Waterford University discussion

Johnboy1951

reni10 wrote: »

What about this 2040 Gov Consultation announced today?

They are talking about Dublin getting too congested and basically everything in the country stemming from there and they just will not have the infrastructure to support it so surely something like a University in the South East so that more people from the South East can access a Uni in their own back yard instead of going to Dublin should be called out very strongly in this consultation?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dublin-is-eating-into-ireland-and-government-is-not-geared-to-combat-growth-right-now-35418203.html

It should ........ but ......

From what I read it seems mostly to centre on infrastructure like motorways, housing etc ........ another building bubble?

The 'one-off' housing should take a big hit though if this gets any traction.

BBM77

reni10 wrote: »

What about this 2040 Gov Consultation announced today?

They are talking about Dublin getting too congested and basically everything in the country stemming from there and they just will not have the infrastructure to support it so surely something like a University in the South East so that more people from the South East can access a Uni in their own back yard instead of going to Dublin should be called out very strongly in this consultation?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dublin-is-eating-into-ireland-and-government-is-not-geared-to-combat-growth-right-now-35418203.html

I don’t mean to be negative but this is just political crap. If you were really serious about counteracting the growth of Dublin the first thing you would do is upgrade WIT to a full university. Even if that was at the expense of one of the smaller universities in the Dublin area.

invara

The new national spatial strategy is Covney's love letter to the regions before his long hoped for elevation. The normal politics of this country means that feudal, territorial ministers look after their own minor scraps of land- with huge social costs to the rest of the country. The NSS only has downsides for the region - the SE could have been merged or disbanded; but do not expect upsides. So we did little more than dodge a bullet. Money flows to minsters home patches.

road_high

invara wrote: »

The new national spatial strategy is Covney's love letter to the regions before his long hoped for elevation. The normal politics of this country means that feudal, territorial ministers look after their own minor scraps of land- with huge social costs to the rest of the country. The NSS only has downsides for the region - the SE could have been merged or disbanded; but do not expect upsides. So we did little more than dodge a bullet. Money flows to minsters home patches.

It's a hugely anti-Dublin and anti-Leinster tone. And quite offensive to parts of the east and midlands where growth and employment are some of the worst performing in the state, but for the relative closeness of Dublin there'd be nothing there at all.
Definitely a political position against Dublin based Leo Varadkar.
Cork would be the definite priority here, read something today already he said that "Waterford would have to double in size to justify a University"...which is hardly very encouraging when you hear a Cork man say that.

robtri

Deiseen wrote: »

As people have said, those facts don't necessarily paint the full picture for Limerick. I've lived there and the industry that they have there is phenomenal and the level of development simply blows Waterford away. If you want to deny the facts coming from people who have spent time there then that's your choice.

what facts??
please show me where in the thread facts have been presented?

i will say hearsay is not fact...

azimuth17

Maybe if you just looked at the map of Limerick city Robtri and noted the amount of development and developed land that lies outside that boundary, including the university, it might help you understand. In contrast, there is almost no development outside the city boundary in Waterford other than Tramore I suppose?

robtri

azimuth17 wrote: »

Maybe if you just looked at the map of Limerick city Robtri and noted the amount of development and developed land that lies outside that boundary, including the university, it might help you understand. In contrast, there is almost no development outside the city boundary in Waterford other than Tramore I suppose?

so we cant compare city boundaries in terms of unemployment or other issues but we can use city boundary comparisons for your point?
again can u show facts , comparison data or industry/cso data something like that that supports your point..

Harry Palmr

azimuth17 wrote: »

Maybe if you just looked at the map of Limerick city Robtri and noted the amount of development and developed land that lies outside that boundary, including the university, it might help you understand. In contrast, there is almost no development outside the city boundary in Waterford other than Tramore I suppose?

Why would there be - the boundary is fecking huge. 38.35 sq kms so 10 bigger than Limerick City

azimuth17

I am reasonably familiar with Limerick city and from being there many times i firmly believe that the city has developed far in advance of Waterford and that the university in my humble opinion is perhaps the driver of that. If you google limerick city, a map comes up showing the city in pink. Apologies because I see the point I was trying to make is not clear. The map does not show the huge level of development in the Ballysheedy,Groody, Castletroy area and Annacotty side of the city,(all on the M7 east side of the city. There is similar development on the Patrickswell side of the city( M20, on west of Limerick).A comparison of the google map with the google earth image will show the development I mean. The impact of the university on the Castletroy area is immense with massive student housing and retail. Sorry if I am not making my point very week Robtri, but I believe university designation is essential for a level playing field if for no other reason.

