Waterford University discussion

dayshah

Féach anseo for a report and various submissions.

http://www.hea.ie/en/node/1415

jmcc

dayshah wrote: »

Féach anseo for a report and various submissions.

http://www.hea.ie/en/node/1415

Ah feck! McCann't hasn't objected already?

Then again there's an awful lot of input there that's not from the SE.

Regards...jmcc

dayshah

jmcc wrote: »

Ah feck! McCann't hasn't objected already?

Then again there's an awful lot of input there that's not from the SE.

Regards...jmcc

I don't think McCann ever objected to a WIT project. I wish he objected to Carriganore though

This is for all the ITs, but most submissions seem related to WIT. If we want a university we would need at least one national lobby group (whether IBEC, ICTU, or anything else) to support it at a national level. We can all tell ourselves in Waterford how good it would be for us, but we've totally failed to convince anyone else that its a good idea. (Except Ed Walsh apparently)

O Riain

People were wondering whether this would lead to a flood of Technological Universtities. I never thought it would, One of the criteria is

An institution large enough to be comparable with existing universities in Ireland;

This alone surely knocks every I.T. out of contention asside from cork,wit and dit.

In fact in the detailed report it states

Scale
The Hunt report notes a UK threshold of 4000 FTE with 3000 FTE at degree level.
Given the size of the existing universities together with the range of TU functions, this
would seem too small for a TU. A size of at least 10,000 students would seem closer to
the mark. Once Level 6-7 enrolments are taken out of a TU of 10,000 that would leave
an institution little or no bigger than the smallest existing university. Student
numbers, rather than FTE, are relevant here given the Hunt report’s argument about
enhancing the element of equivalence between full-time and part-time students. But
exactly where a size threshold should fall will always be debatable and it would be
wise not to be prescriptive or rigid in this matter. Population density varies across
the country, future population size cannot be known with precision, and all TU
benchmarks must be able to stand the tests of time and universal applicability across
the country. In addition, any benchmarks in relation to scale are affected by the
growth of non-standard enrolments and international student numbers, which are
both difficult to forecast, especially the latter.

WIT and Cork I.T. are the only I.T's outside of dublin with student populations big enough for this. I wonder if institutes teaming up, like L.I.T have done with Tipperary Institute counts towards this?

letsbet

Amazing how the new director (I refuse to use the word president) was in the paper today in a list of high earners before we've been officially told that he has the job. Why tell the staff first eh!

dayshah

Just for anyone who might still be deluding themselves that there might be some funding hidden away somewhere that might make upgrading WIT meaningful, here is a link to Dept Educations Comprehensive Review of Expenditure.

Unsurprisingly, there is no mention of the fairy godmother having waived her magic wand to isolate Waterford from the cuts agenda.

tom traubert

Apparently the staff of I.T. Carlow are to be addressed tomorrow by Ruaidhrí Neavyn.

The rumour mill in Carlow has it that he is to jointly head up both W.I.T. and I.T. Carlow, the carrot being that it is the possible route to the formation of some form of Technological University of the South East.

The governing body of W.I.T. are believed to be opposed to the proposal.

I stress again my earlier use of the phrase "the rumour mill has it".

dayshah

I really don't see any benefit in merging with an institution an hours drive away.

tom traubert

dayshah wrote: »

I really don't see any benefit in merging with an institution an hours drive away.

I wouldn't be qualified to have an opinion worth airing on a merger to be truthful.

Anyways, further to my earlier post Dr. Neavyn and the chair of the governing body of I.T.C. addressed staff.

It appears that the Carlow directors post will be advertised, but only for an 18 month fixed contract. Also Dr. N made further reference to the aspirations to have a Tech Uni of the South East. What I wasn't told was whether these aspirations were his own or someone elses.

It'll keep the rumour mill grinding away a while yet no doubt.

Sully

THE SOUTHEAST is set to win its long battle for university status, despite strong opposition from some university presidents and senior figures in the Higher Education Authority.

Sources say approval for a technological university of the southeast is now “inevitable” as it has strong support from several senior Cabinet figures, including Minister for the Environment Phil Hogan and Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform Brendan Howlin.

Mr Hogan and Mr Howlin represent Kilkenny and Wexford respectively in the Dáil.

The process, which will see the institutes of technology in Waterford and Carlow transformed into a technological university, begins next month when Minister for Education Ruairí Quinn agrees new authority rules governing the establishment of a technological university.

This will open the way for the institutes of technology to apply for technological university status.

Approval for a technological university of Dublin – bringing together Dublin Institute of Technology and institutes of technology in Tallaght and Blanchardstown – is also thought likely.

One university president said yesterday: “There will be at least one – and possibly more – technological universities up and running before long. That’s certain.”

The debate on recasting the institutes as technological universities has been bitter and divisive over the past six weeks. University presidents have warned the move could damage the international reputation of Irish education by lowering standards.

There has also been a heated debate at the HEA board, with opinion divided about the criteria which institutes should meet before they become eligible to apply for a new status as technological universities.

The authority is due to finalise these rules before the end of the month but sources say the debate is now being led by Ministers.

One senior source said: “The HEA can be as exacting as they like in drawing up the new rules. The southeast region has a very strong political wind behind it. It is getting university status . . . the only question is when.”

