Waterford University discussion

mart 23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144204#Comment_118144204

Yess Gender equality.

imacman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118144204#Comment_118144204

Maybe not, I heard today that the job description will be like the MTU and TUD roles. They all had 10 years or more experience working to a full university as an essential requirement. She doesn't have that as she has only worked in Carlow. TUD appointed a UCD academic and MTU a woman from a university in Scotland. Also, the LIT president was made president of TUS, but he had only been in the job just over a year and he had come from UL where he had worked for 20 years. So, if that is the case she won't even be able to apply for the job.

Figerty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148385#Comment_118148385

You might want to recheck that statement re LIT president.

Had been President of IT Sligo, President in LIT for a number of years. Ex UL and had been MD of Shannon Development.

imacman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118150014#Comment_118150014

Yes fair enough, got mixed up on that one. But he had a much more robust and varied CV than Patricia Mulcahy who has only worked in a management/leadership capacity in ITCarlow . I think her chance of getting it are remote. Of all the TU mergers that have gone on this one needs an independent president from the outside with no skin in the game the most. I think that's how it will play out and I think the politicians will want that to happen

SeanieW1977

Patricia Mulcahy can not be left anywhere near the wheel. She is dangerous & completely in league with KK/Carlow politicians. It will be an absolute disaster for Waterford should she get it.

Also - did i not see on facebook or twitter that Carlow are already building a huge shared services building? AKA HQ for TUSE?

imacman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118151660#Comment_118151660

Yea they broke ground on that building a few weeks ago. And the 12 years of waiting continues into next year for a start on the engineering building at WIT

vriesmays

No clever kid in Waterford would go to that Mickey Mouse university.

Finnbar01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118152109#Comment_118152109

I wouldn't hold my breath on

that building going ahead.

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118160968#Comment_118160968

The Carlow or Waterford building?

Finnbar01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118162971#Comment_118162971

Waterford one.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118160968#Comment_118160968

This new engineering building will go ahead, and our politician's will sell this as commitment by government to establish this university of "international standing"

Then us common folk will hold the politicians to account by saying this building was due to be built in 2009 and announced three times since then.

Our "elite" politicians will tell us to stop being negitive, that we can't be looking to the past, this is a good news story for Waterford so stop being negitive.

And if we question Leo or Míchael they will say how they invested in Dunmore Wing, mortuary, greenway, and north Quays, as they love busting out those old chestnuts.

When in reality, dunmore Wing was part funding by the people.

They had to be shamed into the mortuary

Greenway funding was left short

North Quays, well the next generation will probably be still talking about that.

vriesmays

Don't forget the ghost airport, the missing line to Rosslare, the Festival of Light Opera ending.

914

I see WIT is in the top 10 of the times, top universities guide.

GMIT won IoT of the year. Didn't pick up the time yet so not sure of the full rankings

imacman

Our partners in ITcarlow bottom of the table again for the second year in a row.

imacman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118164559#Comment_118164559

WIT was the top ranked IT

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165775#Comment_118165775

Did they? As WIT posted this on Twitter today.

"A warm congratulations to @GMITOfficial who we pass The Sunday Times Good University Guide Institute of Technology of the Year title to and our colleagues at @nuigalway, @MTU_ie and @RCSI_Irl for their respective title wins 🏆🏆🏆"

Ah ok unless GMIT scoop the award but WIT were ranked above them, I get you.

garyscargo

How interesting:

"Minister Simon Harris set to visit Carlow and Kilkenny today.

The Higher Education Minister Simon Harris is due in Carlow and Kilkenny today about the new Technological University of the South East of Ireland (TUSEI)." (KCLR96FM)

So, no visit to Waterford from Minister Harris regarding the TU once again. Him never bothering to visit Waterford at all (and only Waterford in the SE?) to "sell" the TUSE plan in the first place, and then announcing the TU from Wexford (and quickly promising a Wexford campus as a priority in the following breath to some local gobshite), is all the more worrying as it suggests that there's no central government-level thinking that Waterford must be at the core of this thing.

imacman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118166621#Comment_118166621

Yes its is strange to be granted Institute of Technology of the Year and finish 12th behind WIT and Dundalk IT in the rankings. I think the IT of the year goes around in cycles as you never see any of the IT's winning it 2 or 3 times in a row.The ranking are always a true representation of where the colleges stand and WIT has been constistantly in the top 2 IT,s with CIT over the last 5 years

914

If anyone wants to listen to what the minister said

https://soundcloud.app.goo.gl/DK7oK

"Kilkenny as a city and county can play a role in that Technological University”.

