Chemical Castration for sex offenders in Poland, introduce it here in Ireland?

Piste

Are you saying homosexuality is natural but paedophilia isn't?

Darragh29

Here we go, the do gooders out again supporting paedophiles.

Take their nuts off with an angle grinder, only solution.

Piste

Yes I can really see lots of "support" for paedophiles on this thread.



Stupid kids should just learn to stop complaining.

taibhse

Piste wrote: »

Are you saying homosexuality is natural but paedophilia isn't?

IN MY OPINION yes. but that why I asked the previous question are paedophiles born like that?

Because however for their sexual attraction for children however it has come about, they should be stopped by whatever means necessary.

Call Me Jimmy

taibhse wrote: »

There is science to believe that people are born with a sexual orientation. Brain scans have been done on straight and gay people and there was some evidence to show that e.g some gay women had a brain similar to a males and vice versa.

I never said it was proven.

I would never say that gays are the same thing as paedophiles that's one large presumption from my post. Its perfectly natural IMO to be gay/ straight whatever. Paedophiles on the other hand are sick IMO

I'de like to see this science... where is it? I can't believe how people can so easily seperate paedophilia from other sexual orientations/fetishes without any basis.

staker

Anyone know where there's cheap penny sweets going?:o

taibhse

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

I'de like to see this science... where is it? I can't believe how people can so easily seperate paedophilia from other sexual orientations/fetishes without any basis.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/sex/dn14146-gay-brains-structured-like-those-of-the-opposite-sex.html

Brain scans have provided the most compelling evidence yet that being gay or straight is a biologically fixed trait.

The scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggressiveness resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex.

The differences are likely to have been forged in the womb or in early infancy, says Ivanka Savic, who conducted the study at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm, Sweden.

"This is the most robust measure so far of cerebral differences between homosexual and heterosexual subjects," she says.

Previous studies have also shown differences in brain architecture and activity between gay and straight people, but most relied on people's responses to sexuality driven cues that could have been learned, such as rating the attractiveness of male or female faces.
Brain symmetry

To get round this, Savic and her colleague, Per Lindström, chose to measure brain parameters likely to have been fixed at birth.

"That was the whole point of the study, to show parameters that differ, but which couldn't be altered by learning or cognitive processes," says Savic.

First they used MRI scans to find out the overall volume and shapes of brains in a group of 90 volunteers consisting of 25 heterosexuals and 20 homosexuals of each gender.

The results showed that straight men had asymmetric brains, with the right hemisphere slightly larger – and the gay women also had this asymmetry. Gay men, meanwhile, had symmetrical brains like those of straight women.

The team next used PET scans to measure blood flow to the amygdala, part of the brain that governs fear and aggression. The images revealed how the amygdala connected to other parts of the brain, giving clues to how this might influence behaviour.
Depression link

They found that the patterns of connectivity in gay men matched those of straight women, and vice versa (see image, above right). In straight women and gay men, the connections were mainly into regions of the brain that manifest fear as intense anxiety.

"The regions involved in phobia, anxiety and depression overlap with the pattern we see from the amygdala," says Savic.

This is significant, she says, and fits with data showing that women are three times as likely as men to suffer from mood disorders or depression. Gay men have higher rates of depression too, she says, but it's difficult to know whether this is down to biology, homophobia or simply feelings of being "different".

In straight men and lesbians, the amygdala fed its signals mainly into the sensorimotor cortex and the striatum, regions of the brain that trigger the "fight or flight" response. "It's a more action-related response than in women," says Savic.
'Striking differences'

"This study demonstrates that homosexuals of both sexes show strong cross-sex shifts in brain symmetry," says Qazi Rahman, a leading researcher on sexual orientation at Queen Mary college, University of London, UK.

"The connectivity differences reported in the amygdala are striking."

"Paradoxically, it's more informative to look at things that have no direct connection with sexual orientation, and that's where this study scores," says Simon LeVay, a prominent US author who in 1991 reported finding differences (pdf) in a part of the brain called the hypothalamus between straight and gay men.

But as Savic herself acknowledges, the study can't say whether the brain differences are inherited, or result from abnormally high or low exposure in the womb to sex hormones such as testosterone.

