Waterford University discussion

Rustyman101

another party hack along with Mary, always party first , constituents last, happy distribute crumbs !

Harry Palmr

He kept banging on about Carraganore which is grand but yes the actual spend is a pittance in third level terms. It certainly looks like the Glass site is the announcement. I hope they (dept of ed) used thier imagination and at least tried to lease the site rather than buy it (which would tie up significant funds that could be spent more productively).

SeanieW1977

914 wrote: »

John Cummins today praising how the government have granted major funding since 2008, to the tune of €52 million between both WIT and ITCarlow

He would not be drawn in that only equates to €2.5 million per year per campus. Shocking!

Stand to be corrected but Carlow got 36-40m of that if that is structural funding

Harry Palmr

If so that puts WIT's impoverishment into context.

azimuth17

Harry Palmr wrote: »

If so that puts WIT's impoverishment into context.

€52m which divided 30/22 approx in Carlow's favour. WIT cash was to finish Carriganore after it was stopped for a long time on government orders and TSSG/Arc Labs. The important point to remember is that no money has been spent on teaching space at WIT since the Cork Road Humanities building was finished 2007. Go to UL,UCD or UCC or any Irish university and ask yourself how much was spent on new buildings in those places in the past 15 years. That's the cash that matters. WIT has been starved by Fine Gael.

SeanieW1977

Harry Palmr wrote: »

If so that puts WIT's impoverishment into context.

Yep, plenty wrote about it in last few months.

The funding since the project has been mooted is 50:50 treating the campuses as equals

Which they are not, a ratio of about 66:33 is about right

So the funding is and always has been totally disproportionate.

Cummins got away with that one

Wanderer78

Harry Palmr wrote:

He kept banging on about Carraganore which is grand but yes the actual spend is a pittance in third level terms. It certainly looks like the Glass site is the announcement. I hope they (dept of ed) used thier imagination and at least tried to lease the site rather than buy it (which would tie up significant funds that could be spent more productively).

I'd rather see them buy it to be honest, another state asset then

Harry Palmr

Howlin howling on Deise Today. Embarrassing frankly

91wx763

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Howlin howling on Deise Today. Embarrassing frankly

And got a well deserved kicking. "UTR" is on now apologiseing for the ex wife.

invara

Howlin's interview showed the public what was has actually been going on behind the scenes.

He was one of the four most powerful people in Ireland between 2011-2016 during which time, his greatest political achievement was stopping (along with Phil Hogan) a full university emerge in his region. It was in the FG manifesto (Enda's pledge), and became a study of a multi-campus TU in the programme for Govt. that today on WLR he revealed as his stroke.

His position on SE Radio is that Wexford needs an equal campus. In his 2011-16 Goverment he invested to bulk up Carlow and starve Waterford to make that a possibility. His sole investment idea for our region was a field in Wexford for a new campus, he greenlit the €1bn DIT Grangegorman campus and made sure that it was commenced.

In taking this approach, he castigated his people to a further decade in the economic wilderness. His brand of a fair share for my county fails to take account that universities are solomon's baby....... he is trying to invent a model of university that is fully discredited, and has failed where tried (in Ireland DIT/UCD/Tipp Inst and beyond Ulster/Finland/Spain/France).

Harry Palmr

https://www.wlrfm.com/deise-today/

Brendan Howlin interview starts at 4 minutes in first hour of show.

As mentioned by invara above he approaches this on the basis that funding is endless thus allowing Wexford full "parity of esteem" - along with Kilkenny presumably - but we all know perfectly well the Dept will only have the money to focus upon Waterford and Carlow with any meaning. And of course even that is me being wildly optimistic when you see this and understand just how badly we've been served.

Damien points out the implied nonsense in this position - the pot is finite we cannot allow funding to dribble away to satellite
campus scattered about the region.

It's as if because of UHW Wexford, Kilkenny and Carlow should also have a same level hospital. Centers of excellence and the development of a location with genuine gravitas is vital or why bother?

azimuth17

Harry Palmr wrote: »

https://www.wlrfm.com/deise-today/

Brendan Howlin interview starts at 4 minutes in first hour of show.

As mentioned by invara above he approaches this on the basis that funding is endless thus allowing Wexford full "parity of esteem" - along with Kilkenny presumably - but we all know perfectly well the Dept will only have the money to focus upon Waterford and Carlow with any meaning. And of course even that is me being wildly optimistic when you see this and understand just how badly we've been served.

