Waterford University discussion

Christy Browne

engiweirdo wrote: »

Grand so. Try the same thing again. See if it works out different THIS time.

Suggest somebody so?

engiweirdo

Christy Browne wrote: »

engiweirdo wrote: »

Grand so. Try the same thing again. See if it works out different THIS time.

Suggest somebody so?

Why? You already have your mind up sure. Probably a badge wearing supporter.

Ireland where the level of political standard to be attained is "not as bad those guys".

Deiseen

imacman wrote: »

engiweirdo wrote: »

Grand so. Try the same thing again. See if it works out different THIS time.

Waterford hasn't had a politician with any clout since Martin Cullen , it's sad to think that education considerations don't come into the TU process and its a purely a political game .To rub salt in the wounds AIT and LIT have got funding from the dept last week to start moving towards a TU with no mention of mergers.Boxer Moran has been pushing for that for the last year as AIT is in his constituency.So we will be left in a toxic abusive merger with Carlow while those other ITs drive on alone

Why cant WIT and ITC go it alone then.

imacman

Deiseen wrote: »

Why cant WIT and ITC go it alone then.

Again this is political, an independent academic from Bangor university did a report in 2014 about the feasibility of the TU in the south east and he actually recommended that WIT would be quicker to go it alone for TU status. The report was rubbished and pushed under the carpet by the politicians as the agenda was for Carlow to be involved in the TU project as they had no chance reaching the status alone . Now we are too down that road to change as if even WIT tried to go it alone Carlow would be sidelined and the political pressure would be too much for that to happen. So we now have a TU project been dominated by Carlow with the Chairman of the WIT governing body on their side along the all the political power.
Added to this we have the strongest politician in the Waterford David Cullinane attacking and damaging WITs reputation at the PAC.All this leads to WIT been emasculated and humiliated and becoming vassals of their "betters" in Carlow .

Max Powers

Deiseen wrote: »

Why cant WIT and ITC go it alone then.

I'm guessing, if they left now, knives would be out even more for WIT, any hope of investment would be gone, not that there is any actually happening now at this moment. It would be easy for david cullinane to be giving out about this but he has gone against the populist position and supports it, is this because he thinks not engaging would be even worse than a merger?At some stage, when all cards on table, they'll have to see if this could actually be positive or negative, how it will work out in reality for WIT/Waterford and region and stick or twist. If we get a tech uni but lose 15% of staff, courses, resources, funding or control, is there any benefits to be had? No govt political clout at all is as usual our problem. It's a mess, still loads to be resolved I'd guess.

Bards

Max Powers wrote: »

Deiseen wrote: »

Why cant WIT and ITC go it alone then.

I'm guessing, if they left now, knives would be out even more for WIT, any hope of investment would be gone, not that there is any actually happening now at this moment. It would be easy for david cullinane to be giving out about this but he has gone against the populist position and supports it, is this because he thinks not engaging would be even worse than a merger?At some stage, when all cards on table, they'll have to see if this could actually be positive or negative, how it will work out in reality for WIT/Waterford and region and stick or twist. If we get a tech uni but lose 15% of staff, courses, resources, funding or control, is there any benefits to be had? No govt political clout at all is as usual our problem. It's a mess, still loads to be resolved I'd guess.

Of this goes ahead and HQ is not in WIT then expect WIT to be asset stripped of all it's best courses to campuses in other counties in the SE

Christy Browne

engiweirdo wrote: »

Why? You already have your mind up sure. Probably a badge wearing supporter.

Ireland where the level of political standard to be attained is "not as bad those guys".

So you can’t suggest a single good candidate is what you’re saying. All fart and no sh*t.

dzilla

Christy Browne wrote: »

So you can’t suggest a single good candidate is what you’re saying. All fart and no sh*t.

Charming

engiweirdo

Christy Browne wrote: »

engiweirdo wrote: »

Why? You already have your mind up sure. Probably a badge wearing supporter.

Ireland where the level of political standard to be attained is "not as bad those guys".

So you can’t suggest a single good candidate is what you’re saying. All fart and no sh*t.

Admit it, you still have a little Bertie picture beside the pope and Sacred Heart in the house. One of the dribbling messes who ticked who ticked Mary Butler/John Deasy's boxes knowing full well they were both useless sacks of ****e because "shur who else is there?"

Christy Browne

engiweirdo wrote: »

Admit it, you still have a little Bertie picture beside the pope and Sacred Heart in the house. One of the dribbling messes who ticked who ticked Mary Butler/John Deasy's boxes knowing full well they were both useless sacks of ****e because "shur who else is there?"

