Waterford University discussion

JaCrispy

fiachr_a wrote: »

Is there a way of flooding the Barrow right beside Carlow IT? That would put a halt to their university nonsense.

Jesus christ, wishing such a thing to happen.

What a repugnant viewpoint you have.

fuzzy dunlop

imacman wrote: »

I see ITcarlow are already building the Technological university. This is little insight into arrogance of Carlowit and you can see why the relationship with WIT is so toxic.WIT need to stand their ground with these bullies or WIT will end up just being and outreach campus of the Southeast (Carlow) Technological University

If only it were as simple as putting up hording....... This is just a piece of promotional material. Meaningless really.....

fuzzy dunlop

imacman wrote: »

Some really common sense commentary from the TUI on the technological university debate
http://www.tui.ie/news-events/technological-universities-bill-must-be-amended-to-protect-sector-.7924.html

‘We believe that the requirement that Institutes of Technology must merge before they can apply for Technological University status is more related to rationalisation of the institutes within the sector than to any academic considerations based on the particular missions, values and ethos of particular institutes. The exact rationale for this requirement has never been clearly established and it must be removed from the Bill.’

Throughout this whole process, there has, in some institutes, been a consistent failure to consult properly with the real experts - the academic staff.’

‘The Bill is excessively focused on the concerns of business and enterprise. It would be a grave mistake to prioritise the short-term needs of employers over the long-term needs of students and society. An appropriate balance is required.’

Queue the "us too" brigade from Carlow claiming the TUI have some sort of vested interest, are not partial, disgraced or some other BS that doesn't support the TU clusterf#ck.

Election in a couple of months. The lies will not wash this time.

fiachr_a

Carlow has higher drop out rates for degrees than WIT: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/revealed-non-progression-rates-for-higher-education-courses-1.2491746

RYGCat

fiachr_a wrote: »

Carlow has higher drop out rates for degrees than WIT: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/revealed-non-progression-rates-for-higher-education-courses-1.2491746

Selective on those stats there fiachr_a. You haven't noticed WIT is broke and in a 3 year plan for viability after an over €12 million bailout?

imacman

RYGCat wrote: »

Selective on those stats there fiachr_a. You haven't noticed WIT is broke and in a 3 year plan for viability after an over €12 million bailout?

Fair comment , and I am sure everyone in Carlow and the TU cheerleaders will be delighted to see their surplus used to help pay WITs ongoing deficit instead of developing CarlowIT. Thats what the result of a merger isn't it , the two parties share everything , for better and for worst , richer and poorer and all that .Thats the governments plan , as the TUI says "
We believe that the requirement that Institutes of Technology must merge before they can apply for Technological University status is more related to rationalisation of the institutes within the sector than to any academic considerations based on the particular missions, values and ethos of particular institutes"
This is just about the money and cutting down the costs in the IOT sector ,the quality education and the viability of the new institutes are secondary concerns .Hats off to CarlowIT they have done a lot of things right over the last few years and their financial position is one of the best in the IOT sector where most of the other IOTs are just breaking even or in deficit like WIT. Do they want to throw all of the away for what is just a re-brand as a TU ???

Max Powers

imacman wrote: »

Fair comment , and I am sure everyone in Carlow and the TU cheerleaders will be delighted to see their surplus used to help pay WITs ongoing deficit instead of developing CarlowIT. Thats what the result of a merger isn't it , the two parties share everything , for better and for worst , richer and poorer and all that .Thats the governments plan , as the TUI says "
We believe that the requirement that Institutes of Technology must merge before they can apply for Technological University status is more related to rationalisation of the institutes within the sector than to any academic considerations based on the particular missions, values and ethos of particular institutes"
This is just about the money and cutting down the costs in the IOT sector.Hats off to CarlowIT they have done a lot of things right over the last few years and their financial position is one of the best in the IOT sector where most of the other IOTs are just breaking even or in deficit like WIT. Do they want to throw all of the away for what is just a re-brand as a TU ???

What we need to see is a break down of the cuts if any that Carlow and indeed all other IOTs/Unis received compared to the crazy cuts WIT endured, something like 20% over the last 3-5 years cut I heard from one person working there, when you consider that probably 80% of their costs are fixed (wages) its hard to see where budgets could be managed without redundancies. WIT outperforms numerous IOTs and Uni on external investment from private sector/research led money brought into the organisation.

The obvious suspicion is 'keep cutting WIT until they come to heel'.

imacman

From the Irish times on their article about IOT financially vulnerabilities
Institutes of Technology generated comparatively modest amounts of income. The most, €17 million, was brought in by private research contracts at Waterford IT.

