Waterford University discussion

An_Toirpin

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Muttley79 wrote: »

Prof willie donnelly president of wit hopes to make a submission by September for both Waterford-Carlow to combine,what a complete blow this is for Waterford as a university in the south east,once again Waterford has been pissed on and once again our local politicians have disappeared over another huge issue to Waterford.carlow does not deserve to be anywhere near getting a status like this

Why do you think this would be a bad thing? Surely a bigger third level institution would have a better chance of becoming a uni? I really haven't being following this debate, so forgive my ignorance.

Maybe size will give it poltical clout but there is not relationship between size and sucess overall. Universities can be big or small, size doesnt make a university. To make a university you need stricter admissions, more courses and more funding.

imacman

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Why do you think this would be a bad thing? Surely a bigger third level institution would have a better chance of becoming a uni? I really haven't being following this debate, so forgive my ignorance.

Just read the last 30 pages of this thread to see why the TU is a bad thing in this case.The concept of a TU might make sense and be successful in other parts of the country but in the south east WIT will be bound to a toxic partner in ITcarlow who are just interested in taking over the process and being the big dog even though they are the smaller organisation .And the have the politicans on their side too

JupiterKid

Waterford needs a full university. End of story.

An_Toirpin

JupiterKid wrote: »

Waterford needs a full university. End of story.

But it won't happen as the establishment insists on free university, which is unaffordable. The existing universities are at breaking point. Allow tuituion fees and a high quality university in Waterford would pay for itself.

Wanderer78

An_Toirpin wrote:

But it won't happen as the establishment insists on free university, which is unaffordable. The existing universities are at breaking point. Allow tuituion fees and a high quality university in Waterford would pay for itself.

'free', Orwell was well ahead of his time!

Wanderer78

An_Toirpin wrote:

But it won't happen as the establishment insists on free university, which is unaffordable. The existing universities are at breaking point. Allow tuituion fees and a high quality university in Waterford would pay for itself.

'free', Orwell was well ahead of his time!

An_Toirpin

Well as you say they are not really free but they have no control of the price and they should be able to control it.

Wanderer78

An_Toirpin wrote: »

Well as you say they are not really free but they have no control of the price and they should be able to control it.

if i had my way, they d all be completely free, but shur that ll probably never happen

invara

The political alacados in the region are pushing hard for their  'no-money-down' merger. They want an application (on the back of envelope) ready for September.
Meanwhile, the slew of university big money plans keep popping up (Trinity just announced a €1bn investment plan), we are just getting the name change. The head of the HEA quit today, allegedly over political interference. The Government might be gone once the budget is done.
So what are the odds of Waterford still having a seat of learning after Christmas? Will the region's ambition and need to have a full university be squashed by the merger. Will Carlow- the smaller and academically closer to the old RTC model hold the whip hand in a merger. Will the new institution be HQ'd from Carlow. Will WIT management that has strived for a university since 2005's application be crushed any further in this process?  
Any thoughts, comments, and provocations from the braintrust of boards.ie.....

Johnboy1951

Without corporate investment on a large scale I doubt there will be any good news for a local uni.

I think it a shame that our 'seats of learning' get funded (in any way) by commercial interests.

imacman

Interesting Pieces on the TU in the Waterford News and Star. It good to see that at least one politician can see whats going on with the TU
http://www.imagebam.com/image/2621f9958421694

Deiseen

imacman wrote: »

Interesting Pieces on the TU in the Waterford News and Star. It good to see that at least one politician can see whats going on with the TU
http://www.imagebam.com/image/2621f9958421694

Its worrying that the only politician that sees what's going on, doesn't actually know what's going on. That's no fault of Eddie's but it's all too quiet!!

RYGCat

imacman wrote: »

Interesting Pieces on the TU in the Waterford News and Star. It good to see that at least one politician can see whats going on with the TU
http://www.imagebam.com/image/2621f9958421694

Interesting to see the rest of that page referencing the ongoing 'spin-out' issue.

http://www.imagebam.com/image/9093a2960040134

azimuth17

The real money while WIT was destroyed.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/trinity-college-plans-to-spend-170-000-on-wine-1.3611712

invara

All quiet here, which is surprising because ITCarlow and WIT are going to submit a proposal to merge at the end of the month.

No decision on HQ means they cannot agree on anything substantive, and that any TU is going to be an unproductive dogfight between these two proud institutions. No additional funding, capacity, buildings, programmes. Nothing has been put on the table to make this a progressive development.

imacman

TUI did a ballot this week in ITCarlow and WIT for non-cooperation with any merger activities because of lack of consultation on the TU submission .It passed in a landslide in both institutes

imacman

Some great stories in the Waterford news and Star about the TU debacle as they call it.They are not online yet so I cant link them but headlines include "Road to nowhere" and "Merger Hangs in the Balance".

Its good to see the negative aspects of this merger getting some print and maybe people of Waterford will start to cotton on how another humiliation is on the cards as Carlow/Kilkenny Politicians push for the headquarters to be based there rather than in Waterford .This is similar to the Cat lab scandal and the hospital downgrade , another two fingers to the Waterford .

invara

Just read the News and Star. The road to nowhere article traces the huge number of reports and investigations about getting a university in Waterford and all the failed opportunities to get this issue sorted. It is unbelievable the wasted money on working out the Waterford/SE needs a university (duh)- Skillberk, Goodbodies, WIT university application, Port, Farquar ... etc... etc... and then the crazy number of reports into the WIT management who led the university campaign (deloittex2, Quigley, Cox, Mazars, Kelly, etc.....), and guided WIT to being the best IoT. The story shows the pattern of optimism a decade ago, and the systematic destruction of WIT leadership in the hope of killing off the university ambition.