I don’t have love for any political party I just don’t think you should be blowing smoke up people’s arses saying everything would be grand if we just voted for “the others” (that you were unable to name by the way). They’re all as useless as each other.

There is no easy political solution to Waterford’s criminal underfunding, if there was people would vote for it.

engiweirdo

Christy Browne wrote: »

engiweirdo wrote: »

Admit it, you still have a little Bertie picture beside the pope and Sacred Heart in the house. One of the dribbling messes who ticked who ticked Mary Butler/John Deasy's boxes knowing full well they were both useless sacks of ****e because "shur who else is there?"

I don’t have love for any political party I just don’t think you should be blowing smoke up people’s arses saying everything would be grand if we just voted for “the others” (that you were unable to name by the way). They’re all as useless as each other.

There is no easy political solution to Waterford’s criminal underfunding, if there was people would vote for it.

I just think it's an insane policy to keep voting for these people who can't help but feel they have a divine right to a seat such is the level of blind support.

Whatever about Deasy, maybe rural voters were just used to his face, but Mary Butler was a baffling decision. Nobody had a clue who she was, no track record, no glistening CV, certainly not there on merit but elected on the back of having those 2 heinous "FF" letters attached to her ticket. Absolutely mindless stuff.

If we gave them even one term, both main parties, without a single seat in Waterford it might MIGHT make them stop and at least notice. Instead of consistently just rolling over, letting them have their "entitlement" to seats in the hope they might throw us the odd crumb.

imacman

Nice to see someone calling out the emperor has no clothes Hunt Report/ TU merger agenda https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/345081/limerick-it-president-challenges-the-current-blueprint-for-third-level-education.html

engiweirdo

imacman wrote: »

Nice to see someone calling out the emperor has no clothes Hunt Report/ TU merger agenda https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/345081/limerick-it-president-challenges-the-current-blueprint-for-third-level-education.html

What are the correlating employment statistics for WIT graduates please?

imacman

Great to see WIT as the top Institute of Technology in the Sunday Times good university guide ahead of DIT and even Maynooth University finishing 7th. Meanwhile the self styled "best IT in the country" ITcarlow could only finish 18th second from bottom.Hopefully this stems some of their arrogance.

engiweirdo

engiweirdo wrote: »

imacman wrote: »

Nice to see someone calling out the emperor has no clothes Hunt Report/ TU merger agenda https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/345081/limerick-it-president-challenges-the-current-blueprint-for-third-level-education.html

What are the correlating employment statistics for WIT graduates please?

Musn't be particulary worth publishing so....

invara

The HEA does not report on IoT first directions and so unlike the universities, we do not have comparable data. From this year on I think they will start to collect and publish that data. Internal work suggests the WIT numbers are similar to the university sector with around 3-4% seeking work (unemployed) six months after graduating- that is close to the natural or frictional rate of unemployment.

The trouble with first directions is that they do not take into account income, expectations and graduate's happiness and satisfaction with their work, career and employability. Sure across Ireland people are working, graduates even in the height of the recession were finding work, but was it good, life fulfilling work, where they wished to live, work that fitted people's ambition..... Alas the first directions methodology used by the HEA does little on this.

invara

IT Carlow graduation ceremony...... I could not detect a single doctorate graduating. It would be interesting to see the booklet to see if the suggestion that their student population was larger than WIT is born out by outcomes.

The press release suggests 1,200 graduates (which would peg ITCarlow student numbers at around 3.5k-4.2k). The press release speaks vaguely of growing post-grad numbers. If this is anything to go by- https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/news/258241277/huge-turnout-for-irish-military-graduation-in-carlow the army were dragged in to bulk things up- 200 L7 graduates from the defense forces- hardly the harbinger of an economic transformation for the region.

azimuth17

Sunday Times yesterday had WIT as first of ITs and 7th of Irish third level institutions overall, with 6064 undergraduates and 437 postgraduates. Carlow is said to have 3826 undergrads and 698 postgrads although what they are studying is moot given that Cork IT has 424 postgraduates, GMIT 350 and DIT (now described as TU Dublin) 1024. I understand that PhD participation in WIT is vastly ahead of Carlow. The inclusion of the army in the Carlow figures is really suspect. Carlow IT is an order of magnitude behind WIT in most things AFAIK.

imacman

WIT graduated 50% of the phds that graduated from ITs this year, that speaks for itself. Its well known in third level community that Carlow have been embellishing their numbers for the last number of years , its actually embarrassing as they seem to be trying to pull numbers from everywhere to surpass WIT.I have heard they are counting 1 semester international students, the army students and certain part time students as full time undergraduate students

cactus jacks

I came across this earlier:


https://www.rte.ie/archives/collections/news/21210835-waterford-chamber-wants-university/



And the wait goes on.

