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Waterford University discussion

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    #932
    fricatus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,081 ✭✭✭fricatus


    fiachr_a wrote: »
    The last thing Waterford needs is another education-for-all college where people who shouldn't be going on to 3rd level are attending.

    You do realise that our success through the '70s and '80s in attracting the first multinationals here was down to a policy of free education for all, brought in by Donough O'Malley, right? The philosophy was that even though we had no coal or iron ore, we had plenty of people, and we might as well educate them. The presence of Microsoft, Intel, etc. here can be directly traced back to this enlightened policy. Would you rather we go back to the '50s when you could go to UCD if you were rich, and follow your Daddy into the civil service, or else fcuk off to England if you were poor?

    fiachr_a wrote: »
    A good university should attract the brightest students. The ones with the ability to set up a new multinational company, not the ones who want to work for an existing one.

    You're confusing intelligence with entreneurship. There's some overlap, but a lot less than you might think! If you're a bright geneticist or biologist say, are you going to set up in your own little shed and try to be the next GSK or Lilly, or are you going to try and get experience in those companies where you have access to huge amounts of research experience, investor capital and not have to worry about the PRSI? What do you think?

    fiachr_a wrote: »
    No quality university should offer degrees in nonsense like music technology or event tourism management.

    You're right on this point, but that has nothing to do with quality - rather, the current thinking is more along the lines of how students should start off with a general degree like science, arts, law or business, and then do specialised modules as they go along, rather than starting in a very narrow area and then having to go back to the beginning when they change their mind. It's a debate for education generally, not just for WIT.


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    #933
    kingsofoffaly
    Registered Users Posts: 192 ✭✭kingsofoffaly


    tbh this discussion has been going on since 2008 and its now 2015, it will properly be another 10 years before WIT makes it as a uni


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    #934
    PeteFalk78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 762 ✭✭✭PeteFalk78


    kingsofoffaly wrote: »
    tbh this discussion has been going on since 2008 and its now 2015, it will properly be another 10 years before WIT makes it as a uni

    And until then we'll see the same people churn out the same stuff here. "WIT have all the credentials to be a Uni", "Just one final push needed", "Within a hairs breath" without a shred of evidence that the HEA or DoE have even the remotest interest in making WIT a University. And tbh I think they've burnt their bridges with their part in the ITC-WIT merger fiasco - however close WIT were before that, I think that they are further away now.


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    #935
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    PeteFalk78 wrote: »
    without a shred of evidence that the HEA or DoE have even the remotest interest in making WIT

    That is it in a nutshell, they have no interest whatsoever, it will be a political decision only when it will happen.
    Hence the long and lonely campaign being occasionally bush whacked by little ministers and big gob****es from neighbouring counties, but we will prevail.


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    #936
    taytobreath
    Registered Users Posts: 2,789 ✭✭✭taytobreath


    What road is Willie Donnely gonna take, will it be the go with the government road or will it be go it alone road, thats the question i want an answer to.


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    #937
    imacman
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭imacman


    RYGCat wrote: »
    Rayr, not that I don't believe you but the names on the website (which have been updated to include new president) don't include her? Strange that the financial controller is not on the executive?

    She is on there now , no picture though . Looks like someone was watching our boards discussion
    http://www.wit.ie/about_wit/our_community/executive_board


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    #938
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    imacman wrote: »
    She is on there now , no picture though . Looks like someone was watching our boards discussion
    http://www.wit.ie/about_wit/our_community/executive_board

    And a Dáme formidable she is, That is a fairly strong board imo.


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    #939
    majado
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭majado


    fiachr_a wrote: »
    Either have a crap university with about 250 points to get in or have a decent one with around 450 points to get in. You can't have both. The last thing Waterford needs is another education-for-all college where people who shouldn't be going on to 3rd level are attending. A good university should attract the brightest students. The ones with the ability to set up a new multinational company, not the ones who want to work for an existing one. No quality university should offer degrees in nonsense like music technology or event tourism management.

    There are children in places like ballybeg who have the potential to be the brightest students the ones who you say have the ability to set up multinational companies if they were not supressed.It is the rich and powerful who get these positions The rest end up working for them. Thats just the way our society is and its all hidden behind equal opportunity ideology. Just saying


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    #940
    imacman
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭imacman


    http://www.carlow-nationalist.ie/2015/05/08/university-status-for-carlow-it-is-back-on-track/
    This is news to everyone in waterford.
    "TAOISEACH Enda Kenny said a plan for a south-east technical university with IT Carlow at its core is “back on track.”
    What a load of political rubbish speak ignoring all of the realities of the situation


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    #941
    fiachr_a
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭fiachr_a


    majado wrote: »
    There are children in places like ballybeg who have the potential to be the brightest students the ones who you say have the ability to set up multinational companies if they were not supressed.It is the rich and powerful who get these positions The rest end up working for them. Thats just the way our society is and its all hidden behind equal opportunity ideology. Just saying
    A certain type of person sets up a new multinational. There are not usually from rich and powerful backgrounds. They are the ones who attend the very best colleges (e.g. MIT, Oxford). They need brains to get in and don't always do technical courses. Some do subjects like classics or philosophy and come first in their class. These people are not interested in getting a job in a local firm, they want to work for themselves and create their own employment. They want to get rich! These kind of people won't ever go to a Waterford University. The only 1 per centers in this town are the Freewheelers!


