Waterford University discussion

Teebor15

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Tis all interwined believe it or not, was only talking to a local business owner about all this recently, and both of us came to the same conclusion, why isn't any local journalist writing about all of this stuff!

I'd say he only agreed with you to get rid of you!!:D:D:D

mart 23

Limerick IT and Athlone IT expect to be a joint TU by september of next year.

914

mart 23 wrote: »

Limerick IT and Athlone IT expect to be a joint TU by september of next year.

As I have always said, every IoT is going to be bumped to a TU, so how does that set the South East apart from any other region.

While our representivities will say they have delivered a University for Waterford and the South East.

All it will be is a name. TU's will not receive the same level of funding as UL, UCC, DCU etc so how does becoming a TU improve what we currently have in the South East

Five Eighth

Found nothing wrong with the Regional Technical College or Institute of Technology designation. They filled a role within their regions readying people for the workplace. Realistically they cannot compete head-to-head with the established universities. There is no comparison in the funds available to IOTs and the Unis. Also, there is often a difference in emphasis when covering similar areas, for example, with engineering degrees, the IOTs focus much more on the practical than the universities. In fact, the IOT's still provide apprenticeship education.

If Waterford wants university status, then they should canvas for Waterford University - fully funded offering all the courses one would expect to find in a university, no strings attached.

Wanderer78

Aquos76 wrote:

As I’ve said previously, I have absolutely no issue with you our your views and whether I agree or disagree with them is irrelevant, my issue is when it takes threads of topic. It has been suggested to you on numerous occasions within different threats to start a new thread on a particular topic if you want to keep a conversation going.

But they are not off topic, it's very important to try understand the complexities of these social issues, everything is intertwined and interconnected, and can be linked back to common failures, we don't live in a black and white world, if you're wondering why we 're going down the road of yellow pack uni and yellow pack solutions to our critical social issues, it all can be linked to issues such as inequality and the failure of wealth distribution, with little or no wealth tax policies in place, and people are wondering why we end up with yellow pack solutions! A major developer has just wondered into town with a bag of credit, and has just begun probably the largest development boom in the region, does any of this sound familiar to people, I.e. a credit fueled building boom!

...and as always, people are free to press the ignore button, if my or any other posters views are truly bothering them that much, lifes really too short for that!

CramCycle

914 wrote: »

I'm not even bothered about the name university. If WIT was allowed to come under the HEA allowing them to provide for funding as the same level as other Universities that would do.

Look at MIT in the states. I'm not saying we become like MIT, but having proper funding and WIT to reach the levels of UL UCC etc.....

I don't see anywhere that the TU's can applying for the required level of funding so have no idea how this is going to be more of a benefit as to what we currently have in south east

914 wrote: »

As I have always said, every IoT is going to be bumped to a TU, so how does that set the South East apart from any other region.

While our representivities will say they have delivered a University for Waterford and the South East.

All it will be is a name. TU's will not receive the same level of funding as UL, UCC, DCU etc so how does becoming a TU improve what we currently have in the South East

And thats pretty much it, and it could be achieved with ease in the Oireachtas. The TU idea is beyond stupid as its little more than a consolidation and name change. If it were a business, investors would look in and think they are just trying to keep the wolves from the door.

Adapt the IoT legislation to give them the opportunity to follow the model available to Universitys, and there you go, job done.

imacman

Five Eighth wrote: »

If Waterford wants university status, then they should canvas for Waterford University - fully funded offering all the courses one would expect to find in a university, no strings attached.

Yea well we tried that for 40 years and what we ended up with is this TU/merger. Waterford didn't get a university over that period of time because we never had a politician with the power to pull it over the line. Martin Cullen tried his best 15 years ago but it didn't happen because of resistance from the university sector.

If Waterford had a Taoiseach, Tanaiste or top level minister in that over the last few decades we would have a well established university now . Sad fact is Political pull matters and Waterford has never had any and its situation which continues to this day

imacman

This is the kind of thing Waterford politicians need to start making noise about
https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/174760/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE
Carlow are on on the way to build the TU headquarters on their campus , will that bother any of out politicians or will they roll over and let the smaller institute and market town take the HQ away from the only city in the region. The way this process has gone over the last number of years I have no doubt that the TU HQ will end up in Carlow . It will be another in a long line of humiliations for Waterford

914

imacman wrote: »

This is the kind of thing Waterford politicians need to start making noise about
https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/174760/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE
Carlow are on on the way to build the TU headquarters on their campus , will that bother any of out politicians or will they roll over and let the smaller institute and market town take the HQ away from the only city in the region. The way this process has gone over the last number of years I have no doubt that the TU HQ will end up in Carlow . It will be another in a long line of humiliations for Waterford

Sure will, HQ will be in Carlow and business school will be moved to Kilkenny, while our muppets pat themselves on the back for delivering a "University".

