Waterford University discussion

7upfree

sparkling sea wrote: »

Will anyone who is re elected be sucessful in delivering the long awaited University ??

I'd agree Conway won't be re elected

Halligan is a definite and may be of value, but thats very much dependant on the makeup of the next government.

Deasy is a definite, but for Waterford as a whole he is of little use.

Can't see Cullinane even getting a junior ministry. there are way too many SF power houses ahead of him, don't you think??

Paudie Coffey has a junior Ministry but it's really of little use and seems more like tokenism. I doubt he'll be re elected but I wouldn't rule it out completely, it'll depend on the competition.

Seamus Ryan would have had a much higher profile than Conway in the City, in the last election. Conway was lucky to have benefited from the labour voters and so many women, who seemed to have wanted a female representative, I'd go as far now as suggesting that if a good female candidate was put forward by either, FF or FG that candidate would have a very good chance of being elected. Again if John Halligan supported a well known, well versed female Independent candidate, then that candidate would also stand a decent chance of being elected.

Huge vacuum exists but I'm sad to say, I've heard a few people suggest that would should give FF another go, they've learned their lesson, etc etc, I think its way too soon but who knows. I don't really have any faith in FG or Lab or SF either though

I would agree that there is a massive vacuum. The botched announcements of "water charges" tonight only serves to fuel that vacuum.

I do think that Cullinane will get a senior ministry though.

wellboytoo

Lads are you seriously suggesting SF will get a majority in an incoming Dail on their own? Seriously?

fuzzy dunlop

wellboytoo wrote: »

Lads are you seriously suggesting SF will get a majority in an incoming Dail on their own? Seriously?

Probably not but if they were to become Senior paty in a coalition then Culinane would be much further along the queue then Coffey is in FG (Ignoring the fact FG are going to be hammered)and anyone local in FF. Hedging your bets that ae probably the only party with any chance at all of producing a local minister,

7upfree

wellboytoo wrote: »

Lads are you seriously suggesting SF will get a majority in an incoming Dail on their own? Seriously?

SF will be a majority party in a new Government. It's inevitable.

wellboytoo

7upfree wrote: »

SF will be a majority party in a new Government. It's inevitable.

But But But that means they'll have to make a decision on something??????????????????????????????????????????

fricatus

fiachr_a wrote: »

That's because most people in Dublin can't tell the difference between Waterford and Wexford.

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

I think you'll find they can. Even the most idiotic Anto smackhead knows where "Courtown" is. And they know it aint Waterford.

Sorry lads but I'm with fiachr_a here... When I lived in Dublin, the number of times people asked me "so, are you heading down to Wexford at the weekend or are you staying around?" :rolleyes:

I gave up asking stuff like "why would I be going to Wexford?", because it always just produced blank looks...

Unfortunately many more people in Dublin have been to Wexford and are aware of its existence than Waterford, and it's precisely the Courtown effect that's responsible! That, and the opera festival among the posher set...

The M9 (which means we're no longer in the wilderness, just a turn-off on the way to Kilkenny) together with stuff like the Tall Ships, Harvest Festival and Winterval, is slowly beginning to have an effect, but it's very, very slow. We're still not really on the radar...

ec18

if SF get into government I'm emigrating

Digital Society

fricatus wrote: »

Unfortunately many more people in Dublin have been to Wexford and are aware of its existence than Waterford, and it's precisely the Courtown effect that's responsible! That, and the opera festival among the posher set...

I would have thought Tramore was more popular than Courttown

fricatus

Digital Society wrote: »

I would have thought Tramore was more popular than Courttown

It may be, but Wexford also has Curracloe, Rosslare, Kilmuckridge, Kilmore Quay. It's traditionally been a big destination for Dubs over the years. You are much more likely to find someone up there who has been to Wexford on a summer holiday (or Kilkenny for a stag/hen) than someone who has been to Waterford.

I'm generalising I know, but that's been my experience from living there and meeting many people. All the signs around Stillorgan and Blackrock that say "The Southeast" point to the N11 for example. Their perception of the country's geography is not the same as ours.

Max Powers

ec18 wrote: »

if SF get into government I'm emigrating

Hold on just yet ec18, a lot of this negativity about the main parties and apparent support for SF/indos/Socialist Party will not be apparent when real election happens.

IMO people will see that the SF leader has been caught out lying numerous times including on facilitating sex offenders escaping the law by moving south, no economic policy that stands up and time after time populist nonsense.
As for some of those socialist ones, i think some of their behaviour has been disgraceful at water protests and in subsequent interviews.