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    #942
    O Riain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭O Riain


    fiachr_a wrote: »
    A certain type of person sets up a new multinational. There are not usually from rich and powerful backgrounds. They are the ones who attend the very best colleges (e.g. MIT, Oxford). They need brains to get in and don't always do technical courses. Some do subjects like classics or philosophy and come first in their class. These people are not interested in getting a job in a local firm, they want to work for themselves and create their own employment. They want to get rich! These kind of people won't ever go to a Waterford University. The only 1 per centers in this town are the Freewheelers!

    Ah Jesus, I actually had to laugh at this. Classics and philosophy, the people that study those courses either end up getting a cushty job at whatever university they went to or unemployed. The world has changed since 1402. Big multinationals are now either run by serious businessmen with serious degrees in business or by bright and talented youngsters who can be situated in a house anywhere from Ballybeg to Beijing. Sure wasn't there two examples of our own - FeedHenry and NearForm but hey I'm sure they spent a semester studying at Oxford.


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    #943
    RYGCat
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭RYGCat


    This is news to everyone in waterford.
    "TAOISEACH Enda Kenny said a plan for a south-east technical university with IT Carlow at its core is “back on track.”
    What a load of political rubbish speak ignoring all of the realities of the situation[/QUOTE]


    Surely when Professor Donnelly was appointed he gave some sort of commitment to the merger. Weren't the previous chair and president moved aside because WIT pulled out?


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    #944
    imacman
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭imacman


    RYGCat wrote: »
    This is news to everyone in waterford.
    "TAOISEACH Enda Kenny said a plan for a south-east technical university with IT Carlow at its core is “back on track.”
    What a load of political rubbish speak ignoring all of the realities of the situation
    Surely when Professor Donnelly was appointed he gave some sort of commitment to the merger

    Professor Donnelly has stated he is committed to a successful and effective technological university in the south east and to whatever is the best way forward to create that. He has also publically stated that he and his executive board don't believe a merger with carlow will result in a successful and effective technological university.
    So thats where he stands. He has also stated that his main focus is to go back to basics and rebuild the morale and the quality of the institute and if we are to remain an IT we will strive to be the best one in Ireland
    Weren't the previous chair and president moved aside because WIT pulled out?

    It has also emerged that the previous chair and president ( the ex president of Carlow) were involved in a dirty tricks campaign in collusion with the president and chair of carlow where behind the backs of the governing body and executive they tried to create a secret deal divvying up the top jobs and moving the TU headquarters from waterford which was core part of the original deal. This was confirmed publicly in a general staff meeting recently by Professor Donnelly.This blew up in their faces and effectively got both of them moved on .WIT didn't go public with this at the time but it may come out if they are placed under more pressure from the government to merge.


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    #945
    Max Powers
    Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    RYGCat wrote: »
    This is news to everyone in waterford.
    "TAOISEACH Enda Kenny said a plan for a south-east technical university with IT Carlow at its core is “back on track.”
    What a load of political rubbish speak ignoring all of the realities of the situation


    Surely when Professor Donnelly was appointed he gave some sort of commitment to the merger. Weren't the previous chair and president moved aside because WIT pulled out?[/QUOTE]

    Sceptical yes but Wouldnt judge yet, if a new plan has been agreed, it mightnt be bad. Obviously they way they were going wasnt gonna work. I dont think they can force this through without support of lecturers.


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    #946
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    imacman wrote: »
    Professor Donnelly has stated he is committed to a successful and effective technological university in the south east and to whatever is the best way forward to create that. He has also publically stated that he and his executive board don't believe a merger with carlow will result in a successful and effective technological university.
    So thats where he stands. He has also stated that his main focus is to go back to basics and rebuild the morale and the quality of the institute and if we are to remain an IT we will strive to be the best one in Ireland



    It has also emerged that the previous chair and president ( the ex president of Carlow) were involved in a dirty tricks campaign in collusion with the president and chair of carlow where behind the backs of the governing body and executive they tried to create a secret deal divvying up the top jobs and moving the TU headquarters from waterford which was core part of the original deal. This was confirmed publicly in a general staff meeting recently by Professor Donnelly.This blew up in their faces and effectively got both of them moved on .WIT didn't go public with this at the time but it may come out if they are placed under more pressure from the government to merge.