He suggests of some sort of a campus but doesn't commit to one, sounds like he's doing to Kilkenny what politicians have done to Waterford for decades, we'll dangle the carrot in front of you but give you nothing

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169617#Comment_118169617

That is one of the most infuriating things about the whole TU nonsense. If WIT was to be upgraded to a full university Kilkenny and Wexford would benefit massively from it. But their politicians can’t see past the whole we have to keep Waterford down thing. Now we are all in a situation where the region as a whole is going to continue to be at a disadvantage and underperform.

CraftBeer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118165704#Comment_118165704

Great to see Minister for education visiting Carlow/Kilkenny today to discuss TUSE. Very interesting that he didn't bother visiting Waterford. He probably got a great pitch from KK for locating the HQ there, and i do hope KK get it. There's also a lovely corporate services building planned for Carlow that could serve as HQ, or the beautiful St. Patricks which wants to be part of TUSE according to Simon. That'll bring the student numbers in Carlow up by another 700 and will ensure even more investment for Carlow town in this separate campus. It'd make sense that the administrative HQ is not in Waterford, given that you've proven to be so poor at managing your finances compared to IT Carlow.

It's unfortunate to see the usual entitled Waterford moaning in the thread - in many ways you remind me of the Brits behaviour during Brexit. You have a whiff of misplaced exceptionalism about you, and you think everyone else should bend to your will. You've got yourselves all worked up about the sunlit uplands of a standalone university. Carlow IT is like Ireland during Brexit - smaller but more agile. You'll learn, just like the UK learned, that size doesn't matter. A smaller entity can run rings around you when they have made the effort to build partnerships and alliances with our friends in WX and KK.

sincerely,

Your Carlow partners 🇮🇪

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118169779#Comment_118169779

Fully agree, and where was the region buy in, in 2005 when WIT applied for full University status? No buy in as neighbouring counties didn't get a slice of the pie in the form of campuses etc.

This region buy in nonsense has really annoyed me lately as it's stroke politics at its finest.

Health, UHW under UCC, St Luke's Kilkenny and Carlow, Wexford general all under UCD

When it comes to Education everything has to be regional as they can all get a slice of the pie, when it comes to health there is no region as it would put UHW as the driver.

Maybe TUSE will become the medical school for UHW, St Luke's and Wexford general. (I doubt it very much as we most likely won't see a school of medicine)

The regional politicians have denied the region of a stand alone University on par with UL, UCC etc as all they want is a campus in their own back yard and are too stupid enough to see the benefits that a full University would bring.

Cutting off their nose to spite their face.

Drives me mad.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171059#Comment_118171059

Again someone misses the point of what a stand alone University would bring.

In order for the SE to be a success it needs a stand alone Uni and a TU.

That then puts the SE on par with every other region.

As you say Carlow might get an extra 700 students but might lose business school to Wexford which is a bit like rearrange the furniture in your house to make it seem bigger, all that will happen is bits and pieces get moved around meaning the South East is no stronger than when it had WIT and IT Carlow.

Both WIT and IT Carlow are IoTs of "international standing" which to me makes sense and has the SE in a stronger position having two institutes where as now we're going to just have one institute.

For those living in the SE and wishing to study in a stand alone Uni be it for teaching medicine or what ever? Where to they go? They still leave the region.

I could be wrong maybe we see the 500m required for both WIT and IT Carlow (which excludes any new campuses in Wexford and Kilkenny) granted, maybe we see a new school of medicine and teaching open but I'm not so sure and unless that happens we will be no better offer.

SE has more to lose than to gain from TU as if adequate funding isn't delivered then it's a failure and the merger puts any hope of stand alone University to bed

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171059#Comment_118171059

“You have a whiff of misplaced exceptionalism about you”

Ahh, you have a whiff of utter BS. Someone from a town of 24,000 expecting a university saying Waterford has misplaced exceptionalism is laughable.

WIT got to a university level as recognised by external assessors. What has IT Carlow achieved other than being bottom of the rankings? As usual our “friends” in neighboring counties can’t bear the thought Waterford would get something they in reality can’t achieve because they are too small. Your post demonstrates this attitude.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171481#Comment_118171481

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118171059#Comment_118171059

This is an interesting post as it shows the kind of dross one gets when political influence is the chosen method to achieve something that could probably never otherwise be achieved for Carlow. The ignorance of the background and Waterford's long struggle for university designation, without which the TUSE would not even be on the agenda, suggests that much more basic education is still required for our Carlow friends.

