Waterford University discussion

imacman

plasticman3327 wrote: »

They would. They would just call it something more sensible like "Electronic Computer Engineering"

Interent of things is a new discipline rather than just a course, it will become as colloquial a term as world wide web as time goes on

imacman

invara wrote: »

http://www.ucd.ie/bdic/prospectivestudents/degreescourses/undergraduatecourses/betheinternetofthingsiotengineering/

A joint UCD-Beijing University of Technology degree.

Well the Principles of Marxism or Construction of Socialism and Chinese Characteristics , Morality, Ethnic Cultivation and Fundamentals of Law or
Mao Zedong's Thought and Chinese Characteristic Socialism Theory aren't modules in the WIT course so you cant really compare them

Suryavarman

invara wrote: »

http://www.ucd.ie/bdic/prospectivestudents/degreescourses/undergraduatecourses/betheinternetofthingsiotengineering/

A joint UCD-Beijing University of Technology degree.

Please tell me that degree an April Fools' joke?

invara

WIT is back in discussions about becoming a TU, with a consultant appointed to handle the jabs and low blows between ITCarlow and WIT management. Another bout of reasonableness to get the politicians off the hook for their fiasco.

Jane Williams to join the long list - Kelly, Browne, Hunt, Port; and that is just the last 5 years. I think we all wish Williams well in her appointment.

imacman

invara wrote: »

WIT is back in discussions about becoming a TU, with a consultant appointed to handle the jabs and low blows between ITCarlow and WIT management. Another bout of reasonableness to get the politicians off the hook for their fiasco.

Jane Williams to join the long list - Kelly, Browne, Hunt, Port; and that is just the last 5 years. I think we all wish Williams well in her appointment.

So another consultant appointed , how much does she cost , someone should do a foi on this and how much kelly was paid too.This again shows how stupid much the "3 years" statement is as all decisions on the project will have to go her as mediator. More evidence on how damaged the process is.

wellboytoo

invara wrote: »

WIT is back in discussions about becoming a TU, with a consultant appointed to handle the jabs and low blows between ITCarlow and WIT management. Another bout of reasonableness to get the politicians off the hook for their fiasco.

Jane Williams to join the long list - Kelly, Browne, Hunt, Port; and that is just the last 5 years. I think we all wish Williams well in her appointment.

A band aid on a severed artery

7upfree

http://www.munster-express.ie/local-news/fine-gaels-university-pledge/

2008.

Fine Gael nationally has finally, officially, pledged to join in the fight for a university for Waterford. And its Education Spokesman Brian Hayes promised this week not to drop the cudgel until it is delivered.


While its’ local representatives have long been behind the campaign the party itself has been reluctant to commit itself. But that has now changed and amid fears that the government is going to refuse an upgrading of WIT when it responds to the Port Report, Mr. Hayes came to Waterford on Monday to confirm his support and that of his leader Enda Kenny.

He promised that Fine Gael would campaign vigorously on the issue in opposition and if unsuccessful would deliver on its commitment if returned to power at the next election. Meanwhile – again in the absence of their desired response from the current government – it would be made a prime issue in the local and European elections next year.

The hope among campaigners is that Fine Gael’s stance will help pressure the Coalition into saying yes.

Mr. Hayes said that although Waterford could not be dealt with in isolation in terms of education needs, it had a unique and special case for a university. “I’m calling on the government to respond positively to the Port Report and if it doesn’t I’m pledging to keep this matter on the agenda until there is delivery”, he told the local media.

He accused the government of neglecting Waterford and the region in terms of educational investment. “Having designated Waterford as a Gateway City it failed to follow up with education funding”, he said. “This is particularly stark when one considers that only 11.2 p.c. of adults in the south east have completed third level education to degree stage or higher, compared to 15.6 p.c. nationally and 21.3 p.c. in Dublin”.


Petition


Arguing that a university was vital for further economic development in the region, he said one of the first questions asked by prospective investors concerned the availability of top grade education. And while WIT had served its purpose outstandingly well, people from abroad who were thinking of coming here wanted university education for their children and those of their management personnel.

The Shadow Spokesman also wants DIT’s application for university status to be met. And in an overhaul of the higher education sector he also wants a review of the criteria required for university designation, a new “umbrella university” for the Institute of Technology sector and greater collaboration between Institutes of Technology and regional universities.

