Waterford University discussion

Killergreene

Waterford needs uni status for the money. It's finances are in disarray with so much going on salary. It has the potential to be a great university. Everything is in place and would attract great investment to the area.

Harry Palmr

Wanderer78 wrote: »

had a debate about this with a friend during the week that has put a twist in this whole argument. ive been campaigning for many years now, my friend believes this is a waste of time and money. her argument is that wit is better off to stay an IT but to become a major player in the IT business. she used the model of MIT in explaining her argument. does she have a point? i think she actually might. what do others think?

MIT is the ultimate third (and fourth) level tech institute, a world away from WIT currently is in every respect bar the IT bit! But the basic template is what WIT should be looking at - business studies, hard sciences, cutting technology research and development for and with major corporations. With arts and humanities as a sideline only. As for the name, MIT doesn't need the word University in it's name as MIT is MIT around the world.

From wiki

MIT was elected to the Association of American Universities in 1934 and remains a research university with a very high level of research activity;[46][158] research expenditures totaled $718.2 million in 2009.[needs update][236] The federal government was the largest source of sponsored research, with the Department of Health and Human Services granting $255.9 million, Department of Defense $97.5 million, Department of Energy $65.8 million, National Science Foundation $61.4 million, and NASA $27.4 million.[236] MIT employs approximately 1300 researchers in addition to faculty.[237] In 2011, MIT faculty and researchers disclosed 632 inventions, were issued 153 patents, earned $85.4 million in cash income, and received $69.6 million in royalties.[238] Through programs like the Deshpande Center, MIT faculty leverage their research and discoveries into multi-million-dollar commercial ventures.[239]

In electronics, magnetic core memory, radar, single electron transistors, and inertial guidance controls were invented or substantially developed by MIT researchers.[240][241] Harold Eugene Edgerton was a pioneer in high speed photography and sonar.[242][243] Claude E. Shannon developed much of modern information theory and discovered the application of Boolean logic to digital circuit design theory.[244] In the domain of computer science, MIT faculty and researchers made fundamental contributions to cybernetics, artificial intelligence, computer languages, machine learning, robotics, and cryptography.[241][245] At least nine Turing Award laureates and seven recipients of the Draper Prize in engineering have been or are currently associated with MIT.[246][247]

Current and previous physics faculty have won eight Nobel Prizes,[248] four Dirac Medals,[249] and three Wolf Prizes predominantly for their contributions to subatomic and quantum theory.[250] Members of the chemistry department have been awarded three Nobel Prizes and one Wolf Prize for the discovery of novel syntheses and methods.[248] MIT biologists have been awarded six Nobel Prizes for their contributions to genetics, immunology, oncology, and molecular biology.[248] Professor Eric Lander was one of the principal leaders of the Human Genome Project.[251][252] Positronium atoms,[253] synthetic penicillin,[254] synthetic self-replicating molecules,[255] and the genetic bases for Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (also known as ALS or Lou Gehrig's disease) and Huntington's disease were first discovered at MIT.[256] Jerome Lettvin transformed the study of cognitive science with his paper "What the frog's eye tells the frog's brain".[257]

Wanderer78

Harry Palmr wrote: »

MIT is the ultimate third (and fourth) level tech institute, a world away from WIT currently is in every respect bar the IT bit! But the basic template is what WIT should be looking at - business studies, hard sciences, cutting technology research and development for and with major corporations. With arts and humanities as a sideline only. As for the name, MIT doesn't need the word University in it's name as MIT is MIT around the world.

From wiki

thanks, id disagree to some degree there though but thats probably due to some conflicting opinions i have on large corporations, debate for another thread;)

Harry Palmr

It's where the money is - they have a vast budget, the "soft economy" lacks the ultimate resources of filthy business!

Killergreene

Mike I never had you down as a WIT fan boy!

WIT should try put more focus on the computing subjects, the graduates seem to be in high demand.

When you look at the graduation book from this year there was about 2 full pages of people graduating from business studies, are all these people really getting jobs? It was the same with social care studies. I know we need social care people but there is way more people graduating then are needed.

