am i right or wrong - Ryder Cup bet

jacool

i had €4 e.w. on Kim @ 7/1 (1/4 odds e.w. 1,2,3) to be top US points scorer and got paid out €2.20
this is wrong, no ?
i know 6 golfers tied for second place, but that should cover second and third surely ?
my thinking is if i had €6 on
i would have €1 on second @ 7/4
and also €1 on third place @ 7/4
this would give me €5.50
therefore for €4 i would or should have won €3.66

who is right ? the bookies or me
and i can't work out the €2.20 return anyway

its not the pennies, its the principle !

myflipflops

Bookie is correct unfortunately. It's worked out like this:

You had €4 e/w (1/4 1-2-3).

Kim tied second with 5 others so the win part is a loss.

The place part is settled with dead heat rules applied. 6 players tied for the 2 each way places so a 5 player dead heat is applicable.

The each way place terms were 1/4 so that's 7/4 and your €4 stake is divided by 5 (dead heat places) so the stake is 80 cent. THis is then multiplied by the place odds of 7/4 (1.75)

AS such you return is:

€0.8 X 1.75 = €1.4

Add back your 80 cent stake and you get a €2.20 return

jacool

Ladbrokes site states the following for golf. “If you placed an each way bet and the terms quoted for the tournament are for the first five places, we will treat three players tying for fourth place as having dead-heated for fourth, fifth and sixth place. We will then settle 1/3 stake lost and 2/3 settled at full place odds for each-way bets on those players.”
Here there were 6 players tying for 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th
So I think that two-thirds only should be lost as the bet was successful for second place and third – is this logic not correct ?

jacool

your sums add up though ! i'm impressed about that as I couldn't get to €2.20 !

ArmaniJeanss

pwhite587 wrote: »

Bookie is correct unfortunately. It's worked out like this:

You had €4 e/w (1/4 1-2-3).

Kim tied second with 6 others so the win part is a loss.

The place part is settled with dead heat rules applied. 6 players tied for the 2 each way places so a 5 player dead heat is applicable.

The each way place terms were 1/4 so that's 7/4 and your €4 stake is divided by 5 (dead heat places) so the staake is 80 cent. THis is then multiplied by the place odds of 7/4 (1.75)

AS such you return is:

€0.8 X 1.75 = €1.4

Add back your 80 cent stake and you get a €2.20 return

I make it €4 divided by 6(people tied) multiplied by 2 (places) = stake of €1.33.
€1.33 at 7/4 = €3.66.

myflipflops

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I make it €4 divided by 6(people tied) multiplied by 2 (places) = stake of €1.33.
€1.33 at 7/4 = €3.66.

By the way did he tie with 6 others (as you said) or 5 others (as OP said)?

I edited my post, that was a typo.

The way to work tu the dead heat is like this:

There are 2 places in the each way and 6 players filling them. Basically you assign the 2nd place to one player (hypothetically) and that leaves 5 players for the last place, hence a 5 way dead heat. In a 5 way DH, it's 1/5 of your stake multiplied by the relevant odds.

jacool - the rule you have quoted looks like it refers to outright bets on normal golf tournaments. The market that your bet is on is very different (more similar to a horse race than a golf outright) and as such Ladbrokes would revert to normal dead heat rules. I'm sure this is covered somewhere on their site with a generic rule.

ArmaniJeanss

pwhite587 wrote: »

There are 2 places in the each way and 6 players filling them. Basically you assign the 2nd place to one player (hypothetically) and that leaves 5 players for the last place, hence a 5 way dead heat. In a 5 way DH, it's 1/5 of your stake multiplied by the relevant odds.

I really think you are wrong here. This would only make sense to me if 5 players had tied for one place.

My understanding has always been that you divide the stake by the amount of deadheaters (6 here) & multiply by the amount of deadheat places (2 here).

By my understanding of your logic, if the bookie had been going 1/4 1,2,3,4 then the OP might have still got the same return?

myflipflops

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

By my understanding of your logic, if the bookie had been going 1/4 1,2,3,4 then the OP might have still got the same return?

In the above case, you would have effectively a 4 way dead heat. As such, his payout would be 1/4 of his €4 stake @ 7/4 or:

€1 X 1.75 = €1.75

Add on the €1 stake and the payout would have been €2.75.

This is standard DH rules. I don't think I'm wrong.

Mellor

*posts merged*
pwhite,
I would of done it the other way, like AJ did

So, pwhite using your way,
5 people tie for 2 when paying 4 places,
and
3 people tie for 2 when paying 2 places,

These are identical payouts by your way pwhite (both a 2 way dead heat)
which is a little silly. AJs way is much more fair

this could well be bookie dependant

Edit to add this;

PADDY POWER RULES wrote:

3. For each way bets dead heat rules apply. For example, if each-way terms quoted for a tournament are for the first 4 places, the 3 players tying for third place will be deemed to have dead-heated for third, fourth and fifth place with 1/3 stake lost and 2/3 stake settled at full place odds for each way bets on those players.
4. In a DEAD HEAT the stake money on a selection is divided by the number of runners involved in the dead heat. The full odds are then paid to the divided stake with the remainder of the stake money being lost.

Them the PP rules

Edit, use figure for above, it means

The 6 golfers all take 2nd-7th, winning for 2/4, or 1/3 dead heat which equals the 1.33@7/4
This is the same as divide by 6 (tied) and multiply by 2 (places)



"Its not enough to know what is done, to truely understand, you must know why it is done" - Brendan Nolan 2008