Waterford University discussion

imacman

taytobreath wrote: »

It has a lovely ring to it, doesnt it

I'm here on campus in NUIG and I see the potential that Waterford could have. We certainly dont lack space for new buildings, some of the facilites WIT has are as good as nuig, we have as good a library as here in nuig.

Its shameful whats happening, to be honest I hate reading about it, because it makes me so angry.

When you look at it across the country the other ITs (except maybe for CIT ) had no chance of ever becoming any type of university. They are all delighted the TU has come along as there is nothing to lose for them.

The only real loser is Waterford which was close to full university status over the last decade and it never got over the line . We are consigned to the TU pool and the door to full university status is now closed forever .

azimuth17

taytobreath wrote: »

It has a lovely ring to it, doesnt it

I'm here on campus in NUIG and I see the potential that Waterford could have. We certainly dont lack space for new buildings, some of the facilites WIT has are as good as nuig, we have as good a library as here in nuig.

Its shameful whats happening, to be honest I hate reading about it, because it makes me so angry.

I read this and wept. It sums up the situation so well. Our collection of party worthies will sell us out for their party loyalty. How can anyone even think of voting for David Cullinane? Preparing the way for a move to the centre by SF at our expense. Look how responsible WE can be.

Dunmoreroader

imacman wrote: »

When you look at it across the country the other ITs (except maybe for CIT ) had no chance of ever becoming any type of university. They are all delighted the TU has come along as there is nothing to lose for them.

The only real loser is Waterford which was close to full university status over the last decade and it never got over the line . We are consigned to the TU pool and the door to full university status is now closed forever .

Which is what the established Universities wanted, along with their friends in the Dept. of Education, unwittingly helped by our South-eastern neighbours.

azimuth17

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Which is what the established Universities wanted, along with their friends in the Dept. of Education, unwittingly helped by our South-eastern neighbours.

I agree, except for the word "unwittingly"! The south eastern crab syndrome means that Paul Kehoe etc in Wexford want something to point at regardless of whether it ever does any thing education wise and even if it undermines WIT, the very institution that has brought good degree level education to thousands of their kids across this region. Fine Gael is a political sickness. This is largely their run aided and abetted by, of all people, Sinn Fein.

914

Going ahead now either way

https://twitter.com/waterfordit/status/1387074417142943752?s=19

I agree on FUSE, now is the time to make a fuss instead of just walking away. Like what is their story, you create a campaign, are told by politician's to trust the process so you trust it (all be it with reservations) and then walk away days before a TUI vote against.

It just seems to defeat the purpose, they should be piggy backing on the back of that vote.

I'm not having a pop at the FUSE members but take cardiac care campaigns that would have been the same as been told, trust the process and walking, you need to remain until it's delivered

914

On a side note never agreed with the name FUSE, friends of university of the south east why not just friends of Waterford University, why are we so frightened down here to put the name waterford to anything.

Harry Palmr

FUSE is years too late, it needed to be going before the whole TUSE thing gained any credence and momentum. There was nothing to gather around which is massive failure on all our parts to be honest.

914

Harry Palmr wrote: »

FUSE is years too late, it needed to be going before the whole TUSE thing gained any credence and momentum. There was nothing to gather around which is massive failure on all our parts to be honest.

True and on my part I never saw anything coming of the TUSE as it was a marriage made in hell, the difference was the appointment of the 1k a day job of Mr Boland

Bards

914 wrote: »

True and on my part I never saw anything coming of the TUSE as it was a marriage made in hell, the difference was the appointment of the 1k a day job of Mr Boland

If this goes through it ends Waterford hopes of ever becoming a full proper University City and the brain drain will continue for our best and brightest...

914

Bards wrote: »

If this goes through it ends Waterford hopes of ever becoming a full proper University City and the brain drain will continue for our best and brightest...

It will go through and in 10 years time will have the politician's of the time on the radio complaining about the brain drain and lack of investment in Waterford Campus.

