Waterford University discussion

PeteFalk78

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

fuzzy dunlop

Ok so you make claims that you can't backup and then you attempt to ridicule and belittle (which I haven't resorted to) somebody when asked for facts.

At least with other pro WIT University users (such as imacman) they can construct their thoughts and ideas in a cohesive manner.

Don't bother replying to this post.

Dunmoreroader

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

I will get interesting soon. The GE is not far off so there will be huge pressure on Coffey to get this done. People won't be had this time around. Vague promises will be seen for what they are and it will be a case of twice shy for the voter.

Jasus fuzzy do you really believe that???? The're all a bunch of liars and have been for a lot longer than the last election. Until we get at least one senior government minister that actually gives a sh1t about Waterford and it's role in attracting/driving investment in the Southeast, this government and successive one's, will continue to pay lip service to Waterfords needs, including a Uni.

fuzzy dunlop

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Ok so you make claims that you can't backup and then you attempt to ridicule and belittle (which I haven't resorted to) somebody when asked for facts.

At least with other pro WIT University users (such as imacman) they can construct their thoughts and ideas in a cohesive manner.

Don't bother replying to this post.

Get over yourself! You're not the first "sneerer" who has had to leave here with his tail between his legs. I told you where the "backup" material was.You just couldn't bother your arse looking. Don'r expect me or anyone else to indulge someone who obviously is here to create mischief and is unable to read posts properly. All this has been thrashed out in at least three huge threads going back probably 10 years at this stage. Not to mention the government reports such as Port and Hunt which despite the dice being loaded provided a level of confidence and conditional apprioval (and which are in the public domain) in WIT that is nowhere else to be found in the region. You are a lot of things cohesive is not one of them.

fuzzy dunlop

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Jasus fuzzy do you really believe that???? The're all a bunch of liars and have been for a lot longer than the last election. Until we get at least one senior government minister that actually gives a sh1t about Waterford and it's role in attracting/driving investment in the Southeast, this government and successive one's, will continue to pay lip service to Waterfords needs, including a Uni.

That is the case in a stable political environment. However that is not the case this time. The government is under huge pressure and they are lucky that the economy is improving despite it having SFA to do with them. They will be pretty hamstrung come election time so there is an opportunity for Waterford.However only if we become politically Savvy like say the Dublin South East constituency and vote like political illiterates.

PeteFalk78

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Get over yourself! You're not the first "sneerer" who has had to leave here with his tail between his legs. I told you where the "backup" material was.You just couldn't bother your arse looking. Don'r expect me or anyone else to indulge someone who obviously is here to create mischief and is unable to read posts properly. All this has been thrashed out in at least three huge threads going back probably 10 years at this stage. Not to mention the government reports such as Port and Hunt which despite the dice being loaded provided a level of confidence and conditional apprioval (and which are in the public domain) in WIT that is nowhere else to be found in the region. You are a lot of things cohesive is not one of them.

Well if you make claims you should need to back them up instead of "going off to look for themselves". I've looked.....none of which mention the "fact" that WIT meet the criteria to make it a University.
Fuzzy dunlop alright.....because all you've done is left dirty stinking skid marks all over this thread.

Bottom line is that HEA have said, in no uncertain terms, that there will be no TU award unless there is a merger. Now WIT may not like that, ITC may not like it and keyboard warriors such as yourself may not like it......but that is the bottom line.

Just because you have the criteria to perform a job doesn't mean you'll automatically get it. The person employing you has the final say. No amount of badgering, whinging, whining or otherwise is going to change that.
And certainly WIT throwing their toys out of their TU pram didn't wash down well with the HEA and DoE.

fuzzy dunlop

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Well if you make claims you should need to back them up instead of "going off to look for themselves". I've looked.....none of which mention the "fact" that WIT meet the criteria to make it a University.
Fuzzy dunlop alright.....because all you've done is left dirty stinking skid marks all over this thread.

Bottom line is that HEA have said, in no uncertain terms, that there will be no TU award unless there is a merger. Now WIT may not like that, ITC may not like it and keyboard warriors such as yourself may not like it......but that is the bottom line.

Just because you have the criteria to perform a job doesn't mean you'll automatically get it. The person employing you has the final say. No amount of badgering, whinging, whining or otherwise is going to change that.
And certainly WIT throwing their toys out of their TU pram didn't wash down well with the HEA and DoE.

Oh look who is back:rolleyes: Why don't you check your six posts and back up your multitude of facts with some evidence before you bang on at some else. Especially when what you are asking for has been done here time and again for the latest poster who comes into the discussion 10 years too late.

The bottom line is what the HEA says is at the behest of ther government which is based on a political fudge designed to park the University Issue. The fact that that this monstrosity has been created to solve the problem means that the government feels vunerable to it so I will continue whining and badjering and throw my toys out of the pram until the issue is solved and if it bothers Carlow IT wannabees like yourself who are just here to stir the pot then that will just make it a tiny bit sweeter.