CraftBeer

There ye go again blaming everyone but yourselves. Wexford, Carlow and Kilkenny have had absolutely nothing to do with you lot failing to become a University. That's your achievement...or should I say that's your underachievement. Own it.

I look forward to Wexford, Carlow and Kilkenny partners carving up the TUSE investment amongst ourselves here in Leinster. Maybe Cullinane can secure some extra funds for your graffiti festival instead. Maybe for an aul Bobby Sands mural for the intelligent, educated voters of Waterford?

As for the size of Carlow town?

In 1991, Waterford city was almost 3 times the population of Carlow town

In 2016, the gap had shrunk to 2.2 times the size. 

In the census next year it'll probably have narrowed again.

I won't even get started on the 30 minute catchment area of Carlow vs Waterford. Portlaoise, Kilkenny, Naas and Newbridge all say hi.

The Waterford exceptionalism in here is only matched by the exceptional bitterness.

Enjoy your evening!

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177092#Comment_118177092

If we have multiple reports stating that WIT should be upgraded to a stand-alone University - but never was - then why would we blame ourselves? The people of the region put in mammoth effort to create one of the Top 2 IT's in the country, only to be denied this despite the findings of the reports.

Portlaoise, Naas and Newbridge are not 30 minutes from Carlow. The only one from your list within 30 minutes is Kilkenny. The 30 minute catchment of Waterford City, Ferrybank, New Ross and Tramore is substantially larger.

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177092#Comment_118177092

More dross, heavily laden with un-necessary and ignorant comments. You obviously have no understanding of the background to the whole university campaign and seek to denigrate the effort made by people in Waterford to bring things this far. I also begin to wonder from the type of negative comment you make, as to whether we have heard from you before on this forum in different guise(s).

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118180275#Comment_118180275

Was just thinking earlier that they remind me of TheQuietFella/Vriesmays.....

If these are all the same person, then what a sad loser they are to be constantly hanging out on the Waterford forum like this.

I genuinely feel sorry for them.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118177092#Comment_118177092

Can we stop the Waterford V Carlow bull and focus on the real issue.

The SouthEast will still be without a stand alone University. We will be no different then every other TU, yes we might top the TU poll as WIT has done in the IoT sector but that makes little difference.

In order to the SE to thrive we need a University and TU or if you are going to the effort in merging WIT and ITC why not create University of the SE rather that TUSE?

It has already been stated in several independent reports that WIT had a case to become University since the 90s and the reward for the WIT and the SE doing so well, is to just give it the same status as everyone else.

Why not give the South East a University?

Ideally I would like to see Waterford University with a Campus in Kilkenny and Carlow TU with a campus in Wexford.

They SE is then in a really strong position to attract the R&D and FDI that the region needs.

Your argument of throwing sly digs at Waterford just comes across childish, and actually states what you say you are against as you come across as "I'm delighted Waterford isn't getting what it wants and Carlow Wexford and Kilkenny are getting what we want"

Stroke politics of cutting off your nose to spite your face. If you really have the SE best interests at heart you would be fully behind delivering a University on par with UCC UL etc and not some watered down version to keep up with the likes of Clonmel, Letterkenny etc (by the way nothing against those towns)

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118181402#Comment_118181402

I'd agree with that but I would change it slightly.

Have the University in Waterford and the TUSE in Carlow, KK and Wexford.

I would have absolutely no problem with that at all and it would bring the Region up to the levels of other regions.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118182069#Comment_118182069

I don't disagree with that.

Make WIT stand alone Uni

IT Carlow TU

Allow both institutes decide if they want additional campuses in other countries and towns as opposed to politicians deciding these things.

Imagine how well served the region would be with a stand alone University and TU, that would really be transformative for the region.

No HQ, funding etc can be announced until new TU entity and board are formed yet we can agree to new campuses without new entity or board approval. Explain that one.

Waterford campus and Carlow campus require 500million between them in order to be a success this is not including new campuses in Wexford and Kilkenny.

What we will most likely see is somewhere on around 250-300m investment which will be carved up between four campuses leaving the SE no better off than how it is currently being served.

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118182212#Comment_118182212

And then people like CraftBeer above will celebrate this pittance into the region because it means less money for Waterford (but also the region as a whole).