Damien points out the implied nonsense in this position - the pot is finite we cannot allow funding to dribble away to satellite
campus scattered about the region.

It's as if because of UHW Wexford, Kilkenny and Carlow should also have a same level hospital. Centers of excellence and the development of a location with genuine gravitas is vital or why bother?

A piece by David Looby in Wexford People 10th Nov 2015 says it all

"As part of the new plans for the hospital, up to 200 trainee nurses, physiotherapists and doctors will be taught at the hospital, which is expected to gain university status in spring, putting it more on a par with University Hospital Waterford."

25 hospital consultants in Wexford General 125 in UHW. How long would it take to equalise consultants and support. UNI is the same. Put a facility in Wexford by all means but dont expect magic beans.

Harry Palmr

Ludicrous and maddening isn't it?

Rustyman101

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Ludicrous and maddening isn't it?

you cant blame people for looking for a slice of the pie, only thing with this is by the time this pie is shared all will be still wanting ! remember big phil,Waterford has to learn to share, was delighted to see him fall, JPP next please....Waterford the only city that has to share, look at the CUH V UHW another example of WD sharing ! also the fact that all politics are local does untold damage nationally, with gombeen men & women running the show, no national coherent strategy.

Dunmoreroader

Rustyman101 wrote: »

you cant blame people for looking for a slice of the pie, only thing with this is by the time this pie is shared all will be still wanting ! remember big phil,Waterford has to learn to share, was delighted to see him fall, JPP next please....Waterford the only city that has to share, look at the CUH V UHW another example of WD sharing ! also the fact that all politics are local does untold damage nationally, with gombeen men & women running the show, no national coherent strategy.

Well funnily enough, there is supposed to be a national coherent strategy, it's called the Ireland 2040: National Planning Framework which supposedly raises Waterford up to be targeted for growth to help the Southeast catch up with wealthier regions. Surprisingly, it seems to have been forgotten by our esteemed South-eastern elder lemon Deputy Howlin. Who could have known! :rolleyes:

Dunmoreroader

So as I understand it, the decision on where to locate the HQ will be taken by the board of TUSEI whenever that is formed.
Q1: When is it to be formed?
Q2: Who appoints the board members and what are the criteria for suitably appointees?
This is where the sleight of hand will happen if the fix is in between El Presidente Tom Boland and The Right Honourable Minister Harris, no?

friendlyfun

As far as I'm concerned it's either Waterford as the HQ or we can forget about it.

914

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

So as I understand it, the decision on where to locate the HQ will be taken by the board of TUSEI whenever that is formed.
Q1: When is it to be formed?
Q2: Who appoints the board members and what are the criteria for suitably appointees?
This is where the sleight of hand will happen if the fix is in between El Presidente Tom Boland and The Right Honourable Minister Harris, no?

Q1 I would guess the board isn't formed untill the application has been successful.

Q2 Not a notion, presume is has to be elected some how or is it by appointment, either or, waterford would not have the clout to have a strong representation, kk carlow and we'd will all support each other

Harry Palmr

It's 4 v 1 or 3 v 1. Tipp have hardly got a mention through this, so maybe they are effectively in Limerick's sphere of influence now.

Christy Browne

The amalgamation of North and South Tipp has been a disaster for the South East. Waterford draws massively from the likes of Carrick and Clonmel but they’re being pushed towards Limerick. The fact that LIT have a campus in Clonmel is galling.

Unfortunately the SE is sandwiched between Cork, Limerick and Dublin and each of them want to carve us up and take their piece. Keeping us fighting for crumbs between ourselves allows that to happen.

smellyoldboot

friendlyfun wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned it's either Waterford as the HQ or we can forget about it.

This is the sleight of hand trick that has been played to perfection. In my opinion there was never any intention of locating the HQ anywhere else but the TU is such a **** deal for Waterford, a little sideshow has been created with the HQ fiasco so we will be offered the HQ and sign on the dotted line and the plans will roll through.

What should be happening is just saying Fcuk you and your clown college proposal, we want nothing to do with it.

azimuth17

smellyoldboot wrote: »

This is the sleight of hand trick that has been played to perfection. In my opinion there was never any intention of locating the HQ anywhere else but the TU is such a **** deal for Waterford, a little sideshow has been created with the HQ fiasco so we will be offered the HQ and sign on the dotted line and the plans will roll through.

What should be happening is just saying Fcuk you and your clown college proposal, we want nothing to do with it.

While I might not be as graphic with the language, I'd say many people can understand the sentiment.

