see a disciplinary policy which doesn't allow the company to skip one or more steps, depending on the scale of the problem.

Having to be warned at all by a company is bad thing. You're not in school anymore. Stop focussing on trying to wriggle out of it and realise that you've made a mistake or a number of mistakes which are serious enough to give your employer cause to begin the process of firing you. Unless you seriously cop yourself on, then you are going to end up fired.

You are going to have to overperform to some extent for next 6-12 months to convince your employer that you are in fact worth keeping on, and not a liability. You don't seem to claim that you're completely innocent, so I'm going to assume that your employer is justified in giving you warnings.

If you want to keep your job, it's time to work your ass off.

pirelli

seamus wrote: »

The law doesn't come into it here. A company isn't required to have a disciplinary "process", but for the sake of protecting themselves, it's highly recommended.
Warnings aren't issued for breaches of your contract. They're usually issued for conduct - so poor timekeeping, poor work performance, breaches of health and safety, negligence, etc etc etc. Forgetting to do something, which subsequently affects the business, sounds like negligence to me.

As I say, "legal" doesn't even come into it. There's nothing in law which requires him to follow a set disciplinary process, he's only required really to give you a fair chance (as opposed to firing you over something minor).

Most companies follow the disciplinary process as posted by micmclo above. Some even allow for a third written warning. However, I've yet to see a disciplinary policy which doesn't allow the company to skip one or more steps, depending on the scale of the problem.

Having to be warned at all by a company is bad thing. You're not in school anymore. Stop focussing on trying to wriggle out of it and realise that you've made a mistake or a number of mistakes which are serious enough to give your employer cause to begin the process of firing you. Unless you seriously cop yourself on, then you are going to end up fired.

You are going to have to overperform to some extent for next 6-12 months to convince your employer that you are in fact worth keeping on, and not a liability. You don't seem to claim that you're completely innocent, so I'm going to assume that your employer is justified in giving you warnings.

If you want to keep your job, it's time to work your ass off.

Your serious. I hope your serious because that's a heavy order. I don't know the circumstances of the what has happened with this person, but becoming a overworked and over stressed trying only to prove to their boss that they are "worth it" is an extreme reaction, if not pointless endeavor.

The economy and business needs are also a factor in their attitude to you and so working your fingers raw just to prove your worth something might prove futile. If the OP worked in the county council would you have to behave with such humility to personally prove yourself to some individual.

Seamus your advice is harsh or just plain unnecessary.

hawkmoon269

seamus wrote: »

The law doesn't come into it here. A company isn't required to have a disciplinary "process", but for the sake of protecting themselves, it's highly recommended.
Warnings aren't issued for breaches of your contract. They're usually issued for conduct - so poor timekeeping, poor work performance, breaches of health and safety, negligence, etc etc etc. Forgetting to do something, which subsequently affects the business, sounds like negligence to me.

As I say, "legal" doesn't even come into it. There's nothing in law which requires him to follow a set disciplinary process, he's only required really to give you a fair chance (as opposed to firing you over something minor).

Most companies follow the disciplinary process as posted by micmclo above. Some even allow for a third written warning. However, I've yet to see a disciplinary policy which doesn't allow the company to skip one or more steps, depending on the scale of the problem.

Having to be warned at all by a company is bad thing. You're not in school anymore. Stop focussing on trying to wriggle out of it and realise that you've made a mistake or a number of mistakes which are serious enough to give your employer cause to begin the process of firing you. Unless you seriously cop yourself on, then you are going to end up fired.

You are going to have to overperform to some extent for next 6-12 months to convince your employer that you are in fact worth keeping on, and not a liability. You don't seem to claim that you're completely innocent, so I'm going to assume that your employer is justified in giving you warnings.

If you want to keep your job, it's time to work your ass off.

This is probably the single worst post I have ever read on boards.ie

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

you must have a very low tolerance for basic common sense.

MadsL

http://findaddress.citizensinformation.ie/service_finder/

Citizens Information centres often have a drop-in free employment law clinic where you can speak with an employment laywer.

In the meantime document all you can and read your employee handbook, the labour court takes a dim view of companies breaching their own processes and procedures.

mikemac

hawkmoon269 wrote: »

This is probably the single worst post I have ever read on boards.ie

Harsh.
Seamus always had good advice here and often approaches problems from a legal viewpoint. That post from Seamus was very helpful.

RuggieBear

hawkmoon269 wrote: »

This is probably the single worst post I have ever read on boards.ie

how so?

Eoin

hawkmoon269 wrote: »

This is probably the single worst post I have ever read on boards.ie

Let's take the facts first: the OP was asking if it was legal. Seamus was pointing out (correctly) the disciplinary process is defined by the employer, not by law. Therefore it's not illegal what they did.

Next he recommended rather than finding legal loopholes in something that's not defined by law, the OP works to change the employer's opinion.

If that's the worst post you've ever read on boards.ie, you're in for an awful shock. Have you not been to A.H. yet?

Shelflife

nothing wrong with what seamus said,

take responsibitity for your actions,

get your act together or face the consequences.

LegacyUser

You dragged up an old thread...


The company has no policies and procedures, there is no accountability or traceability.
It's a homemade business system.

A written warning is quite serious, but quite rightly if there is a procedure in place then
the OP might have been entitled to a verbal, if there is no policy in place and the employer does as he/she sees fit, then it is up to the OP to decide if that is fair.

If the employer is being unfair, there is little point in putting yourself in the position where you can be terminated later down the line. You could bring a labour relations to look at the matter and he/she cannot fire you for that.

Think of seamus as your employer and me as the labour relations, well I find seamus created a hostile work environment for you and and as their was no policy and procedure in place you found yourself up against or at odds with a line of managers that were more concerned with upholding the status quo and hiearchy then considering whether your work environment had been impacted without reasonable or substantial cause, and are those managers were not inclined to understand your distress as there is no Procedure in place.