Waterford University discussion

CramCycle

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

What you are not making any allowance for are those in the South-East whose families cannot afford to support them living away from home to attend distant Universities.
They essentially are deprived of further education due to economic circumstances of their families.

They can still attend WIT or any number of other cities. I do agree about Dublin, they are deprived there but if the course they want is in any of the other parts of the country and not WIT (and not Dublin) the student grant will help significantly with the rent, as well as student assistance schemes. I know several people who got into 3rd level, extra financial support and reduced accommodation costs if their guidance councillor is any good.

Perception means a lot ..... so a 'Uni qualification' has more meaning/clout/regard than any similar qualification from a (perceived) lesser educational establishment.

Something that seems internal to Ireland, plenty of my students from ITT got into fine MSc and PhDs across the globe. It really does come across as parental units want to say little one went to University rather than they got an education. Yes some hold far more clout but only when you are looking at the top 1% of further education or jobs, which nowadays need a PhD or MSc anyway (although they shouldn't but that's another rant).

I stand by my opinion but you are right, little Ireland and the "view" is more important than actually just a good education. It certainly will do the area good, but again it shouldn't be needed if it was treated and run right.

imacman

Just read the Fianna Fail election manifesto, very little mention of third level just some vague promises to increase funding and no mention at all about the TUs

invara

imacman wrote: »

Just read the Fianna Fail election manifesto, very little mention of third level just some vague promises to increase funding and no mention at all about the TUs

Yes I wonder is that a good thing, or even just a neutral thing. Turning the TU unconsentual merger-nofunding wagon around is a political undertaking. So the choice is crystalised as FG promising to still do us in, v's FF which is promising nothing.

invara

All Irish universities are regional colleges....
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/many-students-choosing-to-study-at-third-level-in-home-county-977748.html

vriesmays

More positive publicity:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/chinese-student-in-isolation-in-waterford-amid-coronavirus-fears-977970.html

imacman

vriesmays wrote: »

More positive publicity:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/chinese-student-in-isolation-in-waterford-amid-coronavirus-fears-977970.html

This isn't really an issue for WIT and in conjunction with the HSE they have handled it really well . I expect he will be given the all clear tomorrow

imacman

Interesting election for the future of WIT .David Cullinane heading to the front bench if Sinn Fein go into government ( with Fianna Fail most likely) Pat Deering the Carlow Td and main political cheerleader for ITCarlow going to lose his seat and Mary Michel O Connor has already lost hers.I'm not sure where all this is going to go but I think Waterford will end up with more political backing going forward

invara

All has changed this morning. Mary Mitchell O'Connor, Pat Deering, a further Govt seat in Wexford all gone, Howlin unlikely to be in the shakeup (so the pro- mergers of equals, IT Carlow led, no funding/growth TU grouping are enfeebled) ..... and a renewed strength from Waterford with David Cullinane in a pivotal position, Mary Butler strengthen in a weakened but more powerful FF and possibly even O'Cathasaigh of Shanahan in the mix.

Jennifer Murnane O'Connor in Carlow will (and should) represent for Carlow IT, but with a counter-balance. There is far more hope that a university of substance might be delivered in the SE, rather than a wierdo merger, get back in the RTC box technological universities.

It is the stroke of the pen in a programme for Govt that decides the fate of this one.

imacman

invara wrote: »

All has changed this morning. Mary Mitchell O'Connor, Pat Deering, a further Govt seat in Wexford all gone, Howlin unlikely to be in the shakeup (so the pro- mergers of equals, IT Carlow led, no funding/growth TU grouping are enfeebled) ..... and a renewed strength from Waterford with David Cullinane in a pivotal position, Mary Butler strengthen in a weakened but more powerful FF and possibly even O'Cathasaigh of Shanahan in the mix.

Jennifer Murnane O'Connor in Carlow will (and should) represent for Carlow IT, but with a counter-balance. There is far more hope that a university of substance might be delivered in the SE, rather than a wierdo merger, get back in the RTC box technological universities.

It is the stroke of the pen in a programme for Govt that decides the fate of this one.

Yes and I think Willie Donnelly and David Cullinane need to kiss and make up as soon as possible

invara

So... with the clouds lifting and hope for a fairer weather thoughts on what happens next?
There ia spectrum of options for the for new Goverment.... that span- full university through various versions of the TU (merger/no merger, investment/no-investment) to staying with the status quo of two IoTs. The core question is do they have the ambition to stop the region's brain drain?

robtri

invara wrote: »

So... with the clouds lifting and hope for a fairer weather thoughts on what happens next?
There ia spectrum of options for the for new Goverment.... that span- full university through various versions of the TU (merger/no merger, investment/no-investment) to staying with the status quo of two IoTs. The core question is do they have the ambition to stop the region's brain drain?

being honest I reckon it will stay as is, not that anyone has the "ambition" but there are bigger issues at hand to deal with at first.

invara

I wonder what the wisdom of boards.ie is on a new greenfield campus on the Carriganore plot or a bolt on extension by buying Waterford Crystal's old site......

