Waterford University discussion

skooterblue2

Wanderer78 wrote: »

but you did not predict a pandemic was gonna be the cause of this downturn, many commentators have been predicting a crash for a very long time, it was clearly obvious it was gonna happen at some stage, but very few seen this would be the cause. we also have to be aware of the effects of catastrophisation here, as i and others have said, we simply dont know how deep this will go, our economies are far more complex beasts as they were in the 30's, im absolutely not convinced of a deep depression like so, we have a better understanding of our complex systems and processes that are our economies, i suspect we ll pull it together before we truly hit deep ****, we done it in 08, i think we ll do it again now

The virus is not the cause of this depression. It is not cause but the trigger. Unregulated debt and over leveraged markets are the cause of this depression. It could just as easily have been an assassination of a high profile person (*crosses fingers* Cast of HollyOaks *rocks back and forth*). Until this problem with international banking is resolved then we can start to move forward.

Wanderer78

skooterblue2 wrote: »

The virus is not the cause of this depression. It is not cause but the trigger. Unregulated debt and over leveraged markets are the cause of this depression. It could just as easily have been an assassination of a high profile person (*crosses fingers* Cast of HollyOaks *rocks back and forth*). Until this problem with international banking is resolved then we can start to move forward.

the global economy has virtually shut down, demand has collapsed, debt hasnt raised its ugly head yet, but it will! central bank printing presses are doing endless overtime, debt and money isnt exactly a problem yet, but it will be! when people start struggling to service their debts, then the debt issues will start surfacing, but at the moment, its just mainly demand issues. i will agree though, we have not dealt with the overhanging debt issues from the previous crash, but again, this to is on the way, but not just yet! prepare for weird **** to happen, we may have no choice but to enact radical ideas such as debt forgiveness on a gigantic scale

skooterblue2

Debt forgiveness?!??!?! You obviously have never met a wealthy person in your life. They dont forgive debt. The first thing that is done after debt forgiveness is (hypothetically) is to get those individuals/countries back into debt. We keep us rich by keeping them poor.

Wanderer78

skooterblue2 wrote:

Debt forgiveness?!??!?! You obviously have never met a wealthy person in your life. They dont forgive debt. The first thing that is done after debt forgiveness is (hypothetically) is to get those individuals/countries back into debt. We keep us rich by keeping them poor.

Debt is a lot more complex than just the wealth of individuals, we have created a network of highly complex debt based monetary systems globally, to the point I'm not even sure anybody truly fully understands, we ve essentially wrapped ourselves in a nice knot with it, but some commentators now believe, debt forgiveness is now an essential part of moving forward, or potentially face long term economic stagnation, our debt levels have probably become too great for us to sustain, particularly private debt levels. This problem has become far more complex than the wealth of the wealthy, I'm expecting critical financial institutions to start wobbling soon, as the amount of none performing loans increases, these institutions and our critical financial systems become severally unstable in such situations, expect trouble ahead. Will we see more bail outs, and other elusive acts such as bail ins, who knows, but I'm expecting this to get a little scary for a while, before things settle down again

Dunmoreroader

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/taoiseach-confirms-creation-of-new-munster-technological-university-1.4263235

tic toc tic toc tic toc :rolleyes:

Dunmoreroader

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/taoiseach-confirms-creation-of-new-munster-technological-university-1.4263235

tic toc tic toc tic toc :rolleyes:

Oh sorry, I just spotted someone else started a new thread earlier about this.
I'm tired, I think i'll go to bed.

imacman

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/taoiseach-confirms-creation-of-new-munster-technological-university-1.4263235

tic toc tic toc tic toc :rolleyes:

As expected ,the government rubber stamp for the MTU. The shambles of an application, massive financial difficulties and deep staff unrest doesn't seem matter once you can rebrand to a TU.