Call Me Jimmy

Interesting. I don't think it's exactly conclusive either. For example, it talks about how different brains deal with things like fear, anxiety and depression in different ways physiologically but surely if stuff like that can be changed psychologically, would that not cause the physiological responses to alter also?

taibhse

I never said it was conclusive or definitively proven just that there is some science out there to support the theory

zach morris

Rehabilitation not punishment, you conservative pricks.

entropi

I would welcome it for sure, and since they recently put the only rehabilitation programme in Ireland for sex offenders under review, its time they introduced something a little more effective tbh.

ejmaztec

zach morris wrote: »

Rehabilitation not punishment, you conservative pricks.

Would you say that this guy could be rehabilitated? I certainly wouldn't - and I'd much prefer to be a conservative prick if I support punishing these incurables.

In the Times article, which I remember seeing a couple of weeks ago, it mentions that this person lived in Ireland at some stage, but I don't recall seeing any mention of the case in the Irish media. It would be interesting to know where he lived, and what he got up to when he was living there.

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article4707508.ece

galwayrush

Most definitely for minor cases, and full physical castration for more serious crimes.
Human rights for victims, severe punishment for scum.

pookie82

Darragh29 wrote: »

Here we go, the do gooders out again supporting paedophiles.

Take their nuts off with an angle grinder, only solution.

Here we go, anyone who doesn't immediately advocate the frenzied chopping off of appendages in this case being accused of being pro-paedophiles.

....Because there's clearly no middle ground. You're either a staunch supporter of paedophilia or you call for their balls on a platter. No in between is conceivable :rolleyes:

taidghbaby

i agree

also people who steal should have their hands cut off

people who speed their right foot cut off

spammers have their laptops surgically inserted into their arses

and many others too......

EamonnKeane

taibhse wrote: »

I don't think you can somehow compare lefthandedness to paedophilia???
This is a serious crime and leaves its victims scarred I'm sure for the rest of their lives. If it was your child or sister or family member, would you be so understanding, I don't think so.

So what? Justice is administered by society, not by the wronged individual.

taibhse wrote: »

People are forgetting the focus should be on the victim. The people who commit these crimes are sick and I think they should lose the rights that most of us enjoy. Just because they are people?????? so what.

So what indeed! In fact, paedophile DNA is closer to crab than human. [Brass Eye reference, don't give idiotic reply]

If paedophiles are sick, i.e. if this is a serious mental disorder, it should be treated. If it is a crime, they should receive a penal sentence and then be released (just as we do with murderers and thieves). Can it really be both?

Ziggurat

pookie82 wrote: »

Here we go, anyone who doesn't immediately advocate the frenzied chopping off of appendages in this case being accused of being pro-paedophiles.

....Because there's clearly no middle ground. You're either a staunch supporter of paedophilia or you call for their balls on a platter. No in between is conceivable :rolleyes:

I agree, but I have to wonder how much of this is joking. It has to be. I don't think I could accept the alternative, if you could even call it that.

monosharp

Where does it say all sex offenders will be given this ? It clearly says it gives Judges the right to do it, and fair play to the Polish PM.

People are far far too forgiving on criminals.

"Oh but they're human beings blah blah blah".

Heres what I read in the paper over here today. A Japanese man who years ago went to study English or art in Paris, brought a young women into his room, shot her in the head and ate parts of her body for days before dropping the body off in a park.

What happened this lovely gentleman ? He was arrested, found insane, extradited to Japan, spent a few months in an insane asylum. Was let out, wrote a book and became a f-ing celebrity in Japan for years and now hes complaining he has no $$$ left.

How the **** do you think that girls family would feel seeing this piece of human waste on TV talking about how he murdered and ate their daughter/sister.

Being a human being is a right, acting like an animal is a choice and anyone who makes that choice needs to be treated like an animal.

Zillah

zach morris wrote: »

Rehabilitation not punishment, you conservative pricks.

Chemical castration is a rather powerful rehabilitation tool, actually. If a paedophile wants to take control of their urges and not harm children then being on such medications can help lessen their desires.

Zillah

monosharp wrote: »

Where does it say all sex offenders will be given this ? It clearly says it gives Judges the right to do it, and fair play to the Polish PM.

