Waterford University discussion

Christy Browne

JaCrispy wrote: »

On what basis?

WIT is the best ranked IT in the country, even outperforming Maynooth University in the recent Irish Times rankings.

It is also located in the only Irish city and region currently without a university.

JaCrispy

Christy Browne wrote: »

WIT is the best ranked IT in the country, even outperforming Maynooth University in the recent Irish Times rankings.

It is also located in the only Irish city and region currently without a university.

So Irish Times rankings and regional whataboutery? Anything else?

Deiseen

JaCrispy wrote: »

So Irish Times rankings and regional whataboutery? Anything else?

What's your criteria so?

Harry Palmr

ITC (or whatever its shortened to) really is threatening to be the tail wagging the dog. If Carlow cannot be successfully reconciled to it's position as the support act then WIT really needs to be allowed to plough on alone and we the people should make damned sure our voices are backing such a move.

blackwhite

Christy Browne wrote: »

WIT is the best ranked IT in the country, even outperforming Maynooth University in the recent Irish Times rankings.

It is also located in the only Irish city and region currently without a university.

What university does the North-West have?

Harry Palmr

Ulster University - Magee Campus

blackwhite

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Ulster University - Magee Campus

A bit like trying to argue that the South East has UCD, or UCC then! :pac:

imacman

Harry Palmr wrote: »

ITC (or whatever its shortened to) really is threatening to be the tail wagging the dog. If Carlow cannot be successfully reconciled to it's position as the support act then WIT really needs to be allowed to plough on alone and we the people should make damned sure our voices are backing such a move.

Logically thats the way it should go and CIT shouldn't have to take on the basket case that is ITTralee and their massive financial deficit .But logic has nothing to do with it, politics is whats driving this process.

Christy Browne

blackwhite wrote: »

A bit like trying to argue that the South East has UCD, or UCC then! :pac:

Derry is actually in the North-West of Ireland though

fricatus

JaCrispy wrote: »

regional whataboutery

Nice snappy phrase, but a pretty insulting way to dismiss our desire for equality.

If a woman you knew was being paid 70% what the men get for the same job, and was quite legitimately put out by this, would you just patronisingly dismiss it as "gender whataboutery"?

fricatus

blackwhite wrote: »

What university does the North-West have?

To answer this, I think the two places with the strongest geographical claim to a new university in the country are Waterford and Sligo.

I've seen a map where different parts of the country are shaded by their proximity to a university, and there are big gaps in the south east and north west.

You can argue that Sligo is not very big, that its IT doesn't do much research, etc. (I have no clue whether it does or not), but the geographical case is overwhelming. It would drive FDI and population growth across a huge neglected area.

blackwhite

Christy Browne wrote: »

Derry is actually in the North-West of Ireland though

Sligo town to Derry is a longer journey (both distance and travel time) than Waterford to Cork. (and that's before getting into the argument about expecting a foreign Government to be providing University coverage for one of our regions).

Sligo to Galway is even longer still.


I don't dispute that Waterford has a need for a University.
I strongly disagree that the way to make the case for Waterford is to denigrate the cases for other regions.


People in Waterford have a strong chip on their shoulders about how "neglected" the South East is.
The North West is in a far worse position, but never gets the attention (or investment) that the South East gets.

Christy Browne

blackwhite wrote: »

Sligo town to Derry is a longer journey (both distance and travel time) than Waterford to Cork. (and that's before getting into the argument about expecting a foreign Government to be providing University coverage for one of our regions).

Sligo to Galway is even longer still.


I don't dispute that Waterford has a need for a University.
I strongly disagree that the way to make the case for Waterford is to denigrate the cases for other regions.


People in Waterford have a strong chip on their shoulders about how "neglected" the South East is.
The North West is in a far worse position, but never gets the attention (or investment) that the South East gets.

If you’re going to compare Waterford to Cork and Sligo to Derry surely it should be Wexford to Cork or Donegal to Derry. You’re not comparing like with like.

blackwhite

Christy Browne wrote: »

If you’re going to compare Waterford to Cork and Sigo to Derry surely it should be Wexford to Cork or Donegal to Derry. You’re not comparing like with like.

Sligo is the midpoint in the region, and is considered the primary town in the northwest.

If you want to choose Wexford instead of Waterford. Wexford is closer to both UCD and to Trinity than Sligo is to NUIG or to Magee College in Derry (and even better serviced still by virtue of both rail and motorway connections to the locations of the colleges)


Or you can use your warped logic of looking at Donegal and Derry and compare the distance between Dungarvan and Cork to the distance between Donegal town and Derry city then :rolleyes:

azimuth17

I don't know why people are arguing the point. Waterford should have a university and that's that. Let people from other regions fight their own battles. They should not be denigrated, Neither should we be accused by anyone of having a chip on our shoulder about any investment. the south east has over 500,000 people which is sufficient to accommodate and service most things

Dunmoreroader

azimuth17 wrote: »

I don't know why people are arguing the point. Waterford should have a university and that's that. Let people from other regions fight their own battles. They should not be denigrated, Neither should we be accused by anyone of having a chip on our shoulder about any investment. the south east has over 500,000 people which is sufficient to accommodate and service most things

Well put. As I said in the context of the National Framework Directive/Ireland 2040, the 5 cities are to be prioritised and Waterford is the only one currently without a University. We've had to look on since the 1989 when Limerick became the 4th University city, patiently (impatiently in recent years) waiting our turn, the case in favour having long been made (Port Report etc.).
Sligo has a reasonable case for city status and University status too but on regional population doesn't have a more compelling case than Waterford and the Southeast.