The merger story shows that the forces against the region might have won.

Bards

I said it at one of the meetings over a decade ago when we were on the verge of attaining University Status after the Port report that what needed to be done was put up a sign stating Waterford University College...aka what CWRT did when the then WRTC became WIT..

And I said failure to strike while the iron was hot would result in us still discussing the topic a decade later...

Makes me angry thinking about it

imacman

Bards wrote: »

I said it at one of the meetings over a decade ago when we were on the verge of attaining University Status after the Port report that what needed to be done was put up a sign stating Waterford University College...aka what CWRT did when the then WRTC became WIT..

And I said failure to strike while the iron was hot would result in us still discussing the topic a decade later...

Makes me angry thinking about it

Well you should be even more angry about the fact that WIT is about to be sidelined with this TU bid as "our betters" up in Carlow take over the leadership and HQ of the TU with political backing. 50 years of an independent and proud college in Waterford will disappear forever.

imacman

This stuff is really annoying
https://www.beat102103.com/news/three-institute-of-technologies-facing-financial-black-holes-as-it-emerges-they-are-millions-in-debt/

This is old news and was already addressed at the PAC 18 months ago. The budget deficit mentioned is based one a 2016 figure and by the sounds of the report WIT is only starting a 3 year plan instead of coming to the end of year two of the plan with an increase of student numbers over those two years. To me this is the politicians grand standing as ever on the PAC resulting in the damaging of WIT's reputation going into the real negotiations in the TU process.Meanwhile on the same day Leo is in Carlow gushing about how brilliant they are and making pointed comments about WIT delaying the TU process.The political humiliation of WIT and in turn the people of Waterford continues

imacman

imacman wrote: »

This stuff is really annoying
https://www.beat102103.com/news/three-institute-of-technologies-facing-financial-black-holes-as-it-emerges-they-are-millions-in-debt/

This is old news and was already addressed at the PAC 18 months ago. The budget deficit mentioned is based one a 2016 figure and by the sounds of the report WIT is only starting a 3 year plan instead of coming to the end of year two of the plan with an increase of student numbers over those two years. To me this is the politicians grand standing as ever on the PAC resulting in the damaging of WIT's reputation going into the real negotiations in the TU process.Meanwhile on the same day Leo is in Carlow gushing about how brilliant they are and making pointed comments about WIT delaying the TU process.The political humiliation of WIT and in turn the people of Waterford continues

The departments solution for this is to recruit more students to get more funding but to do this with degrading facilities and equipment because of zero investment in the last 10 years. .

invara

Ugly talk on WLR news at one today- with Willie Donnelly WIT President and David Cullinane TD going at each other.

engiweirdo

invara wrote: »

Ugly talk on WLR news at one today- with Willie Donnelly WIT President and David Cullinane TD going at each other.

???? What was said so? Lemme guess, Willie though whatever the governments position is, is a great idea and THE only possible solution and the other guy disapproved. Is that the general gist?

invara

No, a good deal uglier than that. Willie asked David to stop attacking WIT, in what came across as an emotionally stressed tone. It relates to the investigation instigated from the public accounts committee hearings into spin-out companies. The Government are sitting on (yet another) report into WIT- this time spin-out companies. All the prior reports failed to find any wrong-doing.

This is really unhelpful against the backdrop of WIT being pushed into a merger that it cannot see any value for the SE in. At a time when WIT should be articulating its vision for higher education (built around degree education, research and academic excellence at a scale that can support the region), our leadership has been silenced by this investigation. Meanwhile, Leo visits IT Carlow to pat them on the back for being super at level 6 flexible learning programmes. If we lose this argument, we will continue to lose half of all the region's leaving certificate students to Dublin/Cork and Limerick, and bake in the region's relative economic poverty for another generation.

imacman

So now the dept of education is openly funding LIT and AIT to move to become standalone no merger TU's. What a kick in the teeth for WIT and the other IT's being forced into mergers.Shows how completely political the TU process is .
https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/341936/limerick-it-awarded-funding-to-work-towards-technological-university-status.html
http://www.advertiser.ie/athlone/article/103726

Harry Palmr

David Cullinan was on Deise AM but only caught the last moment. Might be worth listening back to later if they podcast.

Edit don't bother it was just a few comments at the end of an interview. Nothing of substance.

Max Powers

imacman wrote: »

So now the dept of education is openly funding LIT and AIT to move to become standalone no merger TU's. What a kick in the teeth for WIT and the other IT's being forced into mergers.Shows how completely political the TU process is .
https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/341936/limerick-it-awarded-funding-to-work-towards-technological-university-status.html
http://www.advertiser.ie/athlone/article/103726

That certainly looks like a complete turnaround and totally disingenuous moving of the goalposts. Thought this was all about consolidation, getting scale, etc

imacman

I see it reported in the News and Star that reports are emanating from Carlow that a new 25,000 square foot 3 story building to house the TUSE headquarters is going to tender.I checked the out etenders and found it
https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=136585&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders
The paper says if this is true its the greatest betrayal of Waterford in its history, i agree its another kick for Waterford and we shouldn't take it lying down .Pity we have such weak politicians who are unwilling or unable to fight for us

Deiseen

imacman wrote: »

I see it reported in the News and Star that reports are emanating from Carlow that a new 25,000 square foot 3 story building to house the TUSE headquarters is going to tender.I checked the out etenders and found it
https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=136585&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders
The paper says if this is true its the greatest betrayal of Waterford in its history, i agree its another kick for Waterford and we shouldn't take it lying down .Pity we have such weak politicians who are unwilling or unable to fight for us

This is just unbelievable. How come all our politicians are so in the dark on this?