People are far far too forgiving on criminals.

"Oh but they're human beings blah blah blah".

Heres what I read in the paper over here today. A Japanese man who years ago went to study English or art in Paris, brought a young women into his room, shot her in the head and ate parts of her body for days before dropping the body off in a park.

What happened this lovely gentleman ? He was arrested, found insane, extradited to Japan, spent a few months in an insane asylum. Was let out, wrote a book and became a f-ing celebrity in Japan for years and now hes complaining he has no $$$ left.

How the **** do you think that girls family would feel seeing this piece of human waste on TV talking about how he murdered and ate their daughter/sister.

Being a human being is a right, acting like an animal is a choice and anyone who makes that choice needs to be treated like an animal.

This is a classic strawman. We say "I don't think its a good idea to chemically castrate people" and you act as if we've said "Lets allow murderous canibals walk the streets". There's a slight difference. If we put this guy in prison for the rest of his life, why is that not good enough for you? Why do we need to medicate him?

Milky Moo

If we put this guy in prison for the rest of his life, why is that not good enough for you? Why do we need to medicate him?

but the reality of the matter is very few sexually offenders get life,they're out in the community in a matter of years,in ireland we do very little to track these people and more often than not it comes down to communities to keep an eye on those that are known padeophiles(and no i don't mean through violence)
Case in point a man in my cousins neighbourhood was convicted of sexual offences against his daughter spaninng years,when he got out of prison families had to make sure he wasn't lurking in his garden watching children play as he was known to do or calling kids over!he was that arrogant about it...it is in built in us to protect children,one of our basic primal functions.For the people who denounce those for having empassionate and yes hot headed responses to how these people should be treated are, IMO, trying to contradict what human nature is,just as those who call paedophiles monsters are trying to distance themselves from what human nature can sadly sometimes be

Zillah

Oh that's a load of bull. Take responsibility for your emotions and if you're giving a hysterical knee jerk reaction then acknowledge that and moderate your position. Human nature is no bloody excuse.

Milky Moo

moderate my emotions?in what part of my post was anything a 'knee jerk reaction'?i was simply stating that both sides of this are trying to cover up what they feel is a bad part of human nature.one side thinks those who are completely head strong into castrate the fockers are just rash and bone headed.their emotions and they way they put across their argument simply makes some people disregard anything they say as a 'knee jerk reaction',the other side feels that padeophiles are monsters,sub-human and therefore anything our basic instinct drives us to punish them by is fully justified,and anyone who disagrees with them automatically wants to give offenders a hug and send them on their way...but both have legitimate arguments but just like everything in life extreme stances rarely make for the right solution..

gerTheGreat

This is clearly an emotive issue. We as a race/ animal have a natural instinct to defend our young. Furthermore, rape is a deeply damaging crime with often strong psychological repercussions for the victim. So I don't believe that it is possible to truly look at this in a clinical manner. Emotions will play a part in any decisions, opinions or actions taken.

Back on topic. The problem with chemical castration is much the same as with death sentences. It's an irreversible process. Resultantly, there is no room for human error. What is the wrong person is convicted? Can we honestly say that this cannot and will not happen?

Furthermore, the use of such punishments could be construed as cruel and unusual, with would infringe on the defendant's human rights. Despite their actions, (assuming guilt), they are still human, despite the fact that they may have acted in an in-human way.

You may argue that this is a fitting punishment for a crime of this nature, but it sets a dangerous precedent. What about the death sentence for killing someone? What about attempted murder? What about conspiring to ... and it goes on and on. Setting punishments like this can seem appropriate considering the crime, but it allows for the potential of a V for Vendetta or Big Brother-esk totalitarian government.

I have to ask you how this could possible help society? This would not stop someone with what I would deem as a serious mental illness to repeat. It must be remembered that not all sexual assaults include actual penetration. Surely it would be more appropriate to psychologically assess the guilty party and attempt to identify the cause of his or her mental illness in the first place. It may be possible to resolve their issues to such an extent that they will not re-offend. I am not suggesting that this should be in place of prison, but in parallel to it.