Have to say im surprised people think deasy will be elected over Coffey when deasy as a parriah has done virtually nothing, at least coffey can claim he got IDA visits up, some success, is a junior minister and some other bits probably.
I seriously doubt Cullinane if elected if ahead of Adams, Mary-Lou, your man from Donegal and others in SF line for minister position. That is all dependent on someone actually going into govt with them, i doubt FG or FF would

ec18

Max Powers wrote: »

Hold on just yet ec18, a lot of this negativity about the main parties and apparent support for SF/indos/Socialist Party will not be apparent when real election happens.

IMO people will see that the SF leader has been caught out lying numerous times including on facilitating sex offenders escaping the law by moving south, no economic policy that stands up and time after time populist nonsense.
As for some of those socialist ones, i think some of their behaviour has been disgraceful at water protests and in subsequent interviews.

Have to say im surprised people think deasy will be elected over Coffey when deasy as a parriah has done virtually nothing, at least coffey can claim he got IDA visits up, some success, is a junior minister and some other bits probably.
I seriously doubt Cullinane if elected if ahead of Adams, Mary-Lou, your man from Donegal and others in SF line for minister position. That is all dependent on someone actually going into govt with them, i doubt FG or FF would

I should ask for a refund from Aer Lingus then? :P

Harry Palmr

Not sure what Sinn Feins appartently unstoppable march towards majority governance has to do with a university. It not like they'll say yes anyway!

fricatus

In the Munster Express today... interesting:

http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/wit-chair-edged-out-in-fallout/

Munster Express wrote:

Ultimately, John Taylor, under pressure – and I’m not saying where that pressure came from – withdrew his initial report.

:eek::mad:

b0ardsUser

Max Powers wrote: »

Hold on just yet ec18, a lot of this negativity about the main parties and apparent support for SF/indos/Socialist Party will not be apparent when real election happens.

IMO people will see that the SF leader has been caught out lying numerous times including on facilitating sex offenders escaping the law by moving south, no economic policy that stands up and time after time populist nonsense.
As for some of those socialist ones, i think some of their behaviour has been disgraceful at water protests and in subsequent interviews.

Have to say im surprised people think deasy will be elected over Coffey when deasy as a parriah has done virtually nothing, at least coffey can claim he got IDA visits up, some success, is a junior minister and some other bits probably.
I seriously doubt Cullinane if elected if ahead of Adams, Mary-Lou, your man from Donegal and others in SF line for minister position. That is all dependent on someone actually going into govt with them, i doubt FG or FF would

How about we keep the political discussions for the politics thread?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056951062

fuzzy dunlop

ec18 wrote: »

if SF get into government I'm emigrating

That will be one more to add to the 300000 that have emigrated by the time this government sees out its term.

wellboytoo

Sorry I pulled this thread off topic by bringing politics into it, good to see a new Chair being announced by the minister who is one of our own and has vast experience in both our college and the process of a college becoming a University.

fuzzy dunlop

fricatus wrote: »

In the Munster Express today... interesting:

http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/wit-chair-edged-out-in-fallout/



:eek::mad:

Very interesting indeed!

wellboytoo

fricatus wrote: »

In the Munster Express today... interesting:

http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/wit-chair-edged-out-in-fallout/



:eek::mad:

Lest anyone is in any doubt this whole thing is political !

JLenno

Munster Express wrote: »

Dr Ormonde continued: “Waterford IT is readily recognised as one of the leading Institutes of Technology in the country right now, and our academics felt a merger of that duration would do untold reputational damage to Waterford – they were very insistent on this."

Delighted that the leading status of WIT is mentioned here. This needs to be recognised in a wider sphere.

As John Halligan pointed out WIT's quest for the university is actually an equality issue - if WIT steps up to the plate, government ministers or lobby groups shouldn't stand in the way of the recognition it deserves.

JLenno

Figerty wrote: »

I admire the people who start their own buisness; the reality is the incubation centres are Gov. funded or as you say EU funded.

I know of at least two IOTs that are getting rid of trades as they don't fit the bill if they are a uni. Have a guess where??? You won't find it written down either.. but have a good look around.

Level 6's and 7's and not part of the ethos of any university. If you have them,, then you won't be regarded as a university.

I think these arguments mentioned about Level 6 & Level 7 courses & the trades is unfair.

Where was it stated that these courses would be abolished or that the plan was to transfer students to carlow?