We can all see it, a big problem is enough people in Waterford don't seem to bothered, it's the same people on Twitter and Facebook raising issues etc.

If it was the hospital we would be on the streets, not enough people seem to realise a stand alone Uni would bring medicine related courses, which in turn brings a teaching hospital which would being 24/7 cardiac care, bring more FDI into Waterford, a significant increase in this area would enhance the airports viability.

WIT is Waterford's last and final trump card and it is being pulled from under us make make it worse the people voted by the people of Waterford and standing smiling saying this is a "game changer", they couldn't be more wrong

SeanieW1977

914 wrote: »

On a side note never agreed with the name FUSE, friends of university of the south east why not just friends of Waterford University, why are we so frightened down here to put the name waterford to anything.

Nail on the head - people trying to be smarter then they actually are. Please everyone and upset no one.

See where being too cute by half gets you.

You FUSE - You LOSE

Would’ve been a good slogan for them

Wanderer78

914 wrote:

If it was the hospital we would be on the streets, not enough people seem to realise a stand alone Uni would bring medicine related courses, which in turn brings a teaching hospital which would being 24/7 cardiac care, bring more FDI into Waterford, a significant increase in this area would enhance the airports viability.

Unfortunately everything has become short term gains, we truly need long term thinking, we need to start thinking decades ahead, we re tripping ourselves up by this approach, this has been a disgraceful process

imacman

914 wrote: »

.

If it was the hospital we would be on the streets, not enough people seem to realise a stand alone Uni would bring medicine related courses, which in turn brings a teaching hospital which would being 24/7 cardiac care, bring more FDI into Waterford, a significant increase in this area would enhance the airports viability.

WIT is Waterford's last and final trump card and it is being pulled from under us make make it worse the people voted by the people of Waterford and standing smiling saying this is a "game changer", they couldn't be more wrong

Yea and courses like medicine , veterinary and pharmacology are off the table in the a TU. They will remain the remit of the main universities while TUs are primary to focus on the needs of industry. That has been mentioned by any of the politicians who keep pushing the university idea even though the legislation itself blocks the ability's of a TU to offer prestigious university courses like those.

friendlyfun

This only feels like they're going to be changing a few plaques and crests. The talks of this being a "game changer" or will somehow stop the brain drain are so off the mark imo. That fact is it's short of a real university. Many young people are still going to go to Dublin, Cork etc to study medicine, journalism, etc.

azimuth17

imacman wrote: »

Yea and courses like medicine , veterinary and pharmacology are off the table in the a TU. They will remain the remit of the main universities while TUs are primary to focus on the needs of industry. That has been mentioned by any of the politicians who keep pushing the university idea even though the legislation itself blocks the ability's of a TU to offer prestigious university courses like those.

Section 9 of the Tech Uni Act 2018 specifies what a tech uni can do. It looks fairly broad. I could not see any section saying that it could not do certain things.

I expect there will be a lot of tinkering around with courses having regard to section 9,2(b) of the Act.

"(b) provide programmes of education and training that reflect the needs of individuals, business, enterprise, the professions, the community, local interests and other stakeholders in the region in which the campuses of the technological university are located and facilitate learning by flexible means,"

914

azimuth17 wrote: »

Section 9 of the Tech Uni Act 2018 specifies what a tech uni can do. It looks fairly broad. I could not see any section saying that it could not do certain things.

I expect there will be a lot of tinkering around with courses having regard to section 9,2(b) of the Act.

"(b) provide programmes of education and training that reflect the needs of individuals, business, enterprise, the professions, the community, local interests and other stakeholders in the region in which the campuses of the technological university are located and facilitate learning by flexible means,"

Ye so I would expect for TUSE the focus would be on tech, pharma, business, finance and Agri.

Pretty much the same as WIT and Carlow IT already operate on.

CraftBeer

Could somebody please tell me how the proposed TUSE will impact the physical location of courses?

Will, for example, Software Dev courses be centralised in one campus? Or will it continue to be spread across Waterford and Carlow, with each having their own Software Dev classes?