JimWinters

imacman wrote: »

This is the kind of thing Waterford politicians need to start making noise about
https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/174760/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE
Carlow are on on the way to build the TU headquarters on their campus , will that bother any of out politicians or will they roll over and let the smaller institute and market town take the HQ away from the only city in the region. The way this process has gone over the last number of years I have no doubt that the TU HQ will end up in Carlow . It will be another in a long line of humiliations for Waterford

Smart move from Carlow. They have money in the bank to build a large administration building. When the time comes to choose a TUHQ they’ll say they have a lovely admin building that’s perfect for it & won’t require funding. It’ll be a no-brainer for the Dept of Education.

Smart move Carlow = Waterford’s loss. Loss of jobs, loss of power, loss of autonomy. We’ll become the satellite campus!

imacman

JimWinters wrote: »

Smart move from Carlow. They have money in the bank to build a large administration building. When the time comes to choose a TUHQ they’ll say they have a lovely admin building that’s perfect for it & won’t require funding. It’ll be a no-brainer for the Dept of Education.

Smart move Carlow = Waterford’s loss. Loss of jobs, loss of power, loss of autonomy. We’ll become the satellite campus!

Yea its sad to watch it play out this way but that's what's is going to happen . And of course no Waterford politicians will object. We will be told that its a good decision for the region and Waterford needs to a team player.

914

imacman wrote: »

Yea its sad to watch it play out this way but that's what's is going to happen . And of course no Waterford politicians will object. We will be told that its a good decision for the region and Waterford needs to a team player.

Yep and in a few years they will be organising marches down the Quay protesting about schools in WIT being taken out of Waterford.

Just like Waterford "University" Hospital

invara

Worth reading Richard Finnegan's latest blog post:
https://finneganwaterford.wordpress.com/2020/11/26/to-seize-north-quays-moment-waterford-now-needs-to-raise-its-university-sights/

Some excellent points made about the TU fudge... including the video of the original masterplan for Carriganore, one of the many prior attempts to turn the region's fortunes around.

Harry Palmr

Watching that video back is rather tragic. Greenway carpark instead of cutting edge R&D

azimuth17

invara wrote: »

Worth reading Richard Finnegan's latest blog post:
https://finneganwaterford.wordpress.com/2020/11/26/to-seize-north-quays-moment-waterford-now-needs-to-raise-its-university-sights/

Some excellent points made about the TU fudge... including the video of the original masterplan for Carriganore, one of the many prior attempts to turn the region's fortunes around.

This makes me want to hit something or kick something. Shocking political indictment of FG and FF. Even SF and Greens have bought into this bastardised fiasco. Senator Cummins , who attended UL, is pushing TUSE as the great white hope. Mr OCathasaigh is too busy with his "save the planet agenda" to save his city. His feet should be held to the fire on this. Mr. Cullinane is SF policy personified and probably believes his base doesn't buy into a university agenda anyway. there must be a way out of this impasse. The merger of equals being pushed by the HEA and Dept of Further Education is a shameful lie. Shanahan is the only one who has spoken out. The rest are party hacks and political bag men. Its sick making.

imacman

azimuth17 wrote: »

This makes me want to hit something or kick something. Shocking political indictment of FG and FF. Even SF and Greens have bought into this bastardised fiasco. Senator Cummins , who attended UL, is pushing TUSE as the great white hope. Mr OCathasaigh is too busy with his "save the planet agenda" to save his city. His feet should be held to the fire on this. Mr. Cullinane is SF policy personified and probably believes his base doesn't buy into a university agenda anyway. there must be a way out of this impasse. The merger of equals being pushed by the HEA and Dept of Further Education is a shameful lie. Shanahan is the only one who has spoken out. The rest are party hacks and political bag men. Its sick making.