But the problem for you is that you are not even convinced by your own arguement. If what you are saying is true then we are just a load of "keyboard" warriors" raving in an empty room and you would see this and not feel the need to discuss it or even come onto the forum But look Peter Falk 78 is here telling us not to bother because it is pointless:D Its obvious it is within reach and this is what bothers you:p

PeteFalk78

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Its obvious it is within reach and this is what bothers you:p

fuzzy dunlop

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

[/IMG]

Now who is the Keyboard Warrior? Get some Clearasil for those zits......

wellboytoo

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Well if you make claims you should need to back them up instead of "going off to look for themselves". I've looked.....none of which mention the "fact" that WIT meet the criteria to make it a University.
Fuzzy dunlop alright.....because all you've done is left dirty stinking skid marks all over this thread.

Bottom line is that HEA have said, in no uncertain terms, that there will be no TU award unless there is a merger. Now WIT may not like that, ITC may not like it and keyboard warriors such as yourself may not like it......but that is the bottom line.

Just because you have the criteria to perform a job doesn't mean you'll automatically get it. The person employing you has the final say. No amount of badgering, whinging, whining or otherwise is going to change that.
And certainly WIT throwing their toys out of their TU pram didn't wash down well with the HEA and DoE.

I think you will find it is the Government said that, and the HEA have to follow its masters orders

PeteFalk78

wellboytoo wrote: »

I think you will find it is the Government said that, and the HEA have to follow its masters orders

Yep you're right. Back on topic. WITs biggest stumbling block on getting TU status alone is that other big IoTs (CIT, LIT etc) might fancy their chances going it solo also.

That would totally undermine the whole TU process - even more than it has already.....because without the support of TUI the whole process (from a merger perspective) is totally doomed.

fuzzy dunlop

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Yep you're right. Back on topic. WITs biggest stumbling block on getting TU status alone is that other big IoTs (CIT, LIT etc) might fancy their chances going it solo also.

That would totally undermine the whole TU process - even more than it has already.....because without the support of TUI the whole process (from a merger perspective) is totally doomed.

They might but they might not. In any case from WIT's point it would be a good thing.

wellboytoo

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Yep you're right. Back on topic. WITs biggest stumbling block on getting TU status alone is that other big IoTs (CIT, LIT etc) might fancy their chances going it solo also.

That would totally undermine the whole TU process - even more than it has already.....because without the support of TUI the whole process (from a merger perspective) is totally doomed.

Peter I won't get into the tit for tat of yourself and Fuzzy, but you have to understand a lot of people in Waterford have invested huge time and money in the upgrade process, my own family members over thirty years.
We have seen every red herring and false dawn imaginable, and the latest being two Ministers,( little and large), from adjacent counties,whose motives are suspect to say the least, impose this merger bollicks on us is very frustrating and makes one even more cynical than normal.
So forgive the invective but this is not just talk its a deal breaker for me and many like me.

PeteFalk78

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

In any case from WIT's point it would be a good thing.

To go it alone?
Serious question - would WIT rather not be a TU than a merged TU?

fuzzy dunlop

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

To go it alone?
Serious question - would WIT rather not be a TU than a merged TU?

It is closer to a TU now than a merged TU. A merged TU will just be a bigger version of Carlow IT with a new plaque on the entrance. It's gauge will be UCC or UCD which it will be nowhere near. Yet WIT as it is and going it alone would probably be easier to upgrade to somewhere like Maynooth or DCU.

echancrure

7upfree wrote: »

http://www.enterprise-ireland.com/EI_Corporate/en/News/PressReleases/2015-Press-Releases/Minister-English-announces-winners-of-Knowledge-Transfer-Ireland-KTI-Impact-Awards.html

Kinda hard to deny them now, isn't it? The usual FG trolls are very quiet on this thread.

Of course this kind of evidence can also be used to show that WIT, despite its financial problems and mismanagement, is doing very well as an IT... so why change things?

PeteFalk78

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

It is closer to a TU now than a merged TU.

How can you say this with any degree of certainty?

comeraghs

All logic says that WIT should be upgraded to University & given the resources to drive development in the South-East as UL has done for the Mid-West.

There is no reason not to have this happen except for vested interests in other universities and political skullduggery.

Dozens of reports from different bodies have indicated the need & sense of a University in Waterford & this latest excuse of trying to force a completely unsuitable merger between Carlow IT & Waterford IT should not be allowed to succeed by the people of Waterford & the South-East,

#WaterfordUniversity

fuzzy dunlop

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

How can you say this with any degree of certainty?

Apart from being familiar with three of the institutions,well the league tables from the last 10 years are a good metric. Not bad when the underfunding is taken into account.

imacman

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Yep you're right. Back on topic. WITs biggest stumbling block on getting TU status alone is that other big IoTs (CIT, LIT etc) might fancy their chances going it solo also.