According to the WIT president they are down 10 million in funding per anum from the HEA as compared to 6 years ago.This is a vicious circle as lack of funding means lack of development and investment in things like IT and campus facilities which leads to a drop of student numbers and leads to less funding. WIT hasn't helped itself with the campus services mess and the previous presidents expenses but it does look like the dept of education sees WIT as the bad boys in the class

fiachr_a

WIT will be uniting with Carlow next month when its lecturers go on strike!

imacman

Some good news for WIT for a change
https://www.wit.ie/news/all_news/construction-contract-signed-for-completion-of-sports-facilities

imacman

Emergency governing body meeting in WIT on Friday.I have heard rumblings that WIT are going to announce and indefinite suspension of the Merger and TU process on Financial grounds.If this happens it will be a master stroke from WIT as they have been told by the dept and HEA they have to get their finances in order and break even in the next three years.The government is providing no extra funding for the merger/TU so WIT is going to say how can it pour money into this merger process and still function financially on a day to day basis.This all remains to be seen but it may be an interesting week

imacman

Real momentum growing against the TU legislation , the penny is finally dropping on how dysfunctional this process is
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0126/762964-tui-universities-bill/

Speaking on RTÉ’s Morning Ireland, Gerry Quinn said it was a complex bill and there is insufficient time to deal with the 100 or so proposed amendments from opposition parties and TDs before the election.

Mr Quinn said the Bill provides for the Institutes of Technology to change to Technological Universities and in doing so there is a requirement for two or more Institutes of Technology to merge into a single new institution.

However, he said no credible and evidence-based explanation has been given for this requirement and in the absence of such a requirement, the "the spectre of austerity cuts looms large".

He said the move would have a knock on effect for the good work currently being done regionally, economically socially and culturally by such organisations as well as putting the terms and conditions of employees within the organisations at risk.

JaCrispy

imacman wrote: »

Emergency governing body meeting in WIT on Friday.I have heard rumblings that WIT are going to announce and indefinite suspension of the Merger and TU process on Financial grounds.

Quite the contrary!!!!

taytobreath

Got this email this morning...

In line with the recommendations of the Kelly Report, the Minister for Education and Skills established a facilitation process between Carlow and Waterford institutes of technology. Ms Jane Williams was appointed facilitator in September 2015. The institutes were mainly represented by the Chairmen of the Governing Bodies and the Presidents. The facilitation process involved a series of meetings which focused on the previous interactions, the building blocks required to build trust and most importantly the potential for delivering a Technological University of the South East through re-engagement.

The facilitation is now coming to a conclusion. On Friday (22nd January) Ms Williams updated a joint meeting of the Carlow and Waterford institutes of iechnology on the outcomes of the process. While the engagement was understandably complex due to the nature of the breakdown in relations, I am satisfied that the facilitation helped both institutes to move beyond the previous engagement and focus on the opportunities and challenges provided by the TU process.

It has been agreed by the Presidents and Chairs that there is a need for a technological university in the South East to ensure the economic, social and cultural advancement of the region. It was also agreed that such a technological university should be delivered by the indigenous third level institutes within the region. The WIT Governing Body believes that future engagement between both institutes must be in the context of the delivery of a university. It will commit to a merger application only if it is confident that delivery of an appropriately resourced Technological University for the South East would be the outcome.

As a result, the Waterford Institute of Technology Governing Body today agreed to recommence engagement with Carlow on stage two of the Technological University process. My understanding is that Carlow Institute of Technology’s Governing Body will consider their position at their next meeting.

taytobreath

Got this email this morning...

In line with the recommendations of the Kelly Report, the Minister for Education and Skills established a facilitation process between Carlow and Waterford institutes of technology. Ms Jane Williams was appointed facilitator in September 2015. The institutes were mainly represented by the Chairmen of the Governing Bodies and the Presidents. The facilitation process involved a series of meetings which focused on the previous interactions, the building blocks required to build trust and most importantly the potential for delivering a Technological University of the South East through re-engagement.

The facilitation is now coming to a conclusion. On Friday (22nd January) Ms Williams updated a joint meeting of the Carlow and Waterford institutes of iechnology on the outcomes of the process. While the engagement was understandably complex due to the nature of the breakdown in relations, I am satisfied that the facilitation helped both institutes to move beyond the previous engagement and focus on the opportunities and challenges provided by the TU process.

It has been agreed by the Presidents and Chairs that there is a need for a technological university in the South East to ensure the economic, social and cultural advancement of the region. It was also agreed that such a technological university should be delivered by the indigenous third level institutes within the region. The WIT Governing Body believes that future engagement between both institutes must be in the context of the delivery of a university. It will commit to a merger application only if it is confident that delivery of an appropriately resourced Technological University for the South East would be the outcome.

As a result, the Waterford Institute of Technology Governing Body today agreed to recommence engagement with Carlow on stage two of the Technological University process. My understanding is that Carlow Institute of Technology’s Governing Body will consider their position at their next meeting.

imacman

I think this is the important line ,its an out if the funding isnt there

taytobreath wrote: »

The WIT Governing Body believes that future engagement between both institutes must be in the context of the delivery of a university. It will commit to a merger application only if it is confident that delivery of an appropriately resourced Technological University for the South East would be the outcome.