I'm sure that they will be some of you who deem this to be a waste of money, but is it a worthwhile investment in the safety of both women and children from a potential threat? If you way this against the cost of a death or life prison sentence, (which are incredibly expensive), it may prove to be quite comparable or even better.

Finally, can I ask you what possible benefit could the chemical castration of the offender be to the victim? It would offer nothing more then a hollow revenge. It is often said that a victim's life is ruined after an assault like this, so why not force the offend to some how help resolve these issues, maybe by helping to pay for counselling, pay for lost earning, or in some other non-fiscal manner?

Ger

D

I don't agree with it it does nothing to rehabilitate, and it burns bridges what if someone was falsely accused and convicted. Surely society can deal with its problems with out resorting to corporal punishment (violence)?




[On another note this seems to be one of the few "amicable discussions" on AH in a while, though the topic is distasteful it has saved AH in my eyes.]

OMEGA-KNO3

i fore one am for it or just bloody hang all sex offenders like dirty old pedophile preists molesters child abusers all of them should be found and put to death and i will make it happen i will save the world from these insignifcant humans join me now and we can save the world.

Super Sidious

I don't like the way people compare rape/paedophilia with stealing ie. chop their arms off for stealing... for the most part theft as a whole does not ruin people's lives, does not spread diseases (unprotected sex) from a rape, unplanned pregnancy.

I just think if you were to ask 1000 people who have been sexually offended or raped, i would think everyone of them would almost certainly agree with this sort of punishment or least life imprisonment of over 25years...so as to prevent someone else having to suffer at the hand of sex offender.

It is by far one of the sickest things a human can do, and while it is a massive human rights issue, somehow their has to be an appropriate punishment...

...problem is castrating someone doesnt stop them being a potential offender, while they can obviously do less damage, life imprisonment would help prevent the public from being attacked!

Zillah

D wrote: »

I don't agree with it it does nothing to rehabilitate, and it burns bridges what if someone was falsely accused and convicted. Surely society can deal with its problems with out resorting to corporal punishment (violence)?

You don't actually know what chemical castration is, do you? You heard the term and decided what it was without reading up on it. Hence the nonsensical post I've quoted.

gerTheGreat wrote: »

Back on topic. The problem with chemical castration is much the same as with death sentences. It's an irreversible process.

I love these imaginary debates where people just make stuff up as they go along. Awesome.

Zillah

Here, read this before posting please: http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1778

"Chemical castration is a term used to describe treatment with a drug called Depo-Provera that, when given to men, acts on the brain to inhibit hormones that stimulate the testicles to produce testosterone -- Additionally, Depo-Provera is reversible."

sock puppet

I don't think chemical castration goes nearly far enough. My proposal is that we place a small implant the size of a cashew nut inside their rectum. Upon hearing the sound of children's voices it will then expand to the size of a 42" colour tv. They'll collapse to the ground shrieking and the children will be safe.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

sock puppet wrote: »

I don't think chemical castration goes nearly far enough. My proposal is that we place a small implant the size of a cashew nut inside their rectum. Upon hearing the sound of children's voices it will then expand to the size of a 42" colour tv. They'll collapse to the ground shrieking and the children will be safe.

Someone's been watching too much Itchy and Sratchy! Or Brass Eye....

kleefarr

sock puppet wrote: »

I don't think chemical castration goes nearly far enough. My proposal is that we place a small implant the size of a cashew nut inside their rectum. Upon hearing the sound of children's voices it will then expand to the size of a 42" colour tv. They'll collapse to the ground shrieking and the children will be safe.

Sorry, but.....





LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

baradarcy

I never knew it wasn't legal to castrate people in Ireland (and I don't mean using your best bread knife...because that would obvisly wraise eyebrows...)! So you'd be in jail if you used chemicals or anything at all? even if you're in the guards?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

baradarcy wrote: »

I never knew it wasn't legal to castrate people in Ireland (and I don't mean using your best bread knife...because that would obvisly wraise eyebrows...)! So you'd be in jail if you used chemicals or anything at all? even if you're in the guards?

Educated guess here, but pretttty sure the guards dp not carry out chemical castration. Legal or otherwise...

El Weirdo

Zombie thread lock.