Present at the Waterford launch of the Fine Gael strategy were TDs John Deasy and Phil Hogan, Senators Maurice Cummins, Paudie Coffey and John Paul Phelan, Mayor Mary O’Halloran and her FG City Council colleagues Hilary Quinlan and Tom Cunningham.

The Mayor welcomed her party’s strategy and Senator Cummins drew attention to a petition with 3,000 signatures gathered by Waterford Young Fine Gael (of which his son John is chairman) at schools throughout the city and county.

Not all schools took part, however. Those which did are: De La Salle College, Our Lady of Mercy, St. Angela’s, Stella Maris, Tramore, Abbey Community College, Ferrybank, Blackwater CC and St. Augustine’s, Dungarvan.

imacman

Release from Carlow Today.
"The Governing Body of IT Carlow has today (August 27th) agreed to enter the facilitation process recommended by Michael Kelly to reinvigorate the Technological University project in the South East. Mr John Moore, Chairman of IT Carlow Governing Body, said that he "is confident that a committed and equal partnership between both Institutes will deliver a Technological University for the South East region within three years." He went on to welcome the appointment of Ms Jane Williams as facilitator for the process."

This whole three years idea is so disingenuous.The kelly report itself said it would take three years to reach level 4 status which in itself is widely optimistic seeing that the Dublin bid has already took longer than that , still isn't at level 4 and has three institutes that are enthusiastic about the merger.

Only at level 4 can you apply to become a TU and then another process begins to determine whether that can be moved forward so this is pure deceptive speak from carlow and they know that this timespan is impossible . But to the man in the street according to Itcarlow there will be a TU open and operating for students by 2018 , this just shows how dysfunctional and political tainted this whole process is.

robp

How far is WIT from reaching the threshold of staff qualifications? I presume those without masters can enrol in masters part time but it must be more complicated for those requiring PhDs. A full time PhD takes 4 or 5 years. It'd be a challenge to do part time.

invara

robp wrote: »

How far is WIT from reaching the threshold of staff qualifications? I presume those without masters can enrol in masters part time but it must be more complicated for those requiring PhDs. A full time PhD takes 4 or 5 years. It'd be a challenge to do part time.

From my understanding with modest investment WIT would meet all the various elements of the TU criteria (as currently presented) with regard to staff profile, in their toughest interpretation. On a standard interpretation WIT should meet the criteria today. We have yet to see the legislation, and the intricacies of the process have not yet been set out. So we only have the very broad brush-stokes, set out in discussion documents by the HEA to go on.

In 2005 WIT applied for university status under the existing university legislation and that application was made in the belief that WIT is comparable to existing universities- a number of dry-run international peer-reviews by external people were conducted around that time to prepare WIT, and to test the claims made in the submission. The government eventually commissioned the Port report, and Dr Jim Port also suggested that WIT would meet the normally understood criteria to be considered a university (see: http://www.labour.ie/press/2008/02/22/begin-process-of-university-status-for-wit-oshea-h/ ) - and he said it in the most compliementary terms.

Many WIT lecturers, in the midst of their careers have completed PhDs with little in the way of practical supports or incentives as part of their commitment to their job, to WIT and to the regions development. As someone who has done this myself, it is hard but can be done. In should be noted, that a similar thing has been happening in the traditional universities too; over the past twenty years many lecturers hired before PhDs were the norm have taken on the challenge.

imacman

robp wrote: »

How far is WIT from reaching the threshold of staff qualifications? I presume those without masters can enrol in masters part time but it must be more complicated for those requiring PhDs. A full time PhD takes 4 or 5 years. It'd be a challenge to do part time.

A extract from the Taylor report about this question

Viewed in isolation, WIT is approaching the successful achievement of the agreed criteria. Data analysis is difficult, and the precise definitions to be used are imprecise. However, recent increases in student numbers at Masters and Doctoral levels mean that the 4% threshold is near to being met; similarly, taking into account new appointments, the target of 45% of staff with doctorates or the equivalent is close to being achieved. Indeed, depending on how the data are presented, some targets may already have been met. As far as research activity is concerned, WIT has a strong record of applied research in several areas, with significant social and economic impact and clear international recognition. Much to its credit, WIT has built up a critical mass of research activity in a number of different areas, and has also developed the infrastructure necessary to support a strong base of research activity. I am in no doubt that WIT is “moving in the right direction”, with a positive trajectory that will ensure that the TU criteria are met in the near future. My very rough estimate is that WIT alone will satisfy the quantitative criteria by the end of 2015-16.