Harry Palmr

cactus jacks wrote: »

I came across this earlier

https://www.rte.ie/archives/collections/news/21210835-waterford-chamber-wants-university/

Well found! I'd not be shocked if everyone in that report is dead.

Johnboy1951

So they are responsible for driving the SE into a 'Technical University' as as is happening now!

I guess the financial crises of the late 80s put an end to that idea.

Thanks for the link 'cactus jacks'

Bards

33 years in the making... Yet other less deserving but more politicaly favoured RTC's (now IT's) have attained or will attaining University Status before Waterford.

...and they wonder why we whinge

BBM77

cactus jacks wrote: »

I came across this earlier:


https://www.rte.ie/archives/collections/news/21210835-waterford-chamber-wants-university/



And the wait goes on.

We have been waiting longer than 1985. The need for a university in Waterford has been highlighted as early as the 1930's.

Dunmoreroader

You can go back further; the creation of the Queen's University 1845 with constituent colleges in Cork, Galway and Belfast but not Waterford , Limerick or Derry. How did Galway get a Uni back then and not Waterford given their respective status' at that time?

mart 23

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

You can go back further; the creation of the Queen's University 1845 with constituent colleges in Cork, Galway and Belfast but not Waterford , Limerick or Derry. How did Galway get a Uni back then and not Waterford given their respective status' at that time?

They were allocated one to each Province and centres of population at the time.

Dunmoreroader

mart 23 wrote: »

They were allocated one to each Province and centres of population at the time.

Population 1841 Census:

Waterford: 23,216
Galway: 17,275

(Source: Wikipedia)

The use of our anachronistic provincial boundaries has always been to the detriment of Waterford and the Southeast. Waterford was streets ahead of Galway in strategic terms at that time. Now look at the role reversal. UCG/NUIG has been instrumental in getting Galway where it is now, that and a large loyal hinterland voting for pols who have brought the bacon home; Michael D, Geoghegan Quinn, Bobby Molloy.
Plus they're too far away to have their lunch eaten by Cork or Dublin - unlike Waterford. Even Carlow now thinks it can eat Waterford's lunch. :rolleyes:

imacman

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Population 1841 Census:

Waterford: 23,216
Galway: 17,275

(Source: Wikipedia)

The use of our anachronistic provincial boundaries has always been to the detriment of Waterford and the Southeast. Waterford was streets ahead of Galway in strategic terms at that time. Now look at the role reversal. UCG/NUIG has been instrumental in getting Galway where it is now, that and a large loyal hinterland voting for pols who have brought the bacon home; Michael D, Geoghegan Quinn, Bobby Molloy.
Plus they're too far away to have their lunch eaten by Cork or Dublin - unlike Waterford. Even Carlow now thinks it can eat Waterford's lunch. :rolleyes:

So many missed opportunities over the decades and now we are left with the political concoction that is the TU process.I had a friend who was at conferring in AIT last week , the president there was saying they hoped to be Ireland's first stand alone TU by 2022 .Meanwhile WIT which is a much bigger institute in terms of students and research funding is been forced into a merger to keep the Carlow-Kilkenny politicians happy.

dzilla

Intergrity issues must be questioned aswell https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2018/1113/1010717-waterford-it-sale/

invara

So two news stories about issues with WIT's Governing Body in the week that WIT's Governing Body tries to push through the merger.

My hot take is that there was no smoking gun in the CAG report- basically tighten up processes. Deeply unfair to WIT in three ways- we do not have the funds to have UCD's standard of corporate governance (with Arthur Cox on speed-dial). The 15% shareholding is a university standard where professors get funding for the research.... all TSSG funding was won in competitive processes and that should be reflected in the equity stakes. Finally no mention in the report of the rounds of VC funding that diluted the WIT shareholding.

The KB case is in front of courts, so I will not say much other than I hope the Minister's role in explored publically.... https://www.irishtimes.com/news/wit-board-refuses-to-extend-term-of-president-1.569768

The beatings continue until WIT succumbs, both minor distractions to the main show which is the TUSE, a glorified plan to put WIT back in the RTC/IOT box.