O Riain

azimuth17 wrote: »

I am reasonably familiar with Limerick city and from being there many times i firmly believe that the city has developed far in advance of Waterford and that the university in my humble opinion is perhaps the driver of that. If you google limerick city, a map comes up showing the city in pink. Apologies because I see the point I was trying to make is not clear. The map does not show the huge level of development in the Ballysheedy,Groody, Castletroy area and Annacotty side of the city,(all on the M7 east side of the city. There is similar development on the Patrickswell side of the city( M20, on west of Limerick).A comparison of the google map with the google earth image will show the development I mean. The impact of the university on the Castletroy area is immense with massive student housing and retail. Sorry if I am not making my point very week Robtri, but I believe university designation is essential for a level playing field if for no other reason.

You are making it clear but people just do not want to believe what is in front of them.  
People also say that the university is not the silver bullet that we need. Do they realise the difficulty that companies have here trying trying to find skilled workers? Yes, this is an issue in all parts of the country, but I am sure Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway have an easier time finding skilled workers due to all of our best and brightest leaving to go to University in these places. A company will have huge reservations about setting up in a place that hasn't access to a high number of skilled workers.
Do you understand that?  Our best and brightest leave and they do not come back.

azimuth17

The Higher Education Authority (HEA) publication from 2014, "Institutional Profiles" shows in small way the impact of UL. If details 12,500 students and 1400 academic staff. Of itself, this provides a huge and stable impetus to the Limerick economy. Its worth a look.

www.hea.ie/en/news/hea-publishes-detailed-profiles-higher-education-institutions

imacman

O Riain wrote: »

You are making it clear but people just do not want to believe what is in front of them.  
People also say that the university is not the silver bullet that we need. Do they realise the difficulty that companies have here trying trying to find skilled workers? Yes, this is an issue in all parts of the country, but I am sure Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway have an easier time finding skilled workers due to all of our best and brightest leaving to go to University in these places. A company will have huge reservations about setting up in a place that hasn't access to a high number of skilled workers.
Do you understand that?  Our best and brightest leave and they do not come back.

All these demographics, stats and nashing of teeth is all well and good but the bottom line is the South east in never going to get a full university on a par with the other Universities in Ireland because the other universities dont want it to happen.The university sector has massive political influence and they have been a roadblock to process over the last 30 years.

azimuth17

A not unreasonable suggestion given the history of the project, but no reason to give up either. Fight or die in economic and social terms.

O Riain

imacman wrote: »

O Riain wrote: »

You are making it clear but people just do not want to believe what is in front of them.  
People also say that the university is not the silver bullet that we need. Do they realise the difficulty that companies have here trying trying to find skilled workers? Yes, this is an issue in all parts of the country, but I am sure Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway have an easier time finding skilled workers due to all of our best and brightest leaving to go to University in these places. A company will have huge reservations about setting up in a place that hasn't access to a high number of skilled workers.
Do you understand that?  Our best and brightest leave and they do not come back.

All these demographics, stats and nashing of teeth is all well and good but the bottom line is the South east in never going to get a full university on a par with the other Universities in Ireland  because the other universities dont want it to happen.The university sector has massive political influence and they have been a roadblock to process over the last 30 years.

I think everybody understands this, it will be a cold day in hell before Waterford is put on a level pegging as the rest of the country. But we must still demand an improvement to the current situation. It doesn't have to be Trinity College but it must still be a substantial improvement.

imacman

O Riain wrote: »

I think everybody understands this, it will be a cold day in hell before Waterford is put on a level pegging as the rest of the country. But we must still demand an improvement to the current situation. It doesn't have to be Trinity College but it must still be a substantial improvement.

I agree that Waterford needs to keep trying to improve its situation but a properly funded and supported WIT is more important than a yellow pack Technological University rebranding exercise.

azimuth17

That is selfevidently true and one would hope that proper funding for WIT would be implicit in any elevation to Tech Uni status. The government and the HEA could not afford to have an Irish university level institution, even if "only" a Tech Uni, perceived as "yellow pack" although both UL and DCU suffered, and still suffer from a certain amount of that. It takes time to establish a reputation especially in higher education. There are still people in UK who regard everyplace otehr than Oxford and Cambridge as heathen latecomers.

O Riain

imacman wrote: »

O Riain wrote: »

I think everybody understands this, it will be a cold day in hell before Waterford is put on a level pegging as the rest of the country. But we must still demand an improvement to the current situation. It doesn't have to be Trinity College but it must still be a substantial improvement.

I agree that Waterford needs to keep trying to improve its situation but a properly funded and supported WIT is more important than a yellow pack Technological University rebranding exercise.

Well we need to make sure we get more than a than a re-branded yellow pack Technological University don't we?
If people are happy with an Institute of technology then they need to understand the difference in funding between an I.T. (even a top level one ) and a University, because it is massive.

azimuth17

Budget for UCC in 2013 were €273 m for 18,666 students and 2391 staff members. Cost per FTE student €10,824.

WIT €81 m for 8240 (6837 full time and 1403 part time) students and 899 (750 core and 149 part time and specialist) staff members. Cost per FTE student €8,013.

All data from HEA.

Killergreene

What does yellow pack mean.