Dunmoreroader

"Perception is reality" - Lee Atwater

Tralee becomes a 'University town/city' before Waterford, Cork becomes a multi-university city.
Unless Shanahan can pull a rabbit out of a hat during government formation haggling, WIT should declare UDI as the Independent University of Waterford, no?

Harry Palmr

https://twitter.com/damienwlr/status/1265928872324972544?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

JaCrispy

Meanwhile, ITC and WIT languish in HE Division 3. Time to get the finger out.

91wx763

Harry Palmr wrote: »

https://twitter.com/damienwlr/status/1265928872324972544?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Not heard today's Deise AM yet but Damo did well yesterday, put the boot in......

He's certainly no Billy.

Harry Palmr

What was the topic?

91wx763

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What was the topic?

He was interviewing a Richard Hayes of WIT and Malcolm Byrne former TD in Wexford about how Tralee IT got upgraded while WIT and Carlow had a **** competition for 10 years.

fits

I don’t understand why they can’t just get on with it. Both institutes have strengths and weaknesses.

Harry Palmr

Teachers union is a problem I think

Muttley79

I wish our local politicians were together on this instead of playing political football with it and Carlow trying their best to get one over on waterford.we could become a huge university hub for students and especially overseas students if we had a university and airport up and running in waterford.it would bring massive economic benefits to Waterford and the south east.waterford needs a proper city planner that can go to the government with different ideas and lay it out that if the government spend x amount of money that they will get back x amount of money in revenue.its common sense.our problem is we are run by educated people that know nothing about street hustling.

Wanderer78

Muttley79 wrote:

I wish our local politicians were together on this instead of playing political football with it and Carlow trying their best to get one over on waterford.we could become a huge university hub for students and especially overseas students if we had a university and airport up and running in waterford.it would bring massive economic benefits to Waterford and the south east.waterford needs a proper city planner that can go to the government with different ideas and lay it out that if the government spend x amount of money that they will get back x amount of money in revenue.its common sense.our problem is we are run by educated people that know nothing about street hustling.

Street hustling?

fits

Muttley79 wrote: »

.....Carlow trying their best to get one over on waterford..

What makes you think that? Genuinely curious.

gobo99

fits wrote: »

What makes you think that? Genuinely curious.

Everyone's out to get waterford in the waterford forum.

imacman

fits wrote: »

What makes you think that? Genuinely curious.

Just read back through this thread over the last few years , there are insiders who has posted how toxic the relationship is between WIT and IT carlow. The president of Carlow was made president of WIT by the government in 2014 and he tried to force and MOU thought without support of the executive or staff , a MOU that made Carlow top dogs ( with the backing of the governemnt) .After a lot of strife he as moved on but the relationship was poisoned and completely distrustful .
Itcarlow management came into the merger negotiations with an attitude that they were the leaders because of the financial position of WIT at the time and their fininances where much better. Things have changed on that front in recent years as WIT has made a comeback in tern of students while Carlow have plateaued. But there is a mini series on how this merger and the twists and turns , back stabbing , distrust and war between the two institutes . So anyone who thinks a merger is something simple that can be done quickly is completely wrong.

azimuth17

gobo99 wrote: »

Everyone's out to get waterford in the waterford forum.

Anyone who thinks people in Waterford are neurotic, hasn't lived here over the past ten years.

invara

Dublin and Cork back in Waterford trying to destroy our institutions- sad that we are still having this discussion. From the people who brought you University Hospital Waterford fleeced by the Cork hospitals. The TU is an absolute turkey designed to tie this region up in ribbons while Cork and Dublin steal our young people. It has worked because our politicians have not stood up for WIT in the past, not stood up for the people of Waterford. Many have lost their jobs because they confused their loyalties- Coffey, Conway, Deasy, Kehoe, Deering to name but a few.

The Government had refused to fund any expansion in WIT, no new courses, no new buildings while ditching vast sums of money into their universities. Meanwhile our economy never recovered and was probably in recession before COVID hit.