Indeed it is correct that trades aren't typically found in universities. IMO what's not to say that they shouldn't be?

But even taking the traditional meaning would it not simply be the most obvious route that the 'university' departments in WIT would 'transfer' to the university and that the trades would simply remain as WIT? People here have noted that an IT would still be required in waterford.

No reason why the campus resources couldn't be shared (we already see this in NUIM). Besides, it's not like there isn't a blueprint for converting colleges to universities - why can't the conversion process of the NIHE's into DCU and UL be studied and improved upon.

Why the lack of goodwill to encourage improvement in education in the South East?

Guramoogah

Dick Langford, Principal of Waterford Regional Technical College (1970-'74) is the new Chairman of the Board of Governors of Waterford Institute of Technology. I think they're on the brink of a major breakthrough here: go it alone and revert to calling themselves a Regional Technical College. Think about it: WRTC would be the best RTC in the whole of Ireland. They'd be unique and then could try to achieve the University upgrade all on their own - in about forty five years time.

Figerty

JLenno wrote: »

I think these arguments mentioned about Level 6 & Level 7 courses & the trades is unfair.

Where was it stated that these courses would be abolished or that the plan was to transfer students to carlow?

Indeed it is correct that trades aren't typically found in universities. IMO what's not to say that they shouldn't be?

But even taking the traditional meaning would it not simply be the most obvious route that the 'university' departments in WIT would 'transfer' to the university and that the trades would simply remain as WIT? People here have noted that an IT would still be required in waterford.

No reason why the campus resources couldn't be shared (we already see this in NUIM). Besides, it's not like there isn't a blueprint for converting colleges to universities - why can't the conversion process of the NIHE's into DCU and UL be studied and improved upon.

Why the lack of goodwill to encourage improvement in education in the South East?

You make some good points. I would suggest you take a look at the Polytechnic conversion that happend in the UK. It lead to the destruction of the HNC and the HND in those colleges and as as result there is a massive shortage of technicans and Level 7's in the UK. One report issued last week ( i been told of; not read) suggest a need for around 1million engineers and technicians in the UK or the oppportunities for growth will be lost.

Trades will not be found in Universities, They never are. This will hugely disadvantage Waterford (and Ireland). The RTCs were created to address regional development as the majority of the cohort attending were local. Take away the IOT then the cohort slips into the background and we wind up with more social disadvantage. There is already a divide in WIT with the trades building stuck out the back.. as those working there.

Read the reports in the paper where Carlow asserted that the headquarters would in WIT.. WIT were 'incensed' with the revalation and the issuing of the memo. It's quite obvious that Carlow was going to be the outpost.

You can't have WIT and WU on the same site. It's not going to function and will become more disfunctional over time.

I think seven universities is enough in Ireland. I think if Sligo sought to upgrade I would have the same opinion. It's not an anti south-east thing.

JLenno

Figerty wrote: »

You make some good points. I would suggest you take a look at the Polytechnic conversion that happend in the UK. It lead to the destruction of the HNC and the HND in those colleges and as as result there is a massive shortage of technicans and Level 7's in the UK. One report issued last week ( i been told of; not read) suggest a need for around 1million engineers and technicians in the UK or the oppportunities for growth will be lost.

Trades will not be found in Universities, They never are. This will hugely disadvantage Waterford (and Ireland). The RTCs were created to address regional development as the majority of the cohort attending were local. Take away the IOT then the cohort slips into the background and we wind up with more social disadvantage. There is already a divide in WIT with the trades building stuck out the back.. as those working there. .

Excellent, let's learn from the mistakes of the past. Waterford being a gateway city has a duty to provide these courses for the benefit of the region. Let careful planning be put in place to keep WIT and bring practical engineering and trades to the fore and not 'stuck out the back'.

Figerty wrote: »

Read the reports in the paper where Carlow asserted that the headquarters would in WIT.. WIT were 'incensed' with the revalation and the issuing of the memo. It's quite obvious that Carlow was going to be the outpost. .

Is the joint memorandum of understanding available publicly? Other sources can only speculate about whether level 7 or trades would be in carlow only. What were the fabled kilkenny and Wexford campuses going to be doing?

Figerty wrote: »

You can't have WIT and WU on the same site. It's not going to function and will become more disfunctional over time.

I think seven universities is enough in Ireland. I think if Sligo sought to upgrade I would have the same opinion. It's not an anti south-east thing.