Wanderer78

Harry Palmr wrote: »

It's where the money is - they have a vast budget, the "soft economy" lacks the ultimate resources of filthy business!

money, now theres an interesting topic!

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

I know we need social care people but there is way more people graduating then are needed.

is that a bad thing?

Killergreene

The business school is the driving force behind the college. IT not far behind.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

is that a bad thing?

For lots of people to be graduating in a sector where there is no jobs? Yes for the people who spent 3 years getting a degree and then get no job at the end.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

For lots of people to be graduating in a sector where there is no jobs? Yes for the people who spent 3 years getting a degree and then get no job at the end.

ah id argue, our thinking on education has fundamentally changed for the worse for all sorts of reasons, i think its a debate for another thread though.

imacman

Deleted User wrote: »

WIT should try put more focus on the computing subjects, the graduates seem to be in high demand.

When you look at the graduation book from this year there was about 2 full pages of people graduating from business studies, are all these people really getting jobs? It was the same with social care studies. I know we need social care people but there is way more people graduating then are needed.

Problem with that argument is students want to do business and social studies. Actually if WIT was a business/socialstudies/agricultre/nursing college it would be completely full every year

imacman

Deleted User wrote: »

MIT is a university, its just not in the name.

I love the irony of this comment.If WIT became a technological university it would be a university in name only.

imacman

Killergreene wrote: »

Waterford needs uni status for the money. It's finances are in disarray with so much going on salary. It has the potential to be a great university. Everything is in place and would attract great investment to the area.

That would be true if WIT could become a true university like UCC or UCD. A Technological University is a lesser product and there is no guarantees that its would increase funding.

Harry Palmr

Why would a Technology University be considered a lesser version? Or is that what you reckon the arts/humanities dominated Dept of Education would think

A few days ago the first dress (!) made of graphene was unveiled, Manchester University is where this miracle material was developed and it's exactly the kind of area that WIT should be aimed at as a long term strategy.

http://www.graphene.manchester.ac.uk/collaborate/national-graphene-institute/

Harry Palmr

Killergreene wrote: »

Mike I never had you down as a WIT fan boy!

I'm not really but it could be a "great, really great thing" (to use Trumpspeak) - another re-reg eh?

imacman

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Why would a Technology University be considered a lesser version? Or is that what you reckon the arts/humanities dominated Dept of Education would think

A few days ago the first dress (!) made of graphene was unveiled, Manchester University is where this miracle material was developed and it's exactly the kind of area that WIT should be aimed at as a long term strategy.

http://www.graphene.manchester.ac.uk/collaborate/national-graphene-institute/

Just take a look at the hodge podge Technological legislation to see what it is a lesser version. It was created as a fudge because the university sector never wanted a true south east university but Phil Hogan and Brendan Howlin had it in their election manifestos in 2010.Out of this agenda the TU legislation emerged which is a dirty compromise but suited the two ministers as it brought their Carlow and Wexford constituencies into the picture as part of a merger.It had more to do with political games than education policy and the legislation is very vague and give no promises on funding increases. It actually more concerned with cost reduction by consolidation of resources.( which would create war with the unions).

Killergreene

But is there ever any hope of full university status for wit ?

Dunmoreroader

It's not about WIT and it's status per se, it's about having a fully-fledged self-governing University with it's own independent budget located in Waterford to serve the Southeast to facilitate the critical mass needed in Waterford to secure a future for the city and region as more than just a feeder for Dublin and Cork.
MIT as well as being a world-class Uni shares a very large well established city with dozens of other Universities so the comparison with WIT is facile. Boston doesn't need MIT to lead it out of the wilderness.
A more interesting comparison would be on the relative economic performances of the four regional cities; Cork, Limerick, Galway and Waterford since they each had Universities established. For Cork and Galway that would be 1845, Limerick 1972(NIHE) and Waterford.....well you know.
Any phd students looking for a subject for a thesis could do worse than to get their teeth into that one.
Anyone who says University status (for the city not the institution) doesn't matter is either ignorant or deliberately misleading because they have some agenda.