    That's a fairly serious statement/allegation, not that I don't believe it , but are you sure it can be said on a public forum?


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    #947
    imacman
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭imacman


    wellboytoo wrote: »
    That's a fairly serious statement/allegation, not that I don't believe it , but are you sure it can be said on a public forum?

    Well thats what Professor Donnelly said at a clear the air meeting with over 200 staff yesterday so its out there


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    #948
    ec18
    Registered Users Posts: 2,709 ✭✭✭ec18


    wellboytoo wrote: »
    That's a fairly serious statement/allegation, not that I don't believe it , but are you sure it can be said on a public forum?

    Doesn't that kinda of statement/allegation need a supporting link here?


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    #949
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    imacman wrote: »
    Well thats what Professor Donnelly said at a clear the air meeting with over 200 staff yesterday so its out there

    I spoke to a Lady who was at the meeting and she did not get that from it?


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    #950
    callaway92
    Registered Users Posts: 14,565 ✭✭✭✭callaway92


    imacman wrote: »


    It has also emerged that the previous chair and president ( the ex president of Carlow) were involved in a dirty tricks campaign in collusion with the president and chair of carlow where behind the backs of the governing body and executive they tried to create a secret deal divvying up the top jobs and moving the TU headquarters from waterford which was core part of the original deal. This was confirmed publicly in a general staff meeting recently by Professor Donnelly.This blew up in their faces and effectively got both of them moved on .WIT didn't go public with this at the time but it may come out if they are placed under more pressure from the government to merge.
    wellboytoo wrote: »
    That's a fairly serious statement/allegation, not that I don't believe it , but are you sure it can be said on a public forum?

    To add to what imacman said.

    Almost word-for-word one of my lecturers told us the same story so I'm fairly sure it's true.

    Not going to name names obviously, so don't bother!


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    #951
    imacman
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭imacman


    wellboytoo wrote: »
    I spoke to a Lady who was at the meeting and she did not get that from it?

    Well that's what around 200 of us heard in the meeting.Wille spoke passionately about our past and our future and he wanted to be completely honest and draw the line under all the messing that has gone on over the last 3 years.He has boosted morale and really put a bit of pride and feel good back into the college.Plus he won't be intimidated by the politicans or the apparent bullys from Carlow


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    #952
    RYGCat
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭RYGCat


    callaway92 wrote: »
    To add to what imacman said.

    Almost word-for-word one of my lecturers told us the same story so I'm fairly sure it's true.

    Not going to name names obviously, so don't bother!

    Surely that's not credible? Willie Donnelly was a member of the executive (a VP) and played no part in the original proposal for the TU back in 2012 and subsequent discussions?? Doesn't add up.


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    #953
    fiachr_a
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭fiachr_a


    O Riain wrote: »
    Ah Jesus, I actually had to laugh at this. Classics and philosophy, the people that study those courses either end up getting a cushty job at whatever university they went to or unemployed. The world has changed since 1402. Big multinationals are now either run by serious businessmen with serious degrees in business or by bright and talented youngsters who can be situated in a house anywhere from Ballybeg to Beijing. Sure wasn't there two examples of our own - FeedHenry and NearForm but hey I'm sure they spent a semester studying at Oxford.

    Well that's that sorted! Waterford University will automatically be the lowest ranking one in this country but their graduates will be valued more than those who went to Oxford and graduated with a first in arts? That makes a lot of sense. Maybe some factory out the Cork Road values WIT graduates but no-one outside of this town cares. Try moving abroad and showing off your WIT degree and see how many doors that opens.


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    #954
    imacman
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭imacman


    RYGCat wrote: »
    Surely that's not credible? Willie Donnelly was a member of the executive (a VP) and played no part in the original proposal for the TU back in 2012 and subsequent discussions?? Doesn't add up.

    Absolutely he said himself he was on the original steering committee and entered the talks in good faith in 2012.But this got sidelined along with others as the 2 top players from each organisation decided they would force things in one direction .Look these are facts , he isn't lying and even without him saying this outright there is lots of evidence that this is what was going on last Autumn.

    For example
    http://www.carlow-nationalist.ie/2014/10/31/southeast-university-bid-trouble/

    Relevent lines

    Waterford’s sudden withdrawal from the process last Tuesday followed a statement issued by IT Carlow regarding the signing of a memorandum of understanding by both colleges. In the statement, IT Carlow said that the new university would have “no traditional headquarters”.

    This was a result of the memorandum of understanding been signed by the WIT president and Chair with no consultation with the executive .When this came to light all hell broke loose and WIT pulled the plug.