914

CraftBeer wrote: »

Could somebody please tell me how the proposed TUSE will impact the physical location of courses?

Will, for example, Software Dev courses be centralised in one campus? Or will it continue to be spread across Waterford and Carlow, with each having their own Software Dev classes?

If only we knew.

CraftBeer

914 wrote: »

If only we knew.

Wow, has this not been disclosed yet? I mean the local politicians are all trumpeting how beneficial TUSE will be for all towns concerned, yet we don't know if one campus will be a dumping ground for courses that attract too few jobs, while another campus might monopolise the value added courses such as STEM which attract multi-nationals.

914

CraftBeer wrote: »

Wow, has this not been disclosed yet? I mean the local politicians are all trumpeting how beneficial TUSE will be for all towns concerned, yet we don't know if one campus will be a dumping ground for courses that attract too few jobs, while another campus might monopolise the value added courses such as STEM which attract multi-nationals.

I'm sure if it's questioned you will be told, "that will be up to the new board to decide"

I would expect we will see courses relocated from WIT and IT Carlow to the new Wexford campus if it goes ahead as I wouldn't see value in let's say.

Software Systems Development course in WIT ITCarlow and Wex, where would the sense in that be, if that was the case course attendence numbers would drop in WIT and ITCarlow as Wexford students might stay locally.

So I would expect some school or schools to be moved to the wex campus.

I could be completely wrong by the way.

Rustyman101

CraftBeer wrote: »

Wow, has this not been disclosed yet? I mean the local politicians are all trumpeting how beneficial TUSE will be for all towns concerned, yet we don't know if one campus will be a dumping ground for courses that attract too few jobs, while another campus might monopolise the value added courses such as STEM which attract multi-nationals.

no its a lucky dip. which based on previous gov lotteries Waterford will be royally shafted, remember uncle Phil, Waterford must learn to share......doesntapply to KK and boundaries but hey ho.

CraftBeer

Boils my p*ss to hear local politicians saying how it'll be gain for the town, without a notion of how things will pan out. And i say that as someone living in Carlow! I would wish Waterford the best of luck in applying for Uni status, but i wouldn't want anything to do with it. Better for Carlow + Wexford + Kilkenny to form TUSE as it would be more of a greenfield project. Physically relocating existing courses and lecturers could cause huge damage to attracting investment, depending on the course. Local Carlow businesses who rely on STEM grads would be none too happy to see all those grads and lecturers going down to Waterford, an hour away. What would be the point in staying in the town if you're an IT company with no IT grads, or an engineering company with no engineering grads?

914

CraftBeer wrote: »

Boils my p*ss to hear local politicians saying how it'll be gain for the town, without a notion of how things will pan out. And i say that as someone living in Carlow! I would wish Waterford the best of luck in applying for Uni status, but i wouldn't want anything to do with it. Better for Carlow + Wexford + Kilkenny to form TUSE as it would be more of a greenfield project. Physically relocating existing courses and lecturers could cause huge damage to attracting investment, depending on the course. Local Carlow businesses who rely on STEM grads would be none too happy to see all those grads and lecturers going down to Waterford, an hour away. What would be the point in staying in the town if you're an IT company with no IT grads, or an engineering company with no engineering grads?

I don't think we will see let's say all IT courses relocated to WIT or ITCarlow but you may see one, expand their offering in such a school.

But I honestly don't get it, we will go from two Institutes in the SE to just the 1, makes no sense to me.

I have repeatability said the SE needs a stand alone University and a TU.

We are told there is no plan B. I believe WIT required 250million and IT carlow 300million in order for the TUSE to be a success.

I honestly do not see that level of investment coming but you would have to wonder if both WIT and IT carlow were left alone and the 250 and 300 million were invested to each institute that could possibly have both institutes running at University level, to me that would put the SE in a far stronger position.

But it seems to be, if you don't play ball and become a TU then bye bye investment.