Yea it is sickening and inevitable with a Carlow HQ and Carlow in most of the leadership positions. After talking to some staff in WIT there is zero enthusim in amongst staff for this merger. The current process under Tom Boland is seen a just a box ticking exercise and they feel powerless and fearful for the future. None of the staff I talked to was looking forward to any improvements under the merger and worried about the Carlow micromanagement culture being forced on them

Dum_Dum

azimuth17 wrote: »

This makes me want to hit something or kick something. Shocking political indictment of FG and FF. Even SF and Greens have bought into this bastardised fiasco. Senator Cummins , who attended UL, is pushing TUSE as the great white hope. Mr OCathasaigh is too busy with his "save the planet agenda" to save his city. His feet should be held to the fire on this. Mr. Cullinane is SF policy personified and probably believes his base doesn't buy into a university agenda anyway. there must be a way out of this impasse. The merger of equals being pushed by the HEA and Dept of Further Education is a shameful lie. Shanahan is the only one who has spoken out. The rest are party hacks and political bag men. Its sick making.

It seems in every General Election in Waterford, we're always the turkeys and it's always Christmas.

Dunmoreroader

So we need to make it the No 1 issue for Waterford politicians; pull out of the TUSE merger and seek University status for WIT independently.
The Taoiseach had said while in opposition, I.T.'s should not have to merge to seek University status.

JimWinters

I think it’s time we write to our TDs and John Cummins to remind them this will be their legacy. They will be remembered as the politicians who ruined WIT and Waterford’s aspirations for a full university.

Christy Browne

JimWinters wrote: »

I think it’s time we write to our TDs and John Cummins to remind them this will be their legacy. They will be remembered as the politicians who ruined WIT and Waterford’s aspirations for a full university.

I’ve just done this and I suggest you all do the same. This merger could undo decades of campaigning with the stroke of a pen. There is no chance of a University College Waterford in the next 100 years if we’re handcuffed to IT Carlow.

Harry Palmr

Is the TUSE a legal body to which WIT has signed an agreement on.

914

JimWinters wrote: »

I think it’s time we write to our TDs and John Cummins to remind them this will be their legacy. They will be remembered as the politicians who ruined WIT and Waterford’s aspirations for a full university.

I have also done this. The responses have been shocking with the exception of Matt Shanahan

somahoney74

imacman wrote: »

Yea it is sickening and inevitable with a Carlow HQ and Carlow in most of the leadership positions. After talking to some staff in WIT there is zero enthusim in amongst staff for this merger. The current process under Tom Boland is seen a just a box ticking exercise and they feel powerless and fearful for the future. None of the staff I talked to was looking forward to any improvements under the merger and worried about the Carlow micromanagement culture being forced on them

I think your talking rubbish to be honest. A Carlow HQ won't happen. We all want a UW, unfortunately it's just not going to happen.

imacman

somahoney74 wrote: »

I think your talking rubbish to be honest. A Carlow HQ won't happen. We all want a UW, unfortunately it's just not going to happen.

Why are they building a massive new administration building then

somahoney74

imacman wrote: »

Why are they building a massive new administration building then

That's a message I've sent to DC our TD

Hi David, have just been catching up on the latest news with the TUSE. As you seem to be a big supporter of it, remember the Waterford public will hold you to account if WIT is downgraded, or schools of business are removed from Waterford if the merger goes ahead. Regards xxxx

vriesmays

Why does a technical university need a school of business.

JimWinters

vriesmays wrote: »

Why does a technical university need a school of business.

A “Technical” University wouldn’t usually have Arts, Humanities, Business, Nursing or Education. A TU doesn’t suit WIT, you’re right...

They’re not going to get rid of those schools but they will centralise the location of schools and rationalise courses across the campuses...

imacman

vriesmays wrote: »

Why does a technical university need a school of business.

Humanities is the largest academic school in WIT with the most students and staff . Its 5 times the size of engineering school.

imacman

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Is the TUSE a legal body to which WIT has signed an agreement on.

No it doesn't become legaly binding till its been ratified by the minister and the existing ITs are legally dissolved . This wont happen until the 1st of January 2022 at the earliest.
In 2021 we have to go through the charade of the international panel coming to visit to see if we reach the metrics to become a TU. Of course that doesn't really matter as when the panel decided MTU was a shambles with no vision or plan the minister rubber stamped it anyway after 6 months of token changes .They also never invited the panel back to check if they had improved and never engaged with the staff unions which is why they will be in the labour court next year. But its all ok because they have the magical university name over the door which is the solution to all problems !!!!

Its actually amazes me how little the proposed TUs have to do with education and are just barefaced political strokes that nobody is willing to call out.

Harry Palmr

Worth highlighting this

https://twitter.com/PMBRC_WIT/status/1334531191731576832