Wanderer78

Killergreene wrote: »

What does yellow pack mean.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Pack

this is where it comes from, i.e. budget products!

imacman

Its amazing the way politicians can say so much and actually say nothing
https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2017-02-09a.216
To summarize Technological Universities Bill = on ice and on the shelf

invara

Remember FG promised to upgrade WIT to full university. Enda Kenny and Brian Hayes ridiculed FF over their inaction (Port/Hunt). Almost a decade since their first full fat promise and in their sixth year in power they are waiting to go out of office.

JaCrispy

imacman wrote: »

Interesting statement from Sinn Fein TD on the TU for the south east .
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/43646
No mention of Carlow anywhere

"Today I am engaging with stakeholders across the region and will be holding meetings with the Presidents and Executive bodies of both institutes.”

:rolleyes:

Deiseen

JaCrispy wrote: »

imacman wrote: »

Interesting statement from Sinn Fein TD on the TU for the south east .
http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/43646
No mention of Carlow anywhere

"Today I am engaging with stakeholders across the region and will be  holding meetings with the Presidents and Executive bodies of both  institutes.”

:rolleyes:

Nice to see the Carlow/Kilkenny TDs spearheading the search for a Uni for the SE.

JaCrispy

Deiseen wrote: »

Nice to see the Carlow/Kilkenny TDs spearheading the search for a Uni for the SE.

You're right, no postulating populist soundbites from the Carlow/Kilkenny TDs.

Deiseen

JaCrispy wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Nice to see the Carlow/Kilkenny TDs spearheading the search for a Uni for the SE.

You're right, no postulating populist soundbites from the Carlow/Kilkenny TDs.

Ah OK, so they must be working hard behind the scenes to make this a reality. You seem to be in the know, care to fill all of us in?

road_high

Deiseen wrote: »

Nice to see the Carlow/Kilkenny TDs spearheading the search for a Uni for the SE.

And the old obsession of course continues in this thread...we want we want we want...but we don't want you to benefit or have any input bar support "us" ie. Waterford in this aim. Yea, IT Carlow are really going to bend over to Waterford (approx 1/5th of the SE population) and be an outpost of Waterford Uni (i.e. be a feeder for the students because we don't have enough to justify one on our own). Dream on!
Who knew Davy Cullenane could even read/write? His mammy/Gerry Adams must have given him a little hand to write this rubbish.

Deiseen

road_high wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Nice to see the Carlow/Kilkenny TDs spearheading the search for a Uni for the SE.

And the old obsession of course continues in this thread...we want we want we want...but we don't want you to benefit or have any input bar support "us" ie. Waterford in this aim. Yea, IT Carlow are really going to bend over to Waterford (approx 1/5th of the SE population) and be an outpost of Waterford Uni (i.e. be a feeder for the students because we don't have enough to justify one on our own). Dream on!
Who knew Davy Cullenane could even read/write? His mammy/Gerry Adams must have given him a little had to write this rubbish.

Jesus wept, you are some troll. Can you not just stay on the Kilkenny board and do all your bitching n moaning about Waterford up there?

road_high

Deiseen wrote: »

Jesus wept, you are some troll. Can you not just stay on the Kilkenny board and do all your bitching n moaning about Waterford up there?

Lol, as long as it's a free country (probably the opposite to what the likes of Cullenane with his communist/Marxist dogma would like, and which clearly goes down a treat here) I'll post what and wherever I like really. Just because people have a regional narrative you can't bare to hear, it certainly won't deter me from putting forward my views. The fact that it ires you so much just proves my point/s.

"Bitching and moaning" gosh get over yourself. But it's AOK to belittle, moan and whine about the other 3 counties 24/7 here of course. That's not "Bitching and Moaning" at all....
I'd gladly not discuss Waterford but seen as you lot drag Carlow and Kilkenny into every single detail and thread/discussion...no one in Kilkenny or Carlow would be particularly interested.

Deiseen

road_high wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Jesus wept, you are some troll. Can you not just stay on the Kilkenny board and do all your bitching n moaning about Waterford up there?

Lol, as long as it's a free country (probably the opposite to what the likes of Cullenane with his communist/Marxist dogma would like, and which clearly goes down a treat here) I'll post what and wherever I like really. Just because people have a regional narrative you can't bare to hear, it certainly won't deter me from putting forward my views. The fact that it ires you so much just proves my point/s.

"Bitching and moaning" gosh get over yourself. But it's AOK to belittle, moan and whine about the other 3 counties 24/7 here of course. That's not "Bitching and Moaning" at all....
I'd gladly not discuss Waterford but seen as you lot drag Carlow and Kilkenny into every single detail and thread/discussion...no one in Kilkenny or Carlow would be particularly interested.

It's a free country BUT if I felt compelled to go onto the Kilkenny board and carry on the way you do then I would feel pretty sorry for myself.
What the Kilkenny lads say on their board could not make a single difference to me, let them to it. The fact that you are down here, day after day after day, trying to push your agenda just reflects poorly on you.