Waterford University discussion

JaCrispy

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I hope WIT remain firm and don't open talks with IT Carlow again.

And say goodbye to any change to Uni status for a long long long time.

ec18

JaCrispy wrote: »

And say goodbye to any change of Uni status for a long long long time.

to be honest WIT is probably better off staying as an IOT as the TU stuff seems to be just a change in name essentially. Even if TUSE happens it still won't be a real university like UCC etc.

Pointless

Jamie2k9

ec18 wrote: »

to be honest WIT is probably better off staying as an IOT as the TU stuff seems to be just a change in name essentially. Even if TUSE happens it still won't be a real university like UCC etc.

Pointless

I agree would prefer nothing to change than team up with IT Carlow.

JaCrispy

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I agree would prefer nothing to change than team up with IT Carlow.

Why?

Jamie2k9

JaCrispy wrote: »

Why?

No particular reasons but I believe DIT and WIT are probably the best IT's around (in that order) while Carlow is much lower and universities hold WIT in high regard in terms on transfers etc,

Either give a full university to the region or don't change, this technological rubbish is nothing more than brushing over the real issue.

JaCrispy

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

No particular reasons but I believe DIT and WIT are probably the best IT's around (in that order) while Carlow is much lower and universities hold WIT in high regard in terms on transfers etc,

Either give a full university to the region or don't change, this technological rubbish is nothing more than brushing over the real issue.

I think you are the personification of that Kelly report - specifically in relation to my post #1110.

Do you have anything to back up your opinion that DIT and WIT are the "best ITs around" and that Uni's "hold WIT in high regard". I wonder how that elitist attitude will stand up when WIT are demoted to the third tier of the Irish college system.

The HEA, DoE and WIT stakeholders all say that WIT are not at a University level and that the SE region would benefit from a merger. The only people who say otherwise are the people from Waterford who want to take all the cake and eat it.

ec18

JaCrispy wrote: »

I think you are the personification of that Kelly report - specifically in relation to my post #1110.

eh all these reports are meaningless really. bigger institution, bigger influence simple really......or should be but nothing involving irish politics is logical or objective

JaCrispy wrote: »

Do you have anything to back up your opinion that DIT and WIT are the "best ITs around" and that Uni's "hold WIT in high regard". I wonder how that elitist attitude will stand up when WIT are demoted to the third tier of the Irish college system.

That's not definitely true. There's no guarantee that any of these TU's will be an improvement on the current IOT's and judging by the way it's generally being handled at the moment, I'd be surprised it this exercise was anything more than a failure nationwide.

JaCrispy wrote: »

The HEA, DoE and WIT stakeholders all say that WIT are not at a University level and that the SE region would benefit from a merger. The only people who say otherwise are the people from Waterford who want to take all the cake and eat it.

WIT Stakeholders? who are they? Of course the HEA and DOE agree the TU's are their plan, if they don't believe it then no one will :cool:

BBM77

JaCrispy wrote: »

I think you are the personification of that Kelly report - specifically in relation to my post #1110.

Do you have anything to back up your opinion that DIT and WIT are the "best ITs around" and that Uni's "hold WIT in high regard". I wonder how that elitist attitude will stand up when WIT are demoted to the third tier of the Irish college system.

The HEA, DoE and WIT stakeholders all say that WIT are not at a University level and that the SE region would benefit from a merger. The only people who say otherwise are the people from Waterford who want to take all the cake and eat it.

The problem is nobody outside of Waterford city was interested in the cake until it started to look like the cake was going to get baked.

On page 51

“the existence of a number of strong, often competing, urban centres, the north (Leinster) and south (Munster) affiliations”

I so sick of this bull ****e. Kilkenny and Wexford are small towns. They have nowhere near the population to create a critical mass to drive the regional economy the way Waterford city does. We are all being held back by the pushing of this pathetic delusion.

JaCrispy

BBM77 wrote: »

The problem is nobody outside of Waterford city was interested in the cake until it started to look like the cake was going to get baked.

Except WIT don't and probably never will have the ingredients to make the cake.

JaCrispy

ec18 wrote: »

WIT Stakeholders? who are they? Of course the HEA and DOE agree the TU's are their plan, if they don't believe it then no one will :cool:

Its in the report.

Jamie2k9

I think you are the personification of that Kelly report - specifically in relation to my post #1110.

Do you have anything to back up your opinion that DIT and WIT are the "best ITs around" and that Uni's "hold WIT in high regard". I wonder how that elitist attitude will stand up when WIT are demoted to the third tier of the Irish college system.

The HEA, DoE and WIT stakeholders all say that WIT are not at a University level and that the SE region would benefit from a merger. The only people who say otherwise are the people from Waterford who want to take all the cake and eat it.

My opinion of DIT/WIT being the best around is based on Universities been selective on what IT courses should be considered for transfers, UCC/UL/UCD etc allow allow WIT/DIT courses to transfer as IT Carlow, IT Taillight and IT Athlone are not considered for most courses.

