Waterford University discussion

Wanderer78

comeraghs wrote: »

With an election coming up in late 15/early 16 This surely is the time that we all got together to push & push hard for a University of Waterford, a proper one & not one held back by a pointless merger!

not a bad idea but i think id rather see a free health care system being implemented than this.

invara

comeraghs wrote: »

With an election coming up in late 15/early 16 This surely is the time that we all got together to push & push hard for a University of Waterford, a proper one & not one held back by a pointless merger!

We did this last time. Both FG and Labour promised- local candidates and their leadership. It was in both manifestos.

Deasy sat on the Public Accounts Committee that ripped WIT apart (and found no wrong-doing; but threw a lot of mud). Conway and Coffey kept their head down and towed the party line when they stuffed WIT and the South East. How can any WIT person ever vote for that lot again.

Wanderer78

invara wrote: »

We did this last time. Both FG and Labour promised- local candidates and their leadership. It was in both manifestos.

Deasy sat on the Public Accounts Committee that ripped WIT apart (and found no wrong-doing; but threw a lot of mud). Conway and Coffey kept their head down and towed the party line when they stuffed WIT and the South East. How can any WIT person ever vote for that lot again.

im really lost with who to vote for now. theres just nobody out there. i can see ff strolling back into town though!

fuzzy dunlop

Wanderer78 wrote: »

not a bad idea but i think id rather see a free health care system being implemented than this.

And how is that going?

Wanderer78

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

And how is that going?

hahaha it ll never happen but its what i ll be looking for until its implemented. ah sure irish people dont really want it. most think its a mad idea for some strange reason!

7upfree

invara wrote: »

We did this last time. Both FG and Labour promised- local candidates and their leadership. It was in both manifestos.

Deasy sat on the Public Accounts Committee that ripped WIT apart (and found no wrong-doing; but threw a lot of mud). Conway and Coffey kept their head down and towed the party line when they stuffed WIT and the South East. How can any WIT person ever vote for that lot again.

http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/fine-gaels-university-pledge/

Fine Gael’s university pledge
By Tom Young. Published on Friday, March 14th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

Fine Gael nationally has finally, officially, pledged to join in the fight for a university for Waterford. And its Education Spokesman Brian Hayes promised this week not to drop the cudgel until it is delivered.


While its’ local representatives have long been behind the campaign the party itself has been reluctant to commit itself. But that has now changed and amid fears that the government is going to refuse an upgrading of WIT when it responds to the Port Report, Mr. Hayes came to Waterford on Monday to confirm his support and that of his leader Enda Kenny.

He promised that Fine Gael would campaign vigorously on the issue in opposition and if unsuccessful would deliver on its commitment if returned to power at the next election. Meanwhile – again in the absence of their desired response from the current government – it would be made a prime issue in the local and European elections next year.

The hope among campaigners is that Fine Gael’s stance will help pressure the Coalition into saying yes.

Mr. Hayes said that although Waterford could not be dealt with in isolation in terms of education needs, it had a unique and special case for a university. “I’m calling on the government to respond positively to the Port Report and if it doesn’t I’m pledging to keep this matter on the agenda until there is delivery”, he told the local media.

He accused the government of neglecting Waterford and the region in terms of educational investment. “Having designated Waterford as a Gateway City it failed to follow up with education funding”, he said. “This is particularly stark when one considers that only 11.2 p.c. of adults in the south east have completed third level education to degree stage or higher, compared to 15.6 p.c. nationally and 21.3 p.c. in Dublin”.


Petition


Arguing that a university was vital for further economic development in the region, he said one of the first questions asked by prospective investors concerned the availability of top grade education. And while WIT had served its purpose outstandingly well, people from abroad who were thinking of coming here wanted university education for their children and those of their management personnel.

The Shadow Spokesman also wants DIT’s application for university status to be met. And in an overhaul of the higher education sector he also wants a review of the criteria required for university designation, a new “umbrella university” for the Institute of Technology sector and greater collaboration between Institutes of Technology and regional universities.

Present at the Waterford launch of the Fine Gael strategy were TDs John Deasy and Phil Hogan, Senators Maurice Cummins, Paudie Coffey and John Paul Phelan, Mayor Mary O’Halloran and her FG City Council colleagues Hilary Quinlan and Tom Cunningham.

The Mayor welcomed her party’s strategy and Senator Cummins drew attention to a petition with 3,000 signatures gathered by Waterford Young Fine Gael (of which his son John is chairman) at schools throughout the city and county.

