Waterford University discussion

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote:

Yeah I found it a bit funny. When I started WIT in 2013 they were telling me that a Technical University is about to happen soon and there I was sitting at my graduation and they are still saying it will happen soon

Ah soons not here yet

Kadser

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah I found it a bit funny. When I started WIT in 2013 they were telling me that a Technical University is about to happen soon and there I was sitting at my graduation and they are still saying it will happen soon

There were WIT students back in 1983 who were told that too.

allthedoyles

callaway92 wrote: »

At the graduations Willie Donnelly's speeches were confident of a University merger eventually happening sooner rather than later. I couldn't help but laugh to myself. They have never been further away from it.

I was there too for Willie Donnellys speech , and was surprised at his negative comments at such a positive event .

Like him addessing an audience and informing all that Waterford was struggling for University status is sending the wrong message to future students looking at Waterford as a destination.

Wanderer78

allthedoyles wrote: »

I was there too for Willie Donnellys speech , and was surprised at his negative comments at such a positive event .

Like him addessing an audience and informing all that Waterford was struggling for University status is sending the wrong message to future students looking at Waterford as a destination.

joys of politics

allthedoyles

Wanderer78 wrote: »

joys of politics

I didn't know Willie was a politician , but even so he should have been praising the college and what it had done for the students graduating , rather than focusing his graduation speech on WIT / Carlow amalgamating for a push on Uni status .

It didn't sound right at the event imo

Wanderer78

allthedoyles wrote: »

I didn't know Willie was a politician , but even so he should have been praising the college and what it had done for the students graduating , rather than focusing his graduation speech on WIT / Carlow amalgamating for a push on Uni status .

It didn't sound right at the event imo

oh hes knee deep in the game of politics

imacman

allthedoyles wrote: »

I was there too for Willie Donnellys speech , and was surprised at his negative comments at such a positive event .

Like him addessing an audience and informing all that Waterford was struggling for University status is sending the wrong message to future students looking at Waterford as a destination.

Sorry to disappoint you but Waterford is struggling along with most of the IOT sector. The university debate is a sideshow but Willie has to keep up the charade to keep the "regional stakeholders" happy . WIT and the others IOTs are in a bind as the solution as the HEA sees it is to increase the intake of students to increase funding.
But this is very difficult with facilities been run down , no new building developments and very little cash for marketing. As it stands WIT took in 2000 new students in Sept , the HEA goal for 2019 is 2400 students , but the campus as it stands couldnt really cope with those numbers.The science labs are running at 100% capacity at the moment , the engineering dept is been strangled by its lack of space and facilities, something has got to give.

Kadser

A lot of them will drop out/fail after the first year. Too many people going college that shouldn't. If WIT is packed with students then it's the college's fault.

Wanderer78

Kadser wrote: »

A lot of them will drop out/fail after the first year. Too many people going college that shouldn't. If WIT is packed with students then it's the college's fault.

due to systemic failure prior to third level!

imacman

Kadser wrote: »

A lot of them will drop out/fail after the first year. Too many people going college that shouldn't. If WIT is packed with students then it's the college's fault.

I agree there are too many people going to college are not suited to 3rd level education and would be better served in a apprenticeship or professional training course. Problem is the funding model for 3rd is based on student numbers and as the IOTs are legally barred from borrowing money the only way to increase funding is to increase student numbers.

Wanderer78

imacman wrote:

I agree there are too many people going to college are not suited to 3rd level education and would be better served in a apprenticeship or professional training course. Problem is the funding model for 3rd is based on student numbers and as the IOTs are legally barred from borrowing money the only way to increase funding is to increase student numbers.

Agree, and this is due to fundamental design flaws of our educational system prior to third level, and of course the funding issues you've mentioned

Kadser

If there's going to be a tech university in Waterford then the entrance requirements will be too high for most school-leavers. They will need good grades in honours maths and science subjects to avoid failing/quitting.

invara

Minster opening a 10m building in IT Carlow talked up a TU for the region, based on a merger within a decade!

https://kclr96fm.com/technological-university-south-east-still-part-education-ministers-plan/

TheQuietFella

Wanderer78 wrote: »

due to systemic failure prior to third level!

Whilst I would agree that one size does not fit everyone I would not agree with

the above statement. We are all different and some of us never really got in to

the school ethos but considering all that, I personally haven't done too bad!

Quite a lot of children today have a lot of distractions in the home that impact

upon their education. I personally believe that children should be able to read

& write before attending school where some parents either don't have the time

or the will to assist them in the basics!

Wanderer78

TheQuietFella wrote:

Whilst I would agree that one size does not fit everyone I would not agree with

I will both agree and disagree with your statement, our educational system is designed to ultimately prepare people for the workforce, this is a major flaw by design, they are ultimately factories, whereby, one size fits all, and not all humans learn by the methods and at the pace of the system, if you don't, you may find yourself in trouble very quickly. I have seen the system fail people spectacularly, leading to extremely complex problems such as mental health issues etc, I have also seen the system exasperate complex issues such as learning disabilities, behavioural problems etc etc. Our system almost prohibits free thinking, even noam chomsky has mentioned this is his work, and I'd have to agree with him, it's a largely rinse repeat system, whereby the student is more or less required to learn something off and regurgitate it. These are all fundamental system problems which can lead to very complex and sometimes irreversible social problems, I have discussed these issues with mental health professionals and specially trained professionals such as special needs assistance etc, all more or less agreeing.