Deiseen

invara wrote: »

I wonder what the wisdom of boards.ie is on a new greenfield campus on the Carriganore plot or a bolt on extension by buying Waterford Crystal's old site......

Waterford Crystal 100%

Harry Palmr

Surely that boat has sailed, though I'm sure Frisby would be happy to take the states cash if there's enough of it.

imacman

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Surely that boat has sailed, though I'm sure Frisby would be happy to take the states cash if there's enough of it.

Problem is WIT is in deficit and has no funding to spend on anything outside its core expenditure.

Harry Palmr

Surely the Powers That Be are not expecting WIT to become a university (part of) without significant capital spending.

invara

imacman wrote: »

Problem is WIT is in deficit and has no funding to spend on anything outside its core expenditure.

WIT's funding (compared to UL for example) is a Dáil-made problem.... and perhaps that is where the answer lies. I think all four of Waterford's TDs are focused on this issue and perhaps the lack of effort (Deasy) or sucess (Halligan) will change this time out.

Interesting to see Matt Shanahan's statement in the Dáil yesterday,
https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2020-03-05/6/#spk_62
hopefully one of many voices from the SE that will start pulling together for better higher education services here.

imacman

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Surely the Powers That Be are not expecting WIT to become a university (part of) without significant capital spending.

That's exactly what the powers that be want, a re-brand as a university with no real solid investment required.

vriesmays

If WIT is so good how come there are hundreds of vacancies for technical jobs in the South East.

https://www.businesspost.ie/property-insight/new-jobs-fair-hopes-to-lure-tech-workers-to-sunny-south-east-49c411c5

JimWinters

vriesmays wrote: »

If WIT is so good how come there are hundreds of vacancies for technical jobs in the South East.

WIT, through TSSG, has created a huge ecosystem of tech companies around the city and region. Check out https://crystalvalley.io/members/ to see just how many companies there are, the majority of these wouldn’t be here without WIT.

These companies have had great success in Waterford and are expanding so they need more staff. Many of these companies hire WIT students before they even graduate. The ICT graduates from WIT are very well regarded in the industry.

Not every leaving cert student who studies computing goes to WIT, but those that do have great job prospects here in Waterford. These companies often offer Dublin level wages which go a lot further when you have Waterford level costs of living so it’s reasonable for them to be trying to recruit experienced, skilled people and bring them to Waterford...

BBM77

vriesmays wrote: »

If WIT is so good how come there are hundreds of vacancies for technical jobs in the South East.

https://www.businesspost.ie/property-insight/new-jobs-fair-hopes-to-lure-tech-workers-to-sunny-south-east-49c411c5

There are hundreds of vacancies for technical jobs in Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway to.

Max Powers

vriesmays wrote: »

If WIT is so good how come there are hundreds of vacancies for technical jobs in the South East.

https://www.businesspost.ie/property-insight/new-jobs-fair-hopes-to-lure-tech-workers-to-sunny-south-east-49c411c5

Another stupid comment. Great to see jobs being created, especially high paying ITC ones.

imacman

Things have gone very quite across the board on the TU front.The coming recession/depression will test the commitment of the new government to the TU process and its previously promised 300 million budget. I can see the whole thing been shelved as there will be plenty of other more important things for that money to be spent on and as we have seen there is no real appetite among the institutions to move forward.

BBM77

imacman wrote: »

Things have gone very quite across the board on the TU front.The coming recession/depression will test the commitment of the new government to the TU process and its previously promised 300 million budget. I can see the whole thing been shelved as there will be plenty of other more important things for that money to be spent on and as we have seen there is no real appetite among the institutions to move forward.

Don’t really buy this whole economic depression thing. However, if the pandemic kills the WIT/CIT TU merger it just shows there is an upside to everything.

I mean the money that has been wasted on this parish pump merger nonsense. It would easily pay to have upgraded WIT to a full university and be done with it.

I hope Deasy, Howlin and Hogan are happy with themselves that they have damaged the whole south east economically by what they did.

skooterblue2

BBM77 wrote: »

Don’t really buy this whole economic depression thing. However, if the pandemic kills the WIT/CIT TU merger it just shows there is an upside to everything.

I mean the money that has been wasted on this parish pump merger nonsense. It would easily pay to have upgraded WIT to a full university and be done with it.

I hope Deasy, Howlin and Hogan are happy with themselves that they have damaged the whole south east economically by what they did.

We are going to a massive depression immediately after Covid 19. Like how big? "Jimmy get up on your shine box and start tap dancing like it was 1930" deep depression.

Yeah I agree WIT would be faster and stronger without Carlow at pursuing a TU venture. Its going to take Carlow another 20 years to get in shape for a university status.

Wanderer78

BBM77 wrote: »

Don’t really buy this whole economic depression thing. However, if the pandemic kills the WIT/CIT TU merger it just shows there is an upside to everything.