Not all schools took part, however. Those which did are: De La Salle College, Our Lady of Mercy, St. Angela’s, Stella Maris, Tramore, Abbey Community College, Ferrybank, Blackwater CC and St. Augustine’s, Dungarvan.


Mary accuses Carlow


Meanwhile, Independent City Councillor Mary Roche, who has been particularly active in pursuit of university designation, claims there are “two elephants in the room” which are detrimental to the cause and being used “to hide the government’s blushes”.

She identifies them as the 2004 OECD Report into Third Level Education and the ambivalence of Carlow IT to WIT’s application. “These need to be taken out into the light and dealt with”, she stated.

She said the OECD report, which recommended no further transfers from the IT to the university sector, had been completely discredited in that it was completely at odds with every other report on third and fourth level education carried out by the OECD for any other country.

As for Carlow IT, she said its negative stance could only be explained by pettiness and territorial considerations. She added: “Every other Gateway City boasts both a university and an Institute of Technology operating in a complimentary way. This is how it should operate in the south east also”.

And the outspoken councilors went on: “Waterford’s designation as a university would open many opportunities for Carlow, but for local parochial reasons Carlow is prepared to see the region go without a university rather than see Waterford get it. This is the worst ‘lobsters in the pot’ syndrome that I have experienced for a long time. At the expense of the population of the entire region, Carlow would prefer to keep Waterford down and hold it back rather than see it succeed. It is wholly unacceptable and amounts to politicking of the worst imaginable sort which must not be allowed impinge on WIT’s fully justified application”.

Finally, she issued a reminder that the Taoiseach was on record as supporting the university cause and he should be held to that commitment.


Fully entitled


Cllr. Roche was speaking at Monday night’s monthly meeting of the City Council, at which Standing Orders were suspended to discuss the university issue.

Cllr. Tom Cunningham said Fine Gael’s clear commitment to the university was good news for Waterford. His party was now obliged to deliver in government and that was something the public should bear in mind at the next election if the current Coalition didn’t show the courage in the meantime to make the right decision at Cabinet level.

His party colleague Cllr. Hilary Quinlan said that if the university boat sailed without Waterford on board it could be another 20 or 30 years before there was a chance to rectify the situation. So it was up to every local politician in the region to lobby TDs and Senators across the political divide. He hoped it wasn’t significant that some Fianna Fail representatives, from Carlow/Kilkenny in particular, had so far failed to nail their colours to the mast on the issue.

Cllr. Pat Hayes said the case in favour had been made ad nauseum – a university was the most vital infrastructural ingredient for the economic growth of the south east. He called on the Taoiseach to take charge of the matter and “get the job done”. And, while welcoming Fine Gael “on board”, he issued a reminder that Labour had the university included in its manifesto for the last two general elections.

All of the other councillors, including the Mayor, were also adamant that Waterford must get the university to which it was fully entitled.

invara

Any sign of the Kelly report ?

7upfree

invara wrote: »

Any sign of the Kelly report ?

No. It's gone the same way as FG's "pledge" on Waterford University I'd say.

wellboytoo

invara wrote: »

Any sign of the Kelly report ?

I read somewhere it's to be delivered to the cabinet Tuesday coming.,expect copious empty promises of all kinds of everything with a display by date of one day after a general election..

Sully

wellboytoo wrote: »

I read somewhere it's to be delivered to the cabinet Tuesday coming.,expect copious empty promises of all kinds of everything with a display by date of one day after a general election..

Lies. 7upfree has the inside scoop as usual, always right. Even when wrong.

Back to reality..

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/southeast-college-viable-31366033.html

fuzzy dunlop

Wow another report that just "co-incidentally" vindicates the government stance......

it's do-able as long as you "throw enough money" at it apparently. What isn't?

Space program anyone? Or how about just going with the upgrade for WIT alone which is what should have been done in the first place.

imacman

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Wow another report that just "co-incidentally" vindicates the government stance......

it's do-able as long as you "throw enough money" at it apparently. What isn't?

Space program anyone? Or how about just going with the upgrade for WIT alone which is what should have been done in the first place.

Exactly why go on this charade, that report could have been written months ago before this "consultation" began with kelly as it was only going to have one result.

wellboytoo

Sully wrote: »

Lies. 7upfree has the inside scoop as usual, always right. Even when wrong.