I wish to stress that ITC has much to offer a new merged institution, as demonstrated by the award of Sunday Times Institute of Technology of the year for 2014. However, as far as research activity is concerned, ITC currently falls well short of the agreed criteria. Student numbers have grown significantly in recent years, but much of the expansion has been at undergraduate level. Until recently, with some exceptions, research was not seen as a key priority for staff relative to teaching and learning. Today, research is an emerging activity and there are pockets of work with a strong business profile and potential, and a clear research strategy has been developed. However, whilst research is now increasing, it will take some years before the TU criteria can be achieved .

imacman

Ferdinand von Prondzynski is back commenting on about the TU merger , talking sense from a real educator with no parish pump agenda

As evidence of the truth that bad ideas are particularly hard to kill, everyone continues to conspire to ensure that the idiotic notion of a ‘technological university’ for the South-East of Ireland built on a shotgun marriage between Waterford and Carlow institutes of technology comes to pass. What most of us, or maybe any of us, say to this probably makes no difference to those driving this crazy policy, but anyway, I wrote the following letter to the Editor of the Irish Independent.

‘So, we are told that a new “technological university” for the South-East is “back on track”. There is a good case to be made for a normal university for Waterford, but the concept of the multi-campus “technological university” is crazy. What WIT has been told is that it is not qualified to be a university, but that if it merges with a much weaker institution (Carlow IT) located miles away it will be eligible. This makes no sense of any kind, and is a recipe for disaster.

The whole idea of “technological universities” dreamt up in the Hunt Report is badly thought through, and the government really should not be going ahead with it. There is no evidence anywhere that creating multi-location institutions with no track record of strategic collaboration or coordinated provision is a good idea.

This really does need to go back to the drawing board.’

It will all happen anyway of course. Evidence-based policies are not in fashion.

JaCrispy

robp wrote: »

How far is WIT from reaching the threshold of staff qualifications? I presume those without masters can enrol in masters part time but it must be more complicated for those requiring PhDs. A full time PhD takes 4 or 5 years. It'd be a challenge to do part time.

WHAT MAKES A UNIVERSITY? THE CRITERIA FOR TU STATUS

• A target of 90 per cent of staff at Level 9 (master’s) of the Hetac qualifications framework, and 45 per cent at Level 10 (doctorate). Currently, there are 89 per cent and 31 per cent, respectively, at WIT; and 96 per cent and 28 per cent at IT Carlow.
• Target of 4 per cent of postgraduate research students at Levels 9 or 10. Currently, WIT has 3 per cent, while IT Carlow has 2 per cent.
• Target of 30 per cent of students to be in lifelong learning (mature/returning students). Currently, WIT has 15 per cent, while Carlow has 38 per cent.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/southeast-college-merger-a-suitable-match-or-a-forced-marriage-1.2101669

JaCrispy

imacman wrote: »

What WIT has been told is that it is not qualified to be a university, but that if it merges with a much weaker institution (Carlow IT) located miles away it will be eligible.

Not even weaker but MUCH weaker . I'd love to know how he quantifies this statement. Until then I reckon he has some ulterior motive ....especially considering he is transfixed upon the WIT/ITC merger whilst totally ignoring other mergers.

fiachr_a

As much sense as merging the two hurling teams.

imacman

JaCrispy wrote: »

Not even weaker but MUCH weaker . I'd love to know how he quantifies this statement. Until then I reckon he has some ulterior motive ....especially considering he is transfixed upon the WIT/ITC merger whilst totally ignoring other mergers.

I agree his point that carlow is a much weaker institution is not correct , but the some of the other points he made are very true.

" There is no evidence anywhere that creating multi-location institutions with no track record of strategic collaboration or coordinated provision is a good idea."

fuzzy dunlop

JaCrispy wrote: »

Not even weaker but MUCH weaker . I'd love to know how he quantifies this statement. Until then I reckon he has some ulterior motive ....especially considering he is transfixed upon the WIT/ITC merger whilst totally ignoring other mergers.

