Cycling suddenly giving me bad knees

Civilian_Target

I've recently started getting bad knees, particularly the evening after climbing hills in the morning.

I've been commuting for years on the flat with the only knee troubles being attributable to accidents, but now that I've started getting out of my saddle, I've started to have trouble.

I suspect that my standing technique is proving very bad for my knees, can someone suggest what the correct stance should be? The one I take is more or less similar to when I sit: feet pointing straight forward on the pedals, the centre of the pedal about 1/3rd of the way from the front of my foot.
When I'm standing I never let my legs go completely straight, and try to keep the bicycle as close to the vertical and straight-forward as possible.

I know at least keeping things vertical is helping, since the knees are both equally bad :rolleyes:

So, what suggestions have you got?
(And yes, I'm also going to see a doctor)

SetOverSet

I've an article from some cycling mag in work on knee pain . It goes through all the different types of pain in different areas of the knee, then goes on to list the probable causes, i.e. shoes, bike set-up, gearing, cleat/pedal alignment, etc. If you wanna PM me I can fax/post a copy to you. I'll check it tommorow anyway and if it's available online, I'l post a link.

ednwireland

I think your thinking about an article in cycling plus

available online

http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/health-knee-care-and-maintenance-part-2-17445

http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/health-knee-care-and-maintenance-17010

if its bad - doctor- who will tell you to stop cycling
yes I have bad knees due to too much soccer at college and falling off motorbikes even younger
hopefully you've just gone a bit toò hard and strained tendons which is easy on hills

cyclopath2001

Civilian_Target wrote: »

I've been commuting for years on the flat with the only knee troubles being attributable to accidents, but now that I've started getting out of my saddle, I've started to have trouble.

I suspect that my standing technique is proving very bad for my knees, can someone suggest what the correct stance should be?

Sounds to me like you're trying to push a big gear if you have to stand while climbing. I think it's the stress you're putting on the joint. That and it's getting a bit colder and that can reveal things too.

Now I don't know the severity of your climbs (am assuming on-road?) or your physical build, any chance you can lower the gear and climb without getting out of the saddle? I leave getting out of the saddle for when I've run out of gears....or when out-sprinting some guy with a high-vis and panniers.

irishmotorist

How recent is it? Could it be just the colder mornings that we're having this week? Are your knees covered up?

DBCyc

ednwireland wrote: »

I think your thinking about an article in cycling plus

I had knee pains a while back and read this article which was very helpful. It turned out that it was a result of my cleat position and since I moved it as the article explained, I have had no more problems.

Chips Lovell

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Sounds to me like you're trying to push a big gear if you have to stand while climbing.

That's the first thing that sprung to my mind as well. But I'd leave it up to the doctor to decide.

kenmc

sounds a bit like what happened to me. Was fine for a long time then blew up going over the wicklow gap one day. limped home. Perhaps your saddle is too low. Perhaps you're pushing your distances too fast. Perhaps it's too big a gear, perhaps it's all of the above. I was diagnosed with a tight ITB, and given stretches to loosen it out. Seems to have helped, not had a problem since. Touch wood.

rp

Civilian_Target wrote: »

I've recently started getting bad knees, particularly the evening after climbing hills in the morning.

I've had that when I've increased either distance, speed or hills. What seems to happen is your knees stretch more and you seat height is suddenly too low. Try raising it about 1cm, and the pain should go almost immediately.
I'm no physio but a friends girlfriend is a "sport knee" specialist, and agreed with me (in my case, anyway).

crashoveroid

The best advice about something like this go to someone that is qualified to advise you what the best course of action to take.

PeadarofAodh

Same thing as what you describe is happening to my right knee as well. I'd probably put it down to me throwing myself head first into training 4/5 times a week from maybe two or three lesiurely cycles a week over the summer. I also haven't been stretching properly.

I'd had to take the last 3 days off due to illness, probably would've anyway with my knee pain but have found stretching thoroughly, especially my quads, seems to be helping a lot.

Civilian_Target

Thanks for all the replies gents.

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Sounds to me like you're trying to push a big gear if you have to stand while climbing. I think it's the stress you're putting on the joint. That and it's getting a bit colder and that can reveal things too.

Dunno about colder (it's about 15-16C at that time of day), but it could be the gear for sure. It's a heavy, hub-geared bike so it's either drop it to the bottom and spin, or stand. Even the lowest spinning gear can't cover the steepest part of the hill without standing.

mcken wrote:

Perhaps your saddle is too low.

Possibly... I'll try adjusting on monday, but I suspect it's OK, I've spent a lot of time setting it up.

And as Peadhar said, yes, I'll do some streching too, and a friend has recommended a knee doctor to go to, but it sounds like I'll have to wait a few weeks.

I leave getting out of the saddle for when I've run out of gears....or when out-sprinting some guy with a high-vis and panniers.

Haha, I've ditched the hi-vis but I do have the panniers

Civilian_Target

OK... an update.

I raised my saddle by a little over .5 of a cm, and decided to spin a lot faster. I don't think it's a permenant solution, has changed the muscle groups being used sufficiently that I run out of steam before my knees become under sufficient pressure to be a problem. Interestingly, with a good spinning speed in the lowest gear, there's only one bit where I need to stand to get to work.

On the long term end, I start with the knee doctor in 2 weeks Cheers for the advice.

uberwolf

irishmotorist wrote: »

How recent is it? Could it be just the colder mornings that we're having this week? Are your knees covered up?

always found this to be the case for myself - first hint of cold, out with the knee warmers, they could be sore for hours afterwards otherwise

Baron_Kunkel

Hope I'm not straying too much off topic but how high should my saddle be for optimum efficiency. Should my knees lock straight when the peddle is at its lowest point?

CheGuedara

Baron_Kunkel wrote: »

Hope I'm not straying too much off topic but how high should my saddle be for optimum efficiency. Should my knees lock straight when the peddle is at its lowest point?

A short answer is no, you shouldn't be lockig your knee out at the bottom of the rotation, there should be a small bit of a bend left in it, certainly incorrect saddle height may contribut to knee pain.

There's books and threads everywhere about this subject but ultimately there is a certain ammount of personal preference in the method used to determine seat height. I personally find the LeMond measurement - 0.883 times your inseam minus ~3-5mm if using clipless, from center of BB to top of saddle - quite good. Then its a matter of determining the fore aft position of the saddle so that the front of your knee is over the axle of the pedal @ 3 oclock position and, assuming you've the cleats on your shoes right (a very personal thing as everyones knees are different) and you're set to go.

There are other methods based around angles formed at the hip and knee measured using a goniometer (the ole heath science degree coming back to me now) but again personal preference and access to these is limited to visits to a sports physiologist (i.e. the NCTC in UL or TCD). Hope this helps. PM me if you need a bit more info and I can see what books/notes I might have around still

paddyb

if you use cleats, check that they are have not moved out of position - they are not off to one side