.

The emperor has no clothes in relation to this whole TU monstrosity and people are starting to point it out.Check out the Irish times today
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/creating-technological-universities-to-cost-students-says-union-1.2511551

Relevant quote

Susan Flannery, a TUI representative, said Minister for Education Jan O’Sullivan had been advised by her own experts that mergers were a costly process and that institutes of technology would have to bear the bulk of the fees.
She noted comments made by chief executive of the Higher Education Authority (HEA) at a recent Dáil committee, in which he said he expected institutions would raise funds through revenue-generating measures or other costs.

WIT is in massive financial difficulties and on the one hand has been told by the HEA that they need sort this out in the next 3 years and on the other is being asked to pour money into this forced merger at the cost of the students and the day to day operations of the institute. And nobody in ITCarlow should be happy about this , Im sure the HEA has an eye on the nice surplus Carlow has which it could see as an easy way to pay of WITs debts at no cost to the HEA. The TU is a smokescreen for rationalization and cost saving in the IOT sector

invara

Not one GE candidate has mentioned the University issue. No mention of manifestos either. Promises were all the rage back in 2011.

imacman

invara wrote: »

Not one GE candidate has mentioned the University issue. No mention of manifestos either. Promises were all the rage back in 2011.

The Issue has become a poisoned chalice. The fact that the TU legislation didn't make it through the Dail before it disbanded(despite the governments efforts to crowbar it through) has left things in limbo. Added to this the TUI opposition and groups like the Cork city council voting not to support the merger between CIT and ItTralee the wheels seem to be coming off TU bandwagon. I think people have seen through the TU facade to see what its really about ,not education but consolation and cost savings.

invara

It still would be nice to see some strong advocacy for a fully funded, fully empowered university in the region; it is the single biggest thing that could bring the SE economy back into line with the rest of the country.

Wanderer78

invara wrote:

It still would be nice to see some strong advocacy for a fully funded, fully empowered university in the region; it is the single biggest thing that could bring the SE economy back into line with the rest of the country.

Ah bigger fish to fry I guess. Maybe we 'll get it in the next 'recovery' along with funding for our health care system, housing issues, flooding issues, ..........

imacman

invara wrote: »

It still would be nice to see some strong advocacy for a fully funded, fully empowered university in the region; it is the single biggest thing that could bring the SE economy back into line with the rest of the country.

Getting anything in Third level fully funded isn't a priority at the moment, the under-funding of third level over the last few years will come back to haunt the country in years to come. I think WIT should just get the head down and look at becoming the best IT in the country over the next few years.Its folly to pour money into a botched merger when campus facilities are crumbling

space2ground1

A university in Waterford would be very progressive for the SE region. To call it SE University stinks of keeping politicians outside Waterford but in the region happy. To call it a technical university stinks of keeping politicians outside the region happy. To hear our own representatives favouring an option that isn't the best for the people who elected them stinks of a dedication and immersion into their party above all else. TDs elected in Waterford who do not advocate for a Waterford based full university are in my opinion showing that their party takes precedence to them. TDs like that are no use to us because they'll spend their time convincing us that good for party, bad for Waterford solutions are the best on offer.

fiachr_a

Why does everyone want to go to university? No wonder 1 in 6 sit born here emigrate when they can't find work. What jobs in Waterford require a degree?

BBM77

fiachr_a wrote: »

...What jobs in Waterford require a degree?

Mine

fiachr_a

BBM77 wrote: »

Mine

WIT lecturer.

BBM77

fiachr_a wrote: »

WIT lecturer.

Worst attempt at extrapolation ever

Doylers

fiachr_a wrote: »

Why does everyone want to go to university? No wonder 1 in 6 sit born here emigrate when they can't find work. What jobs in Waterford require a degree?

Point of getting a degree is to escape waterford

Wanderer78

Doylers wrote: »

Point of getting a degree is to escape waterford

get over it lads. i know plenty of people from waterford and working here that have qualifications beyond degrees. educational qualifications are an amazing personal achievement and can be a life changing experience.

imacman

I have heard rumblings that the northwest TU bid (GMIT , SligoIT and LetterkennyIT) is hitting the rocks.The sheer geographic distance involved doesn't make sense in the first place and every passing week there seems to be another nail in the coffin of the TU program or at least the "have to merge" criteria.

invara

Fine Gael manifesto '16 (published today) drops their previous promise to create a university in Waterford; and plans to push on with the mad and unwanted TU. I do not know which is worse- that they lied in 2011 or that they could not be bothered to make the promise again. Anyway, for a constituency that had three government TD's in the last outing- we got mauled by the other cities.