Wouldn't see the major issue here tbh. WIT already has at least 5 campus sites (is there another in co. Kilkenny?). I'm sure suitable (interim?) measures could be agreed for the benefit of all. But that's not the real problem though is it? The "closed set" view of irish universities is the real difference between us.

I view universities as an "open set"... give institutions which have proven ability the opportunity to excel. If sligo I.t. is of sufficient quality I would encourage them also. We have a terribly corporate approach to our university sector, a brand which must be restricted for fear of contamination.

Teaching a man to fish doesn't make the fishing rod any less effective!! Fresh voices should be encouraged to step up to the high table not held back!!!

Education is the best investment a government can make and WIT is clearly deserving.

Figerty

JLenno wrote: »

Excellent, let's learn from the mistakes of the past. Waterford being a gateway city has a duty to provide these courses for the benefit of the region. Let careful planning be put in place to keep WIT and bring practical engineering and trades to the fore and not 'stuck out the back'.



Is the joint memorandum of understanding available publicly? Other sources can only speculate about whether level 7 or trades would be in carlow only. What were the fabled kilkenny and Wexford campuses going to be doing?




Wouldn't see the major issue here tbh. WIT already has at least 5 campus sites (is there another in co. Kilkenny?). I'm sure suitable (interim?) measures could be agreed for the benefit of all. But that's not the real problem though is it? The "closed set" view of irish universities is the real difference between us.

I view universities as an "open set"... give institutions which have proven ability the opportunity to excel. If sligo I.t. is of sufficient quality I would encourage them also. We have a terribly corporate approach to our university sector, a brand which must be restricted for fear of contamination.

Teaching a man to fish doesn't make the fishing rod any less effective!! Fresh voices should be encouraged to step up to the high table not held back!!!

Education is the best investment a government can make and WIT is clearly deserving.

There is an awful lot of truth in what you say! You have to read between the lines on the MOU. The MOU in this case seems to be an agreed standoff.
In Ireland we tend to make the same mistakes over and over again! It's the same corporate structure all over the world at this stage in developed countries. The american corporate structure was imported by Ed Walsh, except that Ireland isn't capable of sustaining that structure in the form the Americans use. €40,000 tuition fees etc.

Fate Amenable To Change

Figerty wrote: »

Not a straw man argument. I do not accept all the facts as you present them. Simple as that. I'm entitled to a view and a different view of the facts.

You can't have an opinion about facts and figures by their nature. A business sold for over 60 million to RedHat is a fact. Your interpretation leads you to conclude that the business bought by Redhat is currently and has always been Government funded is your right, and I'm not disputing that.... despite multi-million contracts with O2 (Ireland and Uk) and British Rail as small examples.

Figerty

Fate Amenable To Change wrote: »

You can't have an opinion about facts and figures by their nature. A business sold for over 60 million to RedHat is a fact. Your interpretation leads you to conclude that the business bought by Redhat is currently and has always been Government funded is your right, and I'm not disputing that.... despite multi-million contracts with O2 (Ireland and Uk) and British Rail as small examples.

No one is knocking that success story. Good luck to them. The fact is that they have been a great success is wonderful,,but is that like winning the lotto,, one success doesn't make a trend but it's great they had the opportunity.

Of course you can have an opinion about facts and figures; The world isn't black and white. Have a read of the old book about how to lie with statistics. Read between the lines. Politics is based on that!

7upfree

Figerty wrote: »

No one is knocking that success story. Good luck to them. The fact is that they have been a great success is wonderful,,but is that like winning the lotto,, one success doesn't make a trend but it's great they had the opportunity.

Of course you can have an opinion about facts and figures; The world isn't black and white. Have a read of the old book about how to lie with statistics. Read between the lines. Politics is based on that!

"Politics" is what has WIT where it is now. If it were any other civilised country in the world it world already have been upgraded.

fiachr_a

7upfree wrote: »

"Politics" is what has WIT where it is now. If it were any other civilised country in the world it world already have been upgraded.

It's not politics, it's because Waterford City is a kip that no-one in Ireland cares about. Waterford is slipping further down the food chain. Wait until they upgrade Tallaght to a city and then convert their IT into a university!

7upfree

fiachr_a wrote: »

It's not politics, it's because Waterford City is a kip that no-one in Ireland cares about. Waterford is slipping further down the food chain.

:rolleyes:

wellboytoo

fiachr_a wrote: »

It's not politics, it's because Waterford City is a kip that no-one in Ireland cares about. Waterford is slipping further down the food chain. Wait until they upgrade Tallaght to a city and then convert their IT into a university!

Btw happy 14 th birthday.