Because the WIT upgrade has been the impetus for this merger nonsense. That is why. If there was no drive for University Status for WIT there would never have been any merger proposals.

fuzzy dunlop

JaCrispy wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/southeast-college-merger-a-suitable-match-or-a-forced-marriage-1.2101669

This nonsnens has been debunked before as you well know. The criteria is completely made up and only exists to force a merger. While the figures have been taken from selected areas in order to inflate Carlows numbers. Remember? When you were posting as Peter Falk!

JaCrispy

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

This nonsnens has been debunked before as you well know. The criteria is completely made up and only exists to force a merger. While the figures have been taken from selected areas in order to inflate Carlows numbers. Remember? When you were posting as Peter Falk!

Where has it been debunked? I was simply answering the question posed by another poster - I was simply listing the criteria - not the merits of it.
And why would the Irish Times selectively inflate Carlows numbers?

fuzzy dunlop

JaCrispy wrote: »

Where has it been debunked? I was simply answering the question posed by another poster - I was simply listing the criteria - not the merits of it.
And why would the Irish Times selectively inflate Carlows numbers?

This was discussed on the other thread when you posted the same link as Peter Falk. This criteria is completely made up by the HEA at the behest of the government. This is a fact! And like I told you on the other thread their is no sources disclosed in the IT article with regard the criteria. It is a planted story! The IT's reputation as they paper of record is a complete anachronism that they have compromised years ago. The newspaper is a glorified local newspaper for Dublin South East which represents the wealthiest classes in this country and which are located two of the most important Universities in the country.

invara

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Also the populations of surrounding counties Kilkenny, Wexford, Carlow and South Tipp also suffer in jobs terms by not having a university nearby, their kids have to travel long distances if they want a university education.

This is the nub of it- good post.

Today's action plan for jobs report shows politicians going go doolally over call centre jobs- which are barely above the social welfare threshold, and most people would not like to see their kids doing long term. In the report the continued decline in the stock of good quality jobs across the region is detailed. The report's total silence on the university issue is shameful- it is the only thing that will bring the region up to the economic performance of the rest of the country.

ec18

invara wrote: »

. The report's total silence on the university issue is shameful- it is the only thing that will bring the region up to the economic performance of the rest of the country.

I'm sorry, I'd like to see a university in Waterford as well but this rhetoric of all we need is a university to get things back on track is getting boring and potentially horribly mis informed. WIT as it stands is an internationally well known institution with a great reputation, with it's links to the TSSG has been responsible for many successful spin outs (Feedhenry as an example). There is a growing pharma element here with Genzyme and GSK in Dungaravan.

This idea that the university is all Waterford needs is false. Personally I think Waterford has a reputation as a union thinking type stronghold where strikes are always a possibility that some companies just don't want to deal with.

To me it seems a much better cause would be developing the airport than a university.........

O Riain

ec18 wrote: »

I'm sorry, I'd like to see a university in Waterford as well but this rhetoric of all we need is a university to get things back on track is getting boring and potentially horribly mis informed. WIT as it stands is an internationally well known institution with a great reputation, with it's links to the TSSG has been responsible for many successful spin outs (Feedhenry as an example). There is a growing pharma element here with Genzyme and GSK in Dungaravan.

This idea that the university is all Waterford needs is false. Personally I think Waterford has a reputation as a union thinking type stronghold where strikes are always a possibility that some companies just don't want to deal with.

To me it seems a much better cause would be developing the airport than a university.........

This is getting a bit old. Other counties/cities have had more high profile strikes lately than we have had. If this even was an issue then they would be looking at recent incidents, not incidents that happened before half the town was born.

Do you even realise the gulf in funding between W.I.T and the universities? I don't give a crap whether they call it a Uni, a techno Uni or an I.T. but the institute needs more funding. If it got this (the regions fair share) then we would get an amazing return from it. I suggest taking a trip to NUIG or UL just to see the difference, you will honestly not believe your eyes, it's like comparing Tokyo to Ballybeg.

Yes, the airport needs to be developed but it's all part of the puzzle. We need a region with comparable third level funding to other regions AND we need a good airport. With these in place then it makes it easier to attract decent size companies, without one or the other then you are essentially trying to win a running race with your shoe laces tied together.

ec18

O Riain wrote: »

This is getting a bit old. Other counties/cities have had more high profile strikes lately than we have had. If this even was an issue then they would be looking at recent incidents, not incidents that happened before half the town was born.