I agree its not a Uni level yet however I would prefer to see work done to bring it up to standard now so that down the road it can be. I bet the SE region would benefit from a full university more than was is been proposed and that should be the end goal.

This report isn't worth the paper it's wrote on and I expect an election around the corner has player a major role in the report and its content.

JaCrispy

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

My opinion of DIT/WIT being the best around is based on Universities been selective on what IT courses should be considered for transfers, UCC/UL/UCD etc allow allow WIT/DIT courses to transfer as IT Carlow, IT Taillight and IT Athlone are not considered for most courses.

There is no preference for certain IoTs. Nothing mentioned here.

tcd.ie/study/eu/undergraduate/apply/transferring/from-third-level/

fuzzy dunlop

JaCrispy wrote: »

I think you aseberlyre the personification of that Kelly report - specifically in relation to my post #1110.

Do you have anything to back up your opinion that DIT and WIT are the "best ITs around" and that Uni's "hold WIT in high regard". I wonder how that elitist attitude will stand up when WIT are demoted to the third tier of the Irish college system.

The HEA, DoE and WIT stakeholders all say that WIT are not at a University level and that the SE region would benefit from a merger. The only people who say otherwise are the people from Waterford who want to take all the cake and eat it.

The HEA and DoE have been severely compromised by parochial politics.They are not honest brokers This has been backed up here with the prime time report. WIT has consistently been among the top 4 IT's in the country according again backed up here with the IT league tables. There is nothing elitist about it. WIT will not be demoted to anything if it stays as it is. The merger on the other hand will see a so called TU that will probably be less than WIT is now. The fact is WIT can walk away from Carlow and the University issue can still be held over FG and Labours head. If Carlow or anyone else could do this they would and would have gone their own way. The fact that they haven't shows that they are full of bluff.

BTW welcome back Peter;)

CatFromHue

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

My opinion of DIT/WIT being the best around is based on Universities been selective on what IT courses should be considered for transfers, UCC/UL/UCD etc allow allow WIT/DIT courses to transfer as IT Carlow, IT Taillight and IT Athlone are not considered for most courses.

I don't think this is true as

TRANSFER APPLICANTS

Applications are invited from graduates of higher certificate (Level 6) or diploma/ordinary degree (Level 7) who wish to pursue a full-time Honours Degree (Level 8) in any of the following courses:
** list of courses**

MINIMUM ENTRY REQUIREMENTS

Level 6 - Students who hold an HETAC Higher Certificate (Level 6) at credit/merit or distinction level will normally be considered for entry to year two of these four-year courses.

Level 7 - Students who hold an Ordinary Degree (Level 7) at credit/merit or distinction level will normally be considered for entry to year three of these four-year courses.
https://www2.ul.ie/web/WWW/Services/Student_Affairs/Student_Administration/Admissions/Transfer%20-%20Online%20Application

There's no mention of specific IT's.

7upfree

JaCrispy wrote: »

And say goodbye to any change to Uni status for a long long long time.

I'd take it ahead of this Frankenstein merger anyway. And Hogan's not-so-subtle plot.

wellboytoo

JaCrispy wrote: »

That really doesn't paint WIT in a very good light

No it paints a true picture . We were f***e×d by this government six ways from Sunday on several occasions with broken promises new hoops to jump through etc. Then they lobbed this merger crap on us ,you haven't a clue of the history behind this so get off your high horse !

fuzzy dunlop

JaCrispy wrote: »

That really doesn't paint WIT in a very good light

It is not supposed paint WIT in any light. It is not supposed to be an indictment of anyone. But in any case WIT's stance is perfectly reasonable. Especially considering this folly.

Stakeholders from other parts of the region are quite clear that a Waterford-only solution would not meet their needs or expectations and that they wish to see a more distributed institution with direct links to all parts of the region.

Under what criteria is a campus spread all over the region supposes to be good for delivery of education? Especially when one of WIT's supposed "weaknesses" in another report is that it is spread across several campus in one small city:D You couldn't make it up.But at the end of the day this is what its about, the usual Parish pump parochialism trying to pilfer resources from one institution to another. Like the VEC's and the Hospital network again. All the more galling when you think they barely have lifted a finger over the last 30 years to deliver a University to the region.

wellboytoo

JaCrispy wrote: »

There is no preference for certain IoTs. Nothing mentioned here.

tcd.ie/study/eu/undergraduate/apply/transferring/from-third-level/

Hello again Columbo did you not like your old name?

mountcisco

Just heard Professor Willie Donnelly on KCLR saying the concept of a merger is fully acccepted. WIT "absolutely not" going it alone. Looks like a thumbs up for TUSE.

7upfree

mountcisco wrote: »

Just heard Professor Willie Donnelly on KCLR saying the concept of a merger is fully acccepted. WIT "absolutely not" going it alone. Looks like a thumbs up for TUSE.