Azatadine

azimuth17 wrote: »

I don't know why people are arguing the point. Waterford should have a university and that's that.

These kind of statements drive me mad. Kind of a 'Because we want one" type statement.

azimuth17

Its because the case has been made and everyone who has followed it in any detail understands that the entire political/educational system knows that Waterford should have a university which has been thwarted by the same political/educational system. I refuse to make the case again or argue the case again or engage with people who want to have endless futile discussion about the it. Its now a case of we want it and have to have it,

vriesmays

Azatadine wrote: »

These kind of statements drive me mad. Kind of a 'Because we want one" type statement.

Same with the climate change argument, if you don't want one then you're a Waterford University Denier.

hardybuck

azimuth17 wrote: »

I don't know why people are arguing the point. Waterford should have a university and that's that. Let people from other regions fight their own battles. They should not be denigrated, Neither should we be accused by anyone of having a chip on our shoulder about any investment. the south east has over 500,000 people which is sufficient to accommodate and service most things

I think the problem with that is that huge swathes of the population don't view Waterford as their regional center and don't use it as such, particularly as so many of that number are within a reasonable commute of other established Universities.

azimuth17

I see the trolls and lurkers are out in force.

hardybuck

azimuth17 wrote: »

I see the trolls and lurkers are out in force.

If you were being trolled I might have mentioned something about tinfoil hats or whatever.

It'll be a Technological University whenever themselves and Carlow make it work.

Bards

There would be no talk of Technical universities if it were not for Wit and its struggle to become a University....

The other ITs and their What About Me syndrome made sure of that

hardybuck

Bards wrote: »

There would be no talk of Technical universities if it were not for Wit and its struggle to become a University....

The other ITs and their What About Me syndrome made sure of that

Everyone has that syndrome though, including Waterford - it's at the very heart of the desire to have one.

Dunmoreroader

hardybuck wrote: »

I think the problem with that is that huge swathes of the population don't view Waterford as their regional center and don't use it as such, particularly as so many of that number are within a reasonable commute of other established Universities.

At the risk of being a repetitive windbag, that's what the National Framework Directive is (supposed to be) about, building up Waterford as the hub and driver for the Southeast so that those within the region that have turned their backs on Waterford have reasons to turn again to consider their regional capital for education, transport, retail, employment, medical needs etc. rather than looking outside the region to Dublin, Cork or Limerick to meet these needs.
Keep it regional baby.

hardybuck

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

At the risk of being a repetitive windbag, that's what the National Framework Directive is (supposed to be) about, building up Waterford as the hub and driver for the Southeast so that those within the region that have turned their backs on Waterford have reasons to turn again to consider their regional capital for education, transport, retail, employment, medical needs etc. rather than looking outside the region to Dublin, Cork or Limerick to meet these needs.
Keep it regional baby.

Yeah it's a fine plan, but it won't change the fact that Gorey is closer to UCD than WIT, Cahir is closer to UCC and UL than WIT etc.

I'm not sure if changing the name over the door will make a massive difference - I think if nothing changes it's still a place that deserves respect as an institution.

I think if they continue to do good research, improve the quality and range of courses on offer, and make sure they have good services - particularly accommodation, for students, they'll become a destination of choice for students from the region.

Dunmoreroader

hardybuck wrote: »

Yeah it's a fine plan, but it won't change the fact that Gorey is closer to UCD than WIT, Cahir is closer to UCC and UL than WIT etc.

I'm not sure if changing the name over the door will make a massive difference - I think if nothing changes it's still a place that deserves respect as an institution.

I think if they continue to do good research, improve the quality and range of courses on offer, and make sure they have good services - particularly accommodation, for students, they'll become a destination of choice for students from the region.

If all they do is change the name over the door I agree with you.
On the other hand if WIT were to get proper re-designation as a University with it's own independent and proportionate budget, independent governance, ability to confer degrees, independent ability to raise research income, borrow etc. that's a different kettle of fish.

hardybuck

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

If all they do is change the name over the door I agree with you.
On the other hand if WIT were to get proper re-designation as a University with it's own independent and proportionate budget, independent governance, ability to confer degrees, independent ability to raise research income, borrow etc. that's a different kettle of fish.

Wouldn't it have those things at the moment?

imacman

hardybuck wrote: »

Wouldn't it have those things at the moment?

Nope IT's have no ability to borrow and are completely reliant on the ever decreasing government funding.UL can go and get a 200 million low interest loan from the european investment bank to expand their campus into the city , meanwhile WIT can barley afford to replace its clapped out equipment. Its funny that people in Waterford say why dont WIT expand into the old crystal site its ideal and it is but they have no money to do it.

hardybuck

imacman wrote: »

Nope IT's have no ability to borrow and are completely reliant on the ever decreasing government funding.UL can go and get a 200 million low interest loan from the european investment bank to expand their campus into the city , meanwhile WIT can barley afford to replace its clapped out equipment. Its funny that people in Waterford say why dont WIT expand into the old crystal site its ideal and it is but they have no money to do it.

The EIB thing seems strange - I'd like to know more about the background to that.