I mean the money that has been wasted on this parish pump merger nonsense. It would easily pay to have upgraded WIT to a full university and be done with it.

I hope Deasy, Howlin and Hogan are happy with themselves that they have damaged the whole south east economically by what they did.

are your models more accurate than most professional models, baring in mind, i do realise all models are wrong, and i suspect many maybe over amplifying the extent of the oncoming downturn, but.....

BBM77

skooterblue2 wrote: »

We are going to a massive depression immediately after Covid 19. Like how big? "Jimmy get up on your shine box and start tap dancing like it was 1930" deep depression.

Wanderer78 wrote: »

are your models more accurate than most professional models, baring in mind, i do realise all models are wrong, and i suspect many maybe over amplifying the extent of the oncoming downturn, but.....

What model? Where did I say anything about modelling the economy? Just feel that there won’t be a depression. Clearly I am not the only one as I found this in a quick Google search.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/phillipbraun/2020/04/10/why-covid-19-wont-trigger-another-great-depression/#f5b3dc48ba93

Heard another economist express a similar feeling on the radio the other day.

At my age I have heard this catastrophe narrative from the media so much it means nothing. Have not read the IMF report but I’m sure the picture they paint is not as gloomy as the media is presenting.

The truth is nobody knows what is around the corner at the moment. It depends how the virus behaves. It could completely fade out, fade out for a period and come back worse or a vaccine is found and the problem is then much smaller.

Good quote from Robert Shorrt:

“Historic comparisons are problematic. There are always caveats and historical events are constantly reassessed with new research.”

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0415/1130665-are-we-facing-the-second-great-depression/

A hopeful economic outlook is just as valid as another great depression. The catastrophe narrative seems to be more exciting to many people.

Wanderer78

BBM77 wrote: »

What model? Where did I say anything about modelling the economy? Just feel that there won’t be a depression. Clearly I am not the only one as I found this in a quick Google search.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/phillipbraun/2020/04/10/why-covid-19-wont-trigger-another-great-depression/#f5b3dc48ba93

Heard another economist express a similar feeling on the radio the other day.

At my age I have heard this catastrophe narrative from the media so much it means nothing. Have not read the IMF report but I’m sure the picture they paint is not as gloomy as the media is presenting.

The truth is nobody knows what is around the corner at the moment. It depends how the virus behaves. It could completely fade out, fade out for a period and come back worse or a vaccine is found and the problem is then much smaller.

Good quote from Robert Shorrt:

“Historic comparisons are problematic. There are always caveats and historical events are constantly reassessed with new research.”

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0415/1130665-are-we-facing-the-second-great-depression/

A hopeful economic outlook is just as valid as another great depression. The catastrophe narrative seems to be more exciting to many people.

some very good points there alright, but im also not buying the v recovery, i do think they ll be some sort of u shape recovery, but nobody knows the length of all of its sides. im also not sold on the catastrophic depression outcome either, but i do think the next few months wont be pretty, painful in fact

skooterblue2

BBM77 wrote: »

The truth is nobody knows what is around the corner at the moment. It depends how the virus behaves. It could completely fade out, fade out for a period and come back worse or a vaccine is found and the problem is then much smaller.


A hopeful economic outlook is just as valid as another great depression. The catastrophe narrative seems to be more exciting to many people.

Actually I had predicted accurately as early as last year there would be a massive recession at this exact time, end of March 2020. University lecturers at interviews were gobsmacked and laughing at me how I could see it and how I could be so insistent on a specific date. Low and behold the Dow hit that 30k high and nobody was worried. They were all worried about a few policemen who died a hundred years ago when nobody else was alive to take offence.

There will be no vaccine as it will take two years to develop and the virus will have run its course at that stage.

What will happen is that many people will lose their wealth and the smart few will hoover it up just the same in the 1930's.

Wanderer78

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Actually I had predicted accurately as early as last year there would be a massive recession at this exact time, end of March 2020. University lecturers at interviews were gobsmacked and laughing at me how I could see it and how I could be so insistent on a specific date. Low and behold the Dow hit that 30k high and nobody was worried. They were all worried about a few policemen who died a hundred years ago when nobody else was alive to take offence.

There will be no vaccine as it will take two years to develop and the virus will have run its course at that stage.

What will happen is that many people will lose their wealth and the smart few will hoover it up just the same in the 1930's.

but you did not predict a pandemic was gonna be the cause of this downturn, many commentators have been predicting a crash for a very long time, it was clearly obvious it was gonna happen at some stage, but very few seen this would be the cause. we also have to be aware of the effects of catastrophisation here, as i and others have said, we simply dont know how deep this will go, our economies are far more complex beasts as they were in the 30's, im absolutely not convinced of a deep depression like so, we have a better understanding of our complex systems and processes that are our economies, i suspect we ll pull it together before we truly hit deep ****, we done it in 08, i think we ll do it again now