Sadly many parents do not have the time and energy to invest in their kids education for various different reasons, I personally believe this is largely due to our fundamentally flawed economic and financial systems but that's a discussion for another thread.

I also think a lot of kids are simply bored and possibly unhappy in school caused by the above mentioned.

TheQuietFella

Completely agree with above!

imacman

invara wrote: »

Minster opening a 10m building in IT Carlow talked up a TU for the region, based on a merger within a decade!

https://kclr96fm.com/technological-university-south-east-still-part-education-ministers-plan/

Sounds like the minister is paying lip service to the process , if he thinks it will take a decade we could be waiting a long time. Remember the Kelly report of summer 2015 stated we would have a TU within 3 years.In effect all progress on TU mergers has ceased everywhere including the Dublin TU . DIT,TallaghtIT and BlanchardtownIT are miles down the merger /TU road and were meant to merge last September but all of that has been put on hold because the TU legislation is in limbo. It didn't get bulldozed through at the last minute by the last government and got pushed back to committee stage.Its contentious legislation as the Shinners and Fianna Fail dont agree with parts of the bill so like all contentious legislation with this government its been put on ice .
http://9thlevel.ie/2017/01/17/legislation-programme-for-springsummer-session-2017-3rd-level/


With the reported major funding problems across the whole IOT sector , putting money into TU mergers seems to be folly .
Add in things like

• Industrial relations issues in WIT where lecturers wont cooperate with merger activities,
• A massive funding deficit in WIT for IT equipment which could lead to real operational problems in WIT in the next year
• Science Labs running at 100% capacity ,
• An engineering dept creaking at the seams because of lack of space and with a real need for a new building
• Major investments in fire alarm system across all campuses just to keep up to fire code
• 85% of WITs income going on wages where in some depts lecturers dont have their full hours timetabled but IR issues stop them from being redeployed or used on evening/part time courses
• 10 million loan from the Dept of education to allow the WIT arena to be finished that needs to be paid back
• Ongoing funding fall out from the consolidation of campus services back into WIT

For WIT to use some of its tight budget and move some of its heads of school from the executive board on to a TU/merger project would be very bad for morale and impact on the day to day running of the institute at a time where all staff need to be onboard and working to help improve the institutes financial position.

Im sure the presidents of WIT and ITCarlow will keep up the charade that they are moving forward with the TU process to keep the "regional stakeholders" happy but in real terms WIT needs probably a decade to get their own house in order. With most of the other ITs in the country in similar financial trouble and the future of the TU legislation very unclear I think this whole process is dead in the water.

Dunmoreroader

Jesus wept. Meanwhile money will be and is being found for UCD, Trinners, UCC, UL, NUIG, Maynooth and De University of De Nortsiadd.

Max Powers

Local paper today....industrial dispute/issues resolved/agreed.

imacman

Max Powers wrote: »

Local paper today....industrial dispute/issues resolved/agreed.

That was an IR dispute related to the academic calendar nothing to do with the TU.There has been no industrial action related to the TU because there is nothing happening.

If a merger process begins and the management restructures, course changes and consolidation that are an inevitable result of a merger start happening the TUI will be out on the streets.The TUI in WIT are very militant and wont back down.

Killergreene

Is the hope for WIT to be given university status completely dead ?

Wanderer78

Killergreene wrote: »

Is the hope for WIT to be given university status completely dead ?

i have been campaigning for 20 years, i suspect in another 20 years, we could be still at the same game

invara

Killergreene wrote: »

Is the hope for WIT to be given university status completely dead ?

It will be some day, or Waterford will become a town and the south east will always be poor.

robtri

people do realise that WIT upgrading to a Uni will not solve all the problems of Waterford, it is not a magic bullet ..

you would swear its the second coming the way people go on about it.

Wanderer78

had a debate about this with a friend during the week that has put a twist in this whole argument. ive been campaigning for many years now, my friend believes this is a waste of time and money. her argument is that wit is better off to stay an IT but to become a major player in the IT business. she used the model of MIT in explaining her argument. does she have a point? i think she actually might. what do others think?

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

had a debate about this with a friend during the week that has put a twist in this whole argument. ive been campaigning for many years now, my friend believes this is a waste of time and money. her argument is that wit is better off to stay an IT but to become a major player in the IT business. she used the model of MIT in explaining her argument. does she have a point? i think she actually might. what do others think?

MIT is a university, its just not in the name.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

MIT is a university, its just not in the name.

is it really, why hasnt the name changed?

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

is it really, why hasnt the name changed?

I thought it always was a university. I dont think MIT is anything like what we would consider an Institute of technology this side of the pond.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought it always was a university. I dont think MIT is anything like what we would consider an Institute of technology this side of the pond.

my friend is actually a retired teacher, i would assume she would know these kind of things but maybe she doesnt. i ll have to look into this now. thank you.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

my friend is actually a retired teacher, i would assume she would know these kind of things but maybe she doesnt. i ll have to look into this now. thank you.

MIT is one of the top unis in the world.