What a disaster. Especially for WIT. Fine Gael hammering Waterford again. Interesting to see the usual trolls so mute on here.

O Riain

7upfree wrote: »

What a disaster. Especially for WIT. Fine Gael hammering Waterford again. Interesting to see the usual trolls so mute on here.

Look, we will have to wait and see, I will admit it doesn't seem anywhere near what we wanted but if it results in more funding then maybe something good might come of it.

If it's just a re-branding then Fine Gael will never get another seat in Waterford ever again.

Wanderer78

i have a funny feeling, if this goes ahead, it ll be just like the re-branding of the rtc's in the 90's, i.e. it didnt really mean much in the end as everybody got the it name in the end.

invara

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i have a funny feeling, if this goes ahead, it ll be just like the re-branding of the rtc's in the 90's, i.e. it didnt really mean much in the end as everybody got the name in the end.

That is exactly what is happening. Half of the IoTs plan to become TUs in the first wave (7 of the 13); and most of the rest are making rumblings about starting the process. The government have clearly said no new money for TUs- so you are totally right; TUs will be 100% the same as IoTs.

When the people of the south east realise they have been hoodwinked for another generation they will bay for the politicians who did not stand up to the department of education and HEA.

WIT management, faculty and unions have told the government and Kelly that the south east needs to double the higher education capacity (to catch up with the national average for participation), and invest to grow research capacity out to support a knowledge economy in the south east. They are not listening; maybe they will when they have to knock on the doors of WIT families across the region.

imacman

invara wrote: »

That is exactly what is happening. Half of the IoTs plan to become TUs in the first wave (7 of the 13); and most of the rest are making rumblings about starting the process. The government have clearly said no new money for TUs- so you are totally right; TUs will be 100% the same as IoTs.

When the people of the south east realise they have been hoodwinked for another generation they will bay for the politicians who did not stand up to the department of education and HEA.

WIT management, faculty and unions have told the government and Kelly that the south east needs to double the higher education capacity (to catch up with the national average for participation), and invest to grow research capacity out to support a knowledge economy in the south east. They are not listening; maybe they will when they have to knock on the doors of WIT families across the region.

Great comment, it amuses me to the vested interests of the region like politicans, chamber of commerce , Ibec etc seem to think that this TU plan is the panacea to all the problems of the southeast.The lack to investigation and and knowledge from these parties about the whole flawed TU process is dangerous.In simple terms to the man on the street a TU sounds good but when you look deeper it's doesn't stack up without lots of funding.

imacman

Interesting
http://www.wlrfm.com/news/local/39620-wit-president-says-there-are-other-options-other-than-merger-with-it-carlow.html

JaCrispy

imacman wrote: »

Interesting
http://www.wlrfm.com/news/local/39620-wit-president-says-there-are-other-options-other-than-merger-with-it-carlow.html

Yet just yesterday he says

“Indeed, with a determined approach by both Institutes to work together on the planning and implementation of the necessary steps up to application for designation (Stage 4) , there is no obvious reason why the project could not be advanced to Stage 4 within this three-year period.”

http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/it-carlow-chief-says-tu-prize-is-worth-pursuing/

What is he up to then?

imacman

JaCrispy wrote: »

Yet just yesterday he says


http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/it-carlow-chief-says-tu-prize-is-worth-pursuing/

What is he up to then?

Playing the game I think

imacman

Ferdinand von Prondzynski, Principal and Vice-Chancellor of Robert Gordon University, Aberdeen, Scotland. He was President of Dublin City University, Ireland, between July 2000 and July 2010 and internationally renowned educator and analyst of higher education strategy.

His comments on the WIT / ITCarlow merger

To quote

"Michael Kelly’s report, apart from introducing the unattractive acronym TUSE for the proposed ‘technological university’, provides little evidence that a merger would advance the key quality criteria for a university; indeed the report recognises that to date collaboration between the two did not really develop because of the different nature of the two institutes and their lack of physical proximity.

I can absolutely see the case for a University of Waterford. I can see no case for a merger between two largely incompatible institutions, one of which manifestly is not of university level standing. This policy makes no sense whatsoever."

Boom back in your box itcarlow

https://universitydiary.wordpress.com/2015/08/05/talking-points-for-heavens-sake-stop-obsessing-about-mergers/

JaCrispy

imacman wrote: »

Boom back in your box itcarlow

Nice work Imacman - ITcarlow fully and categorically put back in their box. :D:D:D

That's it. Just hand over Uni status to WIT. :D:D:D

Anyway just because some dude with numerous controversies attached to his name has some unfounded and unsubstantiated OPINION means absolutely nothing.

I'd expect the absolute bile from you previous post to come from fuzzy, not you imacman. I'm disappointed in you.

ec18

JaCrispy wrote: »

Anyway just because some dude with numerous controversies attached to his name has some unfounded and unsubstantiated OPINION means absolutely nothing.

no need to bash the kelly report like that