Harry Palmr

On Galway - it was a city of 37,800 in 1981, Waterford was 38,400. Then something happened, maybe University related but the "capital of the wesht" went on a body building course with the help of an almost permanent senior minister for the constituency and now has a population of 79,500 at the last count and that doesn't take into consideration the sprawl just beyond the City boundary not something that really applies to Waterford so large was the expansion of the limits back in the 80s

Stats in this country are a disgrace frankly so getting hold of accurate data for City boroughs and the like is all but impossible - county figures are said to be unreliable by the CSO themselves but gut instinct says Galway City must be 10-15% above Waterford at least.

Dunmoreroader

And still we'll have people saying "but Waterford doesn't need a University, why can't ye be happy?"
Interesting piece from UL's Ed Walsh from (hard to believe) 9 years ago when we thought we were on the cusp of attaining University status;
http://www.edwalsh.ie/university-for-waterford/
Interesting to hear Dr Walsh, a Corkman, point out the similarities in the skulduggery coming from Cork towards Limerick's Uni campaign, to Waterford's.
And the cute hoors are still queering the pitch for Waterford on all fronts from the Medical to the Academic.:rolleyes:

robtri

just think with more money and bigger budget how well more they can pay themselves and still spend less of facilities and actual teaching!!!!!!!

While i would love to see a Uni here, i think WIT be better off prioritizing sorting out its own internal mess before expanding

Max Powers

robtri wrote: »

just think with more money and bigger budget how well more they can pay themselves and still spend less of facilities and actual teaching!!!!!!!

While i would love to see a Uni here, i think WIT be better off prioritizing sorting out its own internal mess before expanding

That's nonsense to be fair, they had massive budget cuts in an environment where 90% of costs are fixed, they are one of the best ITs always and perform excellent getting good levels other funding from non government funds fir research.any other issues that happened out there are small fry compared to lack of gov't support.

azimuth17

I absolutely agree with Max Powers.WIT should be allowed progress to UNI as quickly as possible. It is far ahead of where NIHE Limerick was when it got the status. All other issues at WIT are government funding caused by close control of Dept of Education. W uni would fight its own battles.

Killergreene

it would be a great boost to the south east. they have some excellent courses down there. this government are a disgrace, I don't understand the hatred for the sunny south east. they are in a great position to push on and are miles ahead of the other ITs.

robtri

http://www.webometrics.info/en/Europe/Ireland%20
worth a look

Harry Palmr

Interesting rankings (never even heard of Dublin Institute For Advanced Studies until right now)

CatFromHue

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

And still we'll have people saying "but Waterford doesn't need a University, why can't ye be happy?"
Interesting piece from UL's Ed Walsh from (hard to believe) 9 years ago when we thought we were on the cusp of attaining University status;
http://www.edwalsh.ie/university-for-waterford/
Interesting to hear Dr Walsh, a Corkman, point out the similarities in the skulduggery coming from Cork towards Limerick's Uni campaign, to Waterford's.
And the cute hoors are still queering the pitch for Waterford on all fronts from the Medical to the Academic.:rolleyes:

I read his book about setting up and his life UL. It's a very good read and was a pretty difficult thing to do as he faced opposition from pretty much everyone, incl many other third level institutions if not all universities.

It should also be noted that when he was tasked with setting up a uni in Limerick he thought it strange as he thought Kilkenny and the South East needed one more than the mid West!

If you look through the rest of his articles, or jest hear him on the radio when he's on, he's spot on on everything he writes or talks about.

gw80

I was in a thread over in the limerick forum a while back, it was about how quiet limerick city was after 6pm and i was talking about similarities with waterford city having same issues, then one guy came in and mentioned the impact getting university status has been the "lifeblood" of the city.

I cant post links so could someone put the post up on this thread please, i think it is very relevant to this thread,
Its under the thread title " Limerick after 6pm" thread, post #46. Thanks

Johnboy1951

gw80 wrote: »

I was in a thread over in the limerick forum a while back, it was about how quiet limerick city was after 6pm and i was talking about similarities with waterford city having same issues, then one guy came in and mentioned the impact getting university status has been the "lifeblood" of the city.

I cant post links so could someone put the post up on this thread please, i think it is very relevant to this thread,
Its under the thread title " Limerick after 6pm" thread, post #46. Thanks

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=100755611&postcount=46