Back to reality..

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/southeast-college-viable-31366033.html

In fairness I think Sully's tongue was in his cheek with this statement.... i hope

Wanderer78

i want my space program!

jmcc

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i want my space program!

Well we can probably launch you into space but getting you back in one piece might be a problem.

Regards...jmcc

Wanderer78

jmcc wrote: »

Well we can probably launch you into space but getting you back in one piece might be a problem.

Regards...jmcc

sounds like a wager to me

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

Lies. 7upfree has the inside scoop as usual, always right. Even when wrong.

Back to reality..

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/southeast-college-viable-31366033.html

"Southeast College"? Another FG con job. In fairness their trolls, either on here or on FB, have been very quiet of late. Crawling back out from under their rocks now though.

mountcisco

Looks like we can forget about this for a few more years.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/technical-university-for-the-south-east-moves-step-closer-342375.html

"A senior Cabinet source said the Coalition was determined to push ahead with the merger, as it was in the Programme for Government, and would not let “territorial job rows” between the two institutes get in the way."

imacman

mountcisco wrote: »

Looks like we can forget about this for a few more years.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/technical-university-for-the-south-east-moves-step-closer-342375.html

"A senior Cabinet source said the Coalition was determined to push ahead with the merger, as it was in the Programme for Government, and would not let “territorial job rows” between the two institutes get in the way."

This line from that piece sums up the whole mess and how disingenuous some of the commentary in the media and from the government is.


"The creation of a technical university for the South-East was set to move a step closer today, as the Cabinet was poised to approve a long-awaited merger between Waterford and Carlow ITs."

The fact is the cabinet have no power to approve aTU for the southeast or anywhere else .Their own TU legislation stated that the decision to award a TU designation is decided by an international panel and based on a whole set of strict criteria. No government can just magic it into existence but that is the narrative being sold to the public in the southeast by the vested interests.

invara

The regional TDs are brave going into an election with this position. A full university was promised last time they faced us, in government they invented a new category of institution rather than do what they promised. They beat the lard out of WIT for four years (three Presidents and two chairmen ditched; crazy investigations and inquiries that threw a lot of mud and found nothing; vicious budget cuts when others were protected), then they offer a merger with no logic or upside for the south-east (no new resources, no new powers). I am so angry at what they have done. The south east has been left behind for 20 years- double the national rate of unemployment, lower educational attainment, lower average income. Where are our regional TDs on this, why are they allowed not to speak up?

imacman

invara wrote: »

The regional TDs are brave going into an election with this position. A full university was promised last time they faced us, in government they invented a new category of institution rather than do what they promised. They beat the lard out of WIT for four years (three Presidents and two chairmen ditched; crazy investigations and inquiries that threw a lot of mud and found nothing; vicious budget cuts when others were protected), then they offer a merger with no logic or upside for the south-east (no new resources, no new powers). I am so angry at what they have done. The south east has been left behind for 20 years- double the national rate of unemployment, lower educational attainment, lower average income. Where are our regional TDs on this, why are they allowed not to speak up?

100% agree, the whole TU idea was a bad idea to begin and has gone from bad to worse

Added to this there seems to be a toxic bullying element on the management in carlowit who think they should be calling all of the shots and have repeatedly belittled WIT in media. ( look at some of my previous posts for examples )

imacman

imacman wrote: »

http://imgur.com/6NWaHwC
Carlowit having a dig at waterford about exam results and the DDOS attack on WIT.Petty

forgot to add the one from twitter before

What are they winning exactly

RYGCat

invara wrote: »

The regional TDs are brave going into an election with this position. A full university was promised last time they faced us, in government they invented a new category of institution rather than do what they promised. They beat the lard out of WIT for four years (three Presidents and two chairmen ditched; crazy investigations and inquiries that threw a lot of mud and found nothing; vicious budget cuts when others were protected), then they offer a merger with no logic or upside for the south-east (no new resources, no new powers). I am so angry at what they have done. The south east has been left behind for 20 years- double the national rate of unemployment, lower educational attainment, lower average income. Where are our regional TDs on this, why are they allowed not to speak up?

More like years of mismanagement, deliberate misinformation and an inflated sense of one's importance finally caught up with WIT. Sense of Greece and the euro about this.

While others push on to deliver technological universities - of which there are countless internationally- WIT scuttled a potential offering.