The "new" engineering building for WIT still hasn't gone to tender and it has been promised since 2007!

curmudgeonly

Personally I think the Wexford proposal is nothing but a political kite, the Gov will spend the 3.5 million on the site and it will languish for decades in the black hole that is the OPW.

It makes no sense to try a greenfield development when you have two up and running campus screaming for money for development, and any new board would be in dereliction of its duty to fritter away money on a political promise not of their making.

If this board is going to be independent and we will have to assume it will be, all promise's are off and they will/should do what is good for the TUSE and makes sense economically or they would be in dereliction of their duties and open to sanction.

What I set out above is using logic, which has been absent from this whole process I know , but I just want to point out how nebulous the whole plan proposed at the moment is.

914

No surprise IT Carlow board have approved to proceed with the application

imacman

curmudgeonly wrote: »

Personally I think the Wexford proposal is nothing but a political kite, the Gov will spend the 3.5 million on the site and it will languish for decades in the black hole that is the OPW.

It makes no sense to try a greenfield development when you have two up and running campus screaming for money for development, and any new board would be in dereliction of its duty to fritter away money on a political promise not of their making.

If this board is going to be independent and we will have to assume it will be, all promise's are off and they will/should do what is good for the TUSE and makes sense economically or they would be in dereliction of their duties and open to sanction.

What I set out above is using logic, which has been absent from this whole process I know , but I just want to point out how nebulous the whole plan proposed at the moment is.

The ITcarlow Wexford campus isnt financially viable and hasn't been for years . They have avoided investing there for the last 5 years in the face of a lot of political pressure .

If you look at CAO points most of the Wexford campus courses are AQA or really low points ( AQA means any qualified application were the student gets in if they hit the min requirements , point don't matter). A college only does that are really desperate for numbers .

That's why investing any money never mind 50 million in Wexford is a terrible idea when the demand to study in Wexford is not there. Also no Wexford politician seems to understand that students may want to leave Wexford and go to Dublin and elsewhere for life experience and to get out of their hometown.

Wexford but its a small county town with no much in it , if I was 18 I would want to get out of there and go to college somewhere bigger with more going on . Building a campus for a few home birds who don't want to leave Wexford town is folly .
The new TU shouldn't indulge the delusions of grandeur of local Wexford politicians

914

Application will be submitted to Simon Harris tomorrow.

Looks like we will have a TU on the 1st Jan 2022 and WIT will be no more

Harry Palmr

Can't wait for the report.

Rustyman101

914 wrote: »

Application will be submitted to Simon Harris tomorrow.

Looks like we will have a TU on the 1st Jan 2022 and WIT will be no more

Another sad day for Waterford city or town as it will end up if FG/FF/SF have their way, hope we all remember this come election time ! running out of sycophants and idiots to vote for at this stage !

azimuth17

imacman wrote: »

The ITcarlow Wexford campus isnt financially viable and hasn't been for years . They have avoided investing there for the last 5 years in the face of a lot of political pressure .

If you look at CAO points most of the Wexford campus courses are AQA or really low points ( AQA means any qualified application were the student gets in if they hit the min requirements , point don't matter). A college only does that are really desperate for numbers .

I seem to recall that Limerick IT has had a campus in Thurles and Clonmel for the past 10 or more years which have failed badly but cost approx 100m Euro or more over that time. Politics will do what politics will do. Stupid things if it suits. Dept of Ed has been resolute against investing in Wexford for years and even the small dark man, a real enemy of Waterford, could not change things despite being one of the triumvirate in the 2011/2016 government. Something will happen in Wexford (I believe they want a 2500 student facility with 80 lecturers) the key will be how long it takes and who will pay for it. It is quite surreal to think that Wexford is six miles from WIT via Passage ferry and that 400m Euro was spent building the New Ross bypass which provides easy access to Waterford for a huge tranche of Wexford people. Yet access and good quality degree education has not been enough. We now embark on a voyage where very county town in the country will have a "university" campus. Its mad Ted.