If WIT and Carlow merge as desired, with no money for growth both will be diminished by the merger. Either WIT eats Carlow and grows a bit slowly over time, or Carlow eats WIT and there is no growth as we get further away from having university services (like research and spin off companies etc...). This is not WIT management versus Carlow management, knocking heads will not work. No human can lead Carlow or Waterford and ethically discharge their duty, and not hold the line against the merger until it is properly resourced. Five WIT leaders lost their careers as Dublin intervened to force the sell out the young and future of this region.

Two things need to happen. This caretaker Government needs to be closed down. Waterford politicians need to be very clear on their loyality to Waterford. The Cork TDs have no divided loyalities, Martin and Covney found common cause in destroying IT Tralee and bringing home the bacon to Cork. Lets not feed them WIT and IT Carlow too.

azimuth17

Waterford can look back at the FG/Lab government of 2011 to 2016 and remember that FG had promised a university here since 2008. It is tragic to reflect that two south east politicians, Phil Hogan and Brendan Howlin who had the giving of university designation to WIT during that government failed to do so for constituency political reasons. The same two could have had cardiology services at UHW easily put in place but seemed instead to be content to allow any service be moved out of Waterford that they could, even were the service was to the benefit of their own constituents, or prevent any service development in Waterford when they could. Its maddening. Sense has prevailed with regional political unity on cardiology at UHW. WIT is on the doorstep of every county in the region, even the southern tip of county Carlow is only 20 miles away. County Kilkenny is effectively next door, county Wexford is six or seven miles by ferry and 13 miles by road, county Tipp is 14 miles away. Road access is excellent. Thousands of kids from each of those counties have been educated in WIT. It now looks like our own politicians will combine to make a balls of WIT and third level education in the south east. For what?

JaCrispy

imacman wrote: »

Just read back through this thread over the last few years , there are insiders who has posted how toxic the relationship is between WIT and IT carlow. The president of Carlow was made president of WIT by the government in 2014 and he tried to force and MOU thought without support of the executive or staff , a MOU that made Carlow top dogs ( with the backing of the governemnt) .After a lot of strife he as moved on but the relationship was poisoned and completely distrustful .
Itcarlow management came into the merger negotiations with an attitude that they were the leaders because of the financial position of WIT at the time and their fininances where much better. Things have changed on that front in recent years as WIT has made a comeback in tern of students while Carlow have plateaued. But there is a mini series on how this merger and the twists and turns , back stabbing , distrust and war between the two institutes . So anyone who thinks a merger is something simple that can be done quickly is completely wrong.

I've seen so much hearsay and whataboutery in a post here in such a long time. Lets face facts, WIT will never ever become a University without becoming a TU first, the legislation states that they can only become a TU with a merger. Time to get on with the merger before both colleges lose thousands of students to Division 1 and Division 2 colleges. Divisive commentaries and opinions such as yours help nobody.

imacman

JaCrispy wrote: »

I've seen so much hearsay and whataboutery in a post here in such a long time. Lets face facts, WIT will never ever become a University without becoming a TU first, the legislation states that they can only become a TU with a merger. Time to get on with the merger before both colleges lose thousands of students to Division 1 and Division 2 colleges. Divisive commentaries and opinions such as yours help nobody.

Yea sure lets roll over let ourselves be bullied and let Carlow run the thing, I suppose another government humiliation for Waterford makes no difference when there has been so many before.

imacman

I find it interesting that people are buying into the whole idea of the MTU , their application last year was a shambles (I actually read the document here is the link MTU doc.) The international panel who reviewed their application had very little positive to say about it and asked lots of hard questions about the criterian and vision.They set down a set of things to needed to be done and the government gave them six months to do them . THe HEA actually recommended a 2 to 3 year process as they felt the timescale was unrealistic.
Well guess what ,the international panel has disappeared as well as the "strenuous academic criteria" to reach TU status . The government got out their big old rubber stamp and forced it through.
So they are still left with ITTralee a financial basket case and barely viable college running on last chance loans from the government. It only still exists because its politically unpalatable to shut it down.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/it-tralee-overstaffed-and-has-significant-money-issues-report-1.3767234