Maybe new President of WIT will deliver on what I'm sure was expected with his appointment? He only has what -80 weeks or so- left in his term?

RYGCat

imacman wrote: »

forgot to add the one from twitter before

What are they winning exactly

From the WIT website:
"WIT is in the top 3 digital investigations courses nationally, per Sunday Times & Silicon Republic.

Read about the great job opportunities WIT graduates from this course have had - "
some great practical work for them to be doing:D

Wanderer78

unfortunately our education system has become a business therefore a lot of ****e will be said in order to 'sell' places on courses. carlow is showing very poor professionalism regarding their commands. its a bit of a mess alright but i still stick with my previous comments, its probably best to go it alone but it will take a very long time if at all to achieve university status.

fuzzy dunlop

RYGCat wrote: »

More like years of mismanagement, deliberate misinformation and an inflated sense of one's importance finally caught up with WIT. Sense of Greece and the euro about this.

While others push on to deliver technological universities - of which there are countless internationally- WIT scuttled a potential offering.

Maybe new President of WIT will deliver on what I'm sure was expected with his appointment? He only has what -80 weeks or so- left in his term?

More like WIT realizing that the merger will only deliver a non large under performing institution i.e. a larger version of Carlow IT. The fact is WIT performs better than Carlow at every objective level that matters. Carlow's main academic achievement seems to evolve around getting exams results out on time. The merger idea has been well and truly debunked and shown up as a political stoke.

There will be an election in approximately six months which the government will lose. It doesn't matter what "the cabinet" do! The merger is dead.

RYGCat

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

More like WIT realizing that the merger will only deliver a non large under performing institution i.e. a larger version of Carlow IT. The fact is WIT performs better than Carlow at every objective level that matters. Carlow's main academic achievement seems to evolve around getting exams results out on time.

More misinformation there, Fuzzy!

The third and fourth largest IoTs in terms of student numbers. Carlow has the highest number of lifelong learners. Carlow has the highest % of postgrads in the IoT sector according to the latest HEA figures.

As for political strokes, it was WIT's President and Chair approached Carlow seeking a merger. (Beware Greeks bearing gifts!)

RYGCat

RYGCat wrote: »

From the WIT website:
"WIT is in the top 3 digital investigations courses nationally, per Sunday Times & Silicon Republic.

Read about the great job opportunities WIT graduates from this course have had - "
some great practical work for them to be doing:D

http://www.globalintelligenceforum.com

Just saw this- maybe WIT should attend?

imacman

RYGCat wrote: »

More misinformation there, Fuzzy!

The third and fourth largest IoTs in terms of student numbers. Carlow has the highest number of lifelong learners. Carlow has the highest % of postgrads in the IoT sector according to the latest HEA figures.

As for political strokes, it was WIT's President and Chair approached Carlow seeking a merger. (Beware Greeks bearing gifts!)

I agree there is a lot of good stuff happening in carlow, WIT is only doing catchup on the lifelong learning area and it seems to be a vibrant organisation. The problem seems to be their attitude in relation to the merger and the feeling that they are "better" than WIT and should call the shots. In relation to WIts president and chair approaching carlow that's not strictly true as this was the path that was favoured by the HEA.

Added to this the ex president who was the ex president of Carlow was put in with the sole purpose of merging the two organisations which was to be done on Carlows terms ( as revealed by professor Donnally in his initial staff meetings were the ex wit president and ex wit chairman were doing a backroom deal with Carlow to divvy up the top jobs and the location of the headquarters without consultation with the WIT governing body and executive board.This was the reason that WIT pulled out of the merger )This has completely damaged the trust of the relationship and added to this the snide remarks on the media by carlow management recently in the media this has become a toxic relationship



Legacy issues ?????
Nonsense !!!

Really shows Carlow's true attitude about WIT and this kind of snide arrogance is no basis for a merger
I just want to add that I was in favour of this merger initially but the behavior of carlow has completely turned me against it and hopefully all that has gone on will be revealed in the wider national media once the kelly report has been published

PeteFalk78

imacman wrote: »

The problem seems to be their attitude in relation to the merger and the feeling that they are "better" than WIT and should call the shots.

It's common knowledge that WIT wanted the TUSE headquarters in Waterford. WIT are the bigger college and flexed their muscles in the initial discussions - I have first hand experience of this.

At no stage did Carlow think they are better than Waterford but wanted to stand their ground on consolidation because they could very very easily have been swallowed up by WIT.