    More good detail about what when down here . Its from Donnie Ormonds point of view after he stepped down so he has revised history to play down of his part in the whole debacle and fails to mention the sole run he and the ex-president made but a lot of the detail is accurate

    http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/wit-chair-edged-out-in-fallout/

    There is no doubt about what happened , So ITcarlow management have some difficult questions to answer .


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    #955
    O Riain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭O Riain


    fiachr_a wrote: »
    Well that's that sorted! Waterford University will automatically be the lowest ranking one in this country but their graduates will be valued more than those who went to Oxford and graduated with a first in arts? That makes a lot of sense. Maybe some factory out the Cork Road values WIT graduates but no-one outside of this town cares. Try moving abroad and showing off your WIT degree and see how many doors that opens.

    Got a job in the UK no bother with my degree from an I.T.

    Recruitment agents were literally flying over to get us onto their agency.

    No lie.


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    #956
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,261 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    fiachr_a wrote: »
    Well that's that sorted! Waterford University will automatically be the lowest ranking one in this country but their graduates will be valued more than those who went to Oxford and graduated with a first in arts? That makes a lot of sense. Maybe some factory out the Cork Road values WIT graduates but no-one outside of this town cares. Try moving abroad and showing off your WIT degree and see how many doors that opens.

    feck sake would ya ever cheer up!


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    #957
    fiachr_a
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭fiachr_a


    I'd love to, but this "Waterford neeeeeeeeeeeeds a university" is getting me down. Unless there's some kind of Apple moving over offering a few thousand jobs a university here is a costly waste. Most of the brighter students will go to TCD/UCD anyway because these will always be the better colleges. Local kids who do average in the leaving won't be able to get into this new university because the points will be too high. Then, most of its graduates will move away as there are no decent jobs in Waterford. So what exactly is the point of yet another 3rd rate university in the country? This town once had something resembling a university with plenty of land to develop on. It was John's College. Then it closed but no-one protested. Now it's being turning into a homeless shelter. Only in Waterford!


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    #958
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 29,261 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    fiachr_a wrote: »
    I'd love to, but this "Waterford neeeeeeeeeeeeds a university" is getting me down. Unless there's some kind of Apple moving over offering a few thousand jobs a university here is a costly waste. Most of the brighter students will go to TCD/UCD anyway because these will always be the better colleges. Local kids who do average in the leaving won't be able to get into this new university because the points will be too high. Then, most of its graduates will move away as there are no decent jobs in Waterford. So what exactly is the point of yet another 3rd rate university in the country? This town once had something resembling a university with plenty of land to develop on. It was John's College. Then it closed but no-one protested. Now it's being turning into a homeless shelter. Only in Waterford!

    ah i dont know about that. i know plenty of graduates from WIT that are doing very well in their careers. ive been through the universities you mentioned and have had good and bad experiences with them. WIT wasnt too bad thinking about it. with the ever increasing cost of living in this country, i think a lot of local students will have no choice but to stay in waterford. some students will of course move away for jobs and best of luck to them, some will stay and some will return. cycle of life really. companies like apple aint all good. as was mentioned, there has been some great startup companies created in waterford. we ve some pretty smart people round these parts so god only knows what will be created here. homeless shelter, id see that as a good thing


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    #959
    wellboytoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭wellboytoo


    fiachr_a wrote: »
    I'd love to, but this "Waterford neeeeeeeeeeeeds a university" is getting me down. Unless there's some kind of Apple moving over offering a few thousand jobs a university here is a costly waste. Most of the brighter students will go to TCD/UCD anyway because these will always be the better colleges. Local kids who do average in the leaving won't be able to get into this new university because the points will be too high. Then, most of its graduates will move away as there are no decent jobs in Waterford. So what exactly is the point of yet another 3rd rate university in the country? This town once had something resembling a university with plenty of land to develop on. It was John's College. Then it closed but no-one protested. Now it's being turning into a homeless shelter. Only in Waterford!

    Reason enough for me to keep up the fight.......


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    #960
    invara
    Registered Users Posts: 409 ✭✭invara


    Finally some good news in WIT- new lecturing posts are being advertised, the first in many, many years. Universities stand or fall on the quality of the lecturing staff, and new blood is always needed to renew the college. With almost no new people in a decade and plenty of retirements the place has under huge pressure, and these new posts are very, very welcome.


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    #961
    Digital Society
    Registered Users Posts: 972 ✭✭✭Digital Society


    invara wrote: »
    Finally some good news in WIT- new lecturing posts are being advertised, the first in many, many years. Universities stand or fall on the quality of the lecturing staff, and new blood is always needed to renew the college. With almost no new people in a decade and plenty of retirements the place has under huge pressure, and these new posts are very, very welcome.

    In what department?


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