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/government-gives-5m-in-emergency-funding-to-keep-it-tralee-afloat-1.4021249


Also their is massive staff unrest down there as this story from the Examiner their morning shows.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/tui-wants-cit-and-it-tralee-staff-issues-resolved-before-munster-technological-university-operational-1002253.html

And with the coming recession thet 90 million that was recommended for the TU projects will not doubt get watered down or disappear altogether. I think if WIT moves forward with the TU they will thrown into an under funded fudge with Carlow which will actually leave both institutions less effective that they are a the moment.

1 sheep2

Muttley79 wrote: »

We could become a huge university hub for students and especially overseas students if we had a university and airport up and running in waterford.

The sheer naivety of this.

fits

imacman wrote: »

Yea sure lets roll over let ourselves be bullied and let Carlow run the thing, I suppose another government humiliation for Waterford makes no difference when there has been so many before.

I don’t think there is any question of Carlow running it but there is a fear in both institutes of one swallowing the other. I don’t know much about the merger politics but my very uninformed impression is that WIT is stronger on research, IT Carlow better on financial management and attracting international students. Surely they are complementary strengths.

Pablo Escobar

invara wrote: »

Dublin and Cork back in Waterford trying to destroy our institutions- sad that we are still having this discussion. From the people who brought you University Hospital Waterford fleeced by the Cork hospitals. The TU is an absolute turkey designed to tie this region up in ribbons while Cork and Dublin steal our young people. It has worked because our politicians have not stood up for WIT in the past, not stood up for the people of Waterford. Many have lost their jobs because they confused their loyalties- Coffey, Conway, Deasy, Kehoe, Deering to name but a few.

The Government had refused to fund any expansion in WIT, no new courses, no new buildings while ditching vast sums of money into their universities. Meanwhile our economy never recovered and was probably in recession before COVID hit.

If WIT and Carlow merge as desired, with no money for growth both will be diminished by the merger. Either WIT eats Carlow and grows a bit slowly over time, or Carlow eats WIT and there is no growth as we get further away from having university services (like research and spin off companies etc...). This is not WIT management versus Carlow management, knocking heads will not work. No human can lead Carlow or Waterford and ethically discharge their duty, and not hold the line against the merger until it is properly resourced. Five WIT leaders lost their careers as Dublin intervened to force the sell out the young and future of this region.

Two things need to happen. This caretaker Government needs to be closed down. Waterford politicians need to be very clear on their loyality to Waterford. The Cork TDs have no divided loyalities, Martin and Covney found common cause in destroying IT Tralee and bringing home the bacon to Cork. Lets not feed them WIT and IT Carlow too.

The TD's just announced it, the work was done by the institutions (CIT & IT Tralee) who have been on the same page for years and years. It was up to WIT & IT Carlow to get this done. I know people involved in making this happen in CIT, and believe me, this wasn't a quick fix. Reading that WIT & IT Carlow have not been working towards this leads me to believe that this is years away from when they actually start taking it seriously. It's not a rubber stamp with a wink from a TD along with a name change as has been alluded to here.

imacman

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

The TD's just announced it, the work was done by the institutions (CIT & IT Tralee) who have been on the same page for years and years. It was up to WIT & IT Carlow to get this done. I know people involved in making this happen in CIT, and believe me, this wasn't a quick fix. Reading that WIT & IT Carlow have not been working towards this leads me to believe that this is years away from when they actually start taking it seriously. It's not a rubber stamp with a wink from a TD along with a name change as has been alluded to here.

This is a complete rubber stamp job , have you read the international panels reservations about the academic criteria financial position and the overall vision of the project.None of which has been fixed in the last six months , this is just a politically motivated rebrand job that plays well with voters and industry but in reality the TU emperor has no clothes.