914

smellyoldboot wrote: »

This is the sleight of hand trick that has been played to perfection. In my opinion there was never any intention of locating the HQ anywhere else but the TU is such a **** deal for Waterford, a little sideshow has been created with the HQ fiasco so we will be offered the HQ and sign on the dotted line and the plans will roll through.

What should be happening is just saying Fcuk you and your clown college proposal, we want nothing to do with it.

I fully agree but can you imagine WIT's faith if they pulled the plug. Part of me feels there are being bullied into this.

Pulling the plug would mean little to zero investment.

That said we constantly hear for the TU to work it needs the required funding, what happens if the TU goes ahead and it doesn't get the required funding, can we terminate the arrangement, can gov guarantee funding before the approval.

It's hard to see us getting the required funding as every other IoT becoming a TU will be looking for similar funding and if this happens full Uni's will be looking for an increase, and I for one can not see the government massively increasing the higher education fund.

Dangling carrot's is all that will happen

Harry Palmr

The numbers are scary when you look at the demands that need to be made upon the exchequer for appropriate funding across the range of TU's. 200m for Waterford alone in fairly short order. I have no idea where the money is coming from. Has there been any announcements about dept budget jumping by a billion or more for 3rd level?

smellyoldboot

They may shake the magic money tree they found for PUP and employer subsidies this year, not to mention the bottomless budget the national (Dublin) childrens hospital seems to have been awarded.

Wanderer78

smellyoldboot wrote:

They may shake the magic money tree they found for PUP and employer subsidies this year, not to mention the bottomless budget the national (Dublin) childrens hospital seems to have been awarded.

Running continuous deficits are fine, as long as the debts are regularly serviced and serviceable, debt only truly becomes a problem when it's not serviceable. deficits are only the public entity of the money supply, by not having them, forces the money supply into the private sector which does so via credit creation, and we all know what happens if we go down that road, I.e. 08, so plough on with borrowing

SeanieW1977

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I will just leave this here...

https://twitter.com/thesaturdayman/status/1357065947920674820?s=21

Infairness this fella makes a bit of noise at times, but he’s been spot on all along through this https://finneganwaterford.wordpress.com/2020/06/25/university-waterford/ he wrote bout it nearly a year ago

If the Carlow site is the HQ then what’s going on in crystal? A car park?

I’d say John cummins rang Dublin for a dig out. I Don’t buy any of the BS around the crystal site - plans for what’s going on it and level of investment needs to be abundantly clear.

imacman

invara wrote: »

Howlin's interview showed the public what was has actually been going on behind the scenes.

He was one of the four most powerful people in Ireland between 2011-2016 during which time, his greatest political achievement was stopping (along with Phil Hogan) a full university emerge in his region. It was in the FG manifesto (Enda's pledge), and became a study of a multi-campus TU in the programme for Govt. that today on WLR he revealed as his stroke.

His position on SE Radio is that Wexford needs an equal campus. In his 2011-16 Goverment he invested to bulk up Carlow and starve Waterford to make that a possibility. His sole investment idea for our region was a field in Wexford for a new campus, he greenlit the €1bn DIT Grangegorman campus and made sure that it was commenced.

In taking this approach, he castigated his people to a further decade in the economic wilderness. His brand of a fair share for my county fails to take account that universities are solomon's baby....... he is trying to invent a model of university that is fully discredited, and has failed where tried (in Ireland DIT/UCD/Tipp Inst and beyond Ulster/Finland/Spain/France).

What annoyed me about the interview was Damien going on about the cork merger and what happened there. What he should have asked Howlin was why does Wexford need a campus , with both WIT and Carlow less than an hour's travel from Wexford why divert funding from those major campuses to put a small one in Wexford.

IT Carlow have been dodging the Wexford campus questions from Wexford local reps for years and the reason is they do to want to invest in Wexford as the campus they already have doesn't stack up when it comes to student numbers and it's not financially viable. They want to invest in Carlow and I dont blame them.

The reality is the only reason build a campus in Wexford or Kilkenny is parish pump politics. Small campuses don't work and this has been shown over and over again.Students want the big campus experience with the sports , clubs and general critical mass of services and facilities you get in a large campus .

Harry Palmr

A one point when Howlin was taking offence he talked of wexford and the M11 corridor and my immune thought was "please feel free to look north". They are desperate to get on coattails.

invara

Great and depressing to hear Des Griffin on DT today. The long list of politicians who said one thing and did another. Reminding everyone how close the region got in 2011 before the disasterous intervention of Howlin and Hogan.