That would totally undermine the whole TU process - even more than it has already.....because without the support of TUI the whole process (from a merger perspective) is totally doomed.

Thats what happened with the change to from RTC to Institute technology.Once Waterford got it Cork got their back up and the political fudge was to award it to everyone thus making it a worthless title anyway. I feel the TU debate may go the same way if WIT was awarded it alone.As i said before its all just politics and the interests of students are merely secondary

okedoke

Isn't the criteria about the % of staff with a doctorate a problem? - per the Irish Times (15/02/2015) 31% in WIT vs. 45% required.
It would take WIT years to overcome this.

fuzzy dunlop

okedoke wrote: »

Isn't the criteria about the % of staff with a doctorate a problem? - per the Irish Times (15/02/2015) 31% in WIT vs. 45% required.
It would take WIT years to overcome this.

Perhaps not.

http://100rsns.blogspot.nl/2011/04/55-there-are-too-many-phds.html

And where does this requirement come from? Is it just another govt movement of goalposts?

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/news/proportion-of-academics-with-phds-2012/421657.article

And either way it is another reason the merger with Carlow is flawed

imacman

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

To go it alone?
Serious question - would WIT rather not be a TU than a merged TU?

Personally I would rather see WIT stay as a IT that enter a dysfunctional merger which may hurt both organizations. WIT has been so bound up in this quest for a university its management seem to have forgotten about the day to day and the college is suffering because of that. Add to this the financial irregularities and the mess that is campus services i think things have gone down hill over the last few years. The lack of investment around campus is really evident and the morale is poor as there is no money to spend on anything which may improve the institute.
WIT should get back to its roots and strive to be the best institute of technology in the country , a university while nice to have will not solve all WITs problems or the south east problems.

okedoke

The criteria is about staff having phds not whether students should study for a phd or not. University lecturers spend most of their time working on research for publication - a phd is the basic training for this career but fewer than a third of staff in WIT have this training.

On another note, I wonder is the TUI position explained by the fact that university lecturers don't have the summer off, unlike IT lecturers?

fuzzy dunlop

okedoke wrote: »

The criteria is about staff having phds not whether students should study for a phd or not. University lecturers spend most of their time working on research for publication - a phd is the basic training for this career but fewer than a third of staff in WIT have this training.

On another note, I wonder is the TUI position explained by the fact that university lecturers don't have the summer off, unlike IT lecturers?

BuT The articles are about Staff PHD's! The point is that there is a surplus of people with PHD's seeking employment in Universities. And the second one is that WIT already exceeds the percentage many Universities are operating with in the Uk

okedoke

The article is saying that there aren't enough academic jobs to absorb the number of phds graduating - this is true. WIT has the opposite problem - not enough phds among the academic staff.

The universities in the UK with low phd counts are former polytechnic colleges, converted to universities in 1992. These are not considered by anyone to be on a par with pre-1992 universities and are not a good example for WIT to use if it wants to persuade people about the wisdom of upgrading.

fuzzy dunlop

okedoke wrote: »

The article is saying that there aren't enough academic jobs to absorb the number of phds graduating - this is true. WIT has the opposite problem - not enough phds among the academic staff.

The universities in the UK with low phd counts are former polytechnic colleges, converted to universities in 1992. These are not considered by anyone to be on a par with pre-1992 universities and are not a good example for WIT to use if it wants to persuade people about the wisdom of upgrading.

The point is their is demand in WIT and an International Surplus. There is no reason the demand can't be met with increased funding. The PHD arguement is another red herring. Regardless are all the English Unis with leass than 45% former Polytechnics? Two of the Welsh ones arene't. All of the Uni's in Ireland would have fell short of this at one point or another.

Ditto two in England that were never Polytechnics

RYGCat

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Yep you're right. Back on topic. WITs biggest stumbling block on getting TU status alone is that other big IoTs (CIT, LIT etc) might fancy their chances going it solo also.

Big IoTs? According to the most recent HEA stats (2013/14) on the stats section of the HEA website, the top four IoTs in size are: DIT, Cork IT, WIT and......... IT Carlow! Bigger than LIT and GMIT.

RYGCat

okedoke wrote: »

Isn't the criteria about the % of staff with a doctorate a problem? - per the Irish Times (15/02/2015) 31% in WIT vs. 45% required.
It would take WIT years to overcome this.

And IT Carlow are at 28% with 96% having Masters.

PeteFalk78

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

It is closer to a TU now than a merged TU.

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

How can you say this with any degree of certainty?

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Apart from being familiar with three of the institutions,well the league tables from the last 10 years are a good metric. Not bad when the underfunding is taken into account.

Sorry that isn't any degree of certainty.

fuzzy dunlop

PeteFalk78 wrote: »

Sorry that isn't any degree of certainty.

Of course it is. You just don't like what the league tables indicate. I see the Merger thread in the Carlow Forum didn't occupy you:D I also see you were not too worried about people providing evidence to support the all manner of BS that was being spewed over there.Interesting.