Do you even realise the gulf in funding between W.I.T and the universities? I don't give a crap whether they call it a Uni, a techno Uni or an I.T. but the institute needs more funding. If it got this (the regions fair share) then we would get an amazing return from it. I suggest taking a trip to NUIG or UL just to see the difference, you will honestly not believe your eyes, it's like comparing Tokyo to Ballybeg.

Yes, the airport needs to be developed but it's all part of the puzzle. We need a region with comparable third level funding to other regions AND we need a good airport. With these in place then it makes it easier to attract decent size companies, without one or the other then you are essentially trying to win a running race with your shoe laces tied together.

I'd actually wager that having a convenient international air links would be a bigger factor than a university in attracting international companies. My problem with this whole argument is that this university is being hailed as the ultimate solution to Waterfords problems. When it isn't.

It might help but it is a smaller part of the solution than its being marketed as. There's been no statistics published (that I'm aware of but am open to correction) that cite WIT not being a university as to why business has gone elsewhere....

fuzzy dunlop

ec18 wrote: »

I'd actually wager that having a convenient international air links would be a bigger factor than a university in attracting international companies. My problem with this whole argument is that this university is being hailed as the ultimate solution to Waterfords problems. When it isn't.

It might help but it is a smaller part of the solution than its being marketed as. There's been no statistics published (that I'm aware of but am open to correction) that cite WIT not being a university as to why business has gone elsewhere....

This was the specific reason given by the IDA on their lackluster performance with regard to job creation here. Galway has dreadful air links and yet job creation is masive when both cities are compared. So the only difference after that is the Uni issue.Waterford has far superior advantages in geography and infrastructure. I agree with you in that I don't think the University is the panacea to our problems but when the government through their Quangos make this the issue then they should not be left off the hook...

imacman

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

This was the specific reason given by the IDA on their lackluster performance with regard to job creation here. Galway has dreadful air links and yet job creation is masive when both cities are compared. So the only difference after that is the Uni issue.Waterford has far superior advantages in geography and infrastructure. I agree with you in that I don't think the University is the panacea to our problems but when the government through their Quangos make this the issue then they should not be left off the hook...

I agree I think a university would help but isn't the panacea to to all of the south east issues .But that would be a real university with university funding , not some technological university re-branding exercise which becomes a Frankenstein merger with no funding increases to play to parish pump politics . But we have all been saying that for a long time here

Max Powers

imacman wrote: »

I agree I think a university would help but isn't the panacea to to all of the south east issues .But that would be a real university with university funding , not some technological university re-branding exercise which becomes a Frankenstein merger with no funding increases to play to parish pump politics . But we have all been saying that for a long time here

A uni will help, just like a well linked airport helps. I think the biggest help would be that the IDA would not be able to use 'lack of uni' as an excuse to continue pushing IDA to Dublin Cork Galway. They used the lack of a good road to dublin as 'the' excuse for years so they had to find a new excuse. Luckily, with the new lady appointed as regional manager for IDA SE, i think we have a better chance of winning more.

imacman

Big announcement on capital projects today
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/dublin-rail-children-s-hospital-and-schools-in-27bn-capital-plan-1.2370414
The word is that WIT has been told that they will receive no support from this even though the engineering building is shovel ready.Be interesting to see if Carlow get funding , but it looks like the standing up to the bully boys in government about the TU is going to cost WIT . Its depressing really

Bards

imacman wrote: »

Big announcement on capital projects today
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/dublin-rail-children-s-hospital-and-schools-in-27bn-capital-plan-1.2370414
The word is that WIT has been told that they will receive no support from this even though the engineering building is shovel ready.Be interesting to see if Carlow get funding , but it looks like the standing up to the bully boys in government about the TU is going to cost WIT . Its depressing really

There will be an election within the next 6 months or so

7upfree

imacman wrote: »

Big announcement on capital projects today
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/dublin-rail-children-s-hospital-and-schools-in-27bn-capital-plan-1.2370414
The word is that WIT has been told that they will receive no support from this even though the engineering building is shovel ready.Be interesting to see if Carlow get funding , but it looks like the standing up to the bully boys in government about the TU is going to cost WIT . Its depressing really

Waterford's treatment at the hands of Fine Gael again. I hope people remember at the ballot box.