BBM77

I know this won’t happen but I honestly think the way to go is pull out of the merger and change the name to University College Waterford. We need to take a stand. It is just shocking the extent that Waterford is being kept down by politics in this country. People in Waterford really need to wise up to what the Irish state is doing with it's treatment of Waterford. It’s just oppressive what is happening.

imacman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184841#Comment_118184841

Yes but that's never going to happen, there is no politician or party that would support it. We are stuck with this TU so as the biggest organisation we should become the leaders of the project and pressure should be put on the politicians for

The new campus on the Waterford crystal site

The HQ in Waterford

An independent external candidate preferable from a UK University as president (no sweetheart deals to make Patricia Mulcathy president)

Funding to make the TU more than just a renaming

Any capital funding to be spent in Waterford and Carlow first. If Wexford or Kilkenny want a campus let them make a business case for it. And it needs to be more than the local politicians wanting it ; it must stand up financially otherwise it's a waste of resources that could be better spent in Carlow or Waterford. (And we know the existing Wexford campus is already a financial drain on ITCarlow and thats why they have dragged their feet on a new campus down there for the last 5 years)

WIT is a bigger and better IT than Carlow, just look at the independent Sunday Times ranking, WIT join top IT this year, Institute of Technology of the year last year and ranked above Maynooth and TUD and just behind CIT last year, ITcarlow bottom of the rankings on both years. So WIT needs to stand up and make its case and stop pandering and bending down to Carlow , be the leaders and work with Carlow to make it the best TU in the country.

SeanieW1977

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185564#Comment_118185564

in my time, Carlow IT was for the lads couldnt get into WIT

No amount of lipstick, political interference or money thrown at it can change the image of that pig...

JaCrispy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118190281#Comment_118190281

1977, so I'm guessing "in that time" is the 90s. The same time that there was an East and West Germany, before the "Internet" was available to public and where mobile technology was in it's infancy. Time moves on.....and things change.

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118219296#Comment_118219296

Still bottom of the table in the Irish Times University guide....

imacman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118220666#Comment_118220666

I think the time for bashing Carlow is past, we are stuck with them as partners and like the fact that we will never get full university status there is no getting around it. So, the important thing now is that Waterford gets the funding it needs as a TU starting with the development of the crystal site which is an eyesore and a stain on the city

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118222107#Comment_118222107

I didn't mean it as a bash. Just pointing out the realities, as we have people on here trumpeting its qualities and how it is on equal footing with WIT when its just not the case.

imacman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118224378#Comment_118224378

Yes, I get that, and I have sone the same myself many times, but I feel that its shouting into the void now. I have come to the conclusion the TU is inevitable and we need to make the best of it and get the most out of it. WIT has always been in the two top ITs in the country along with CIT so it has the potential to be one of the best TUs in the country

Finnbar01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118225280#Comment_118225280

I admire your optimism but I can't see TUSE been a success with scattered campuses across the South East and lack of funding.

914

Dr Ray Griffin was very good on Déise Today yesterday (that sounds odd!) as always.

Citing funding issue, lack of courses and unsure if TU will address these issues.

imacman

Strong but depressing stuff on the TU from the Phoenix this week

https://waterford-news.ie/2021/11/30/phoenix-into-the-abyss/

914

Pretty damming and hard to disagree with phoenix here.

I'm always amazed how our local politicians seem to brush Ray Griffen aside, a man who has spent his life in higher education as a student and lecturer.

A man who knows the ins and out of it all and yet not one of our representatives have ever said, Ray has done a lot of work on this and he is right without the funding TUSE is a waste.

For the life of me I can't see how this is a "game changer" for the South East.

Politicians seem to believe the name change on the parchment will be the "game changer". Will anyone who got a first class honours from and IT be worse off than anyone who gets a first class honours from a TU? I highly doubt it.

imacman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118253178#Comment_118253178

Completely agree this whole game changer narrative has gone on about all the new TU's. It's sad to see the likes of IBEC and local businesses completely buy into the TU idea with no investigation about how it will work and what actual benefits it will bring. It's like they have all decided that there is no other game in town and we will cross out fingers and hope for the best.

BBM77

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118257806#Comment_118257806

“all decided that there is no other game in town and we will cross out fingers and hope for the best”

I guess that is somewhat understandable considering the way national politics/government treats Waterford.

Also notice that talk of purchasing the old Waterford crystal site had died as soon as the merge was confirmed. Cummins also has done another disappearing act.

gw80

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118261401#Comment_118261401

Just on the old waterford crystal site, has it been made to look as dilapidated as possible for some reason, are the owners hoping that the more run down it looks that it will have to be addressed quicker?.

vriesmays

South East University will be for people who couldn't get into ucc/ucd/tcd/dit. Why would anyone do a course there when there are similar but better ones in other colleges. If they offered a degree in a unique course like physical anthropology that would make it stand out.