The southeast has run a decade-long battle for university status. The region has one of the lowest third-level participation rates in the State.

After the collapse of the TalkTalk call centre with the loss of 575 jobs in October, Mr Hogan and IDA chief executive Barry O’Leary argued that a university in the southeast could transform the region’s troubled economy.

The Hunt report on higher education last year ruled out the establishment of new universities but held out the prospect of some institutes of technology being redesignated as technological universities, provided strict criteria were met.

University presidents say fewer than 20 per cent of academic staff in the institutes hold PhDs compared to an average of more than 75 per cent in the universities.

In recent years, there has been criticism that the institutes – formerly regional technical colleges – have moved away from their original mission of supporting industry. All now offer an extensive range of arts and humanities courses. Under the new rules, the technological universities will be expected to focus on science and technology.

The Hunt report said the field of learning in any new technological universities must be “closely related to labour market skill needs with a particular focus on programmes in science, engineering and technology and including an emphasis on workplace learning”.

Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0117/1224310362772.html

They said it would never happen, but its even closer now according to reports. Assuming this goes according to plan, can we gather up all the naysayers here on Boards and everywhere else and ask what they think now?

Good news for Waterford & The South East.

dashboard_hula

What would it be called? USE? U of W? TUWC?

Figerty

What do we think.. mickey mouse university status

Sully wrote: »

Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0117/1224310362772.html

They said it would never happen, but its even closer now according to reports. Assuming this goes according to plan, can we gather up all the naysayers here on Boards and everywhere else and ask what they think now?

Good news for Waterford & The South East.

Nypd

Is this actually a good thing ?
We have to be more science oriented, so does this mean a complete reshuffle of courses,
Will the likes of Carlow get courses that are available in Waterford now meaning Waterford students having to move.

Don't get me wrong I'm all for progress I just need to understand fully what is happening.

nkay1985

dashboard_hula wrote: »

What would it be called? USE? U of W? TUWC?

TUSE I'd say.

Like a lot of others, I'm going to reserve judgement until this gets final approval and concrete plans are laid out for it. I'd love to see Waterford become the place where people go to specialise in a science or engineering course but it will require a lot of work for something like that to happen.

The point about the low level of PhDs is very interesting. I can't believe that many staff don't have one. I heard recently that to have any hope of getting a job in a university elsewhere in the country, you'd not only need a PhD but a post-doc too.

I'm also worried about the split between Waterford and Carlow. We've been left behind before and it's not like John Deasy, Paudy Coffey or Ciara Conway are going to have any weight behind them to ensure Waterford comes out of this well. We've been left behind before and I hope this won't be another example of that.

fricatus

I caught the tail end of Ivan Yates talking about the whole idea of a university for the south-east on Newstalk this morning. They were reviewing the papers, so they were clearly talking about some article or other, but I missed the start of the discussion.

Anyone got any idea what the article was? If so, can you post a link?

jmcc

fricatus wrote: »

I caught the tail end of Ivan Yates talking about the whole idea of a university for the south-east on Newstalk this morning. They were reviewing the papers, so they were clearly talking about some article or other, but I missed the start of the discussion.

Anyone got any idea what the article was? If so, can you post a link?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0117/1224310362772.html

Covered in the other thread here.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

The domains have already been registered too. Have been for quite a while.

Regards...jmcc

Guramoogah

Changing the name won't make a blind bit of difference because that's all it is: a change of name. Technological University of the SouthEast = Regional Technical College with delusions of grandeur.

gman2k

The lack of PHDs is only the beginning of the problem.
Many teaching staff have no teaching qualifications!

letsbet

gman2k wrote: »

The lack of PHDs is only the beginning of the problem.
Many teaching staff have no teaching qualifications!

What do you mean by teaching qualifications?

O Riain

gman2k wrote: »

The lack of PHDs is only the beginning of the problem.
Many teaching staff have no teaching qualifications!

Go way will ya its the same in every college/uni in Ireland, some lecturers are just away with the faeries and have no teaching skills whatsoever, as is the case with college, its up to YOU to figure it out. As ****e as that is sometimes.

djpbarry

As others have said, I'm not really sure this is a good idea? What's wrong with being an I.T.?

O Riain

djpbarry wrote: »

As others have said, I'm not really sure this is a good idea? What's wrong with being an I.T.?

Look if it means more funding, more students and possibly more courses then it is a good thing. Its certainly not a bad thing. Plus being the only Technological Institute out of technology will surely have to make it attractive to many potential students. Also its got that word University in there so will be easier for people to take it more seriously as an institution.

Anita Blow

Don't think this should be rushed just for the sake of being able to say it's a University. The other University presidents are dead right in saying letting ITs become Universities will lower our reputation unless certain standards are met.

If an IT wants to become a University then they should have a minimum percentage of lecturers with PHDs at or near the level of existing Universities. If that takes years then so be it. Our overall education standards are not something which should be sacrificed just so a few more ITs can become Universities.

djpbarry

O Riain wrote: »

Look if it means more funding, more students and possibly more courses then it is a good thing.

Where will this extra funding come from and why is a change in status required in order to secure it? And surely whether or not the change is a good thing depends on the nature and quality of the courses on offer?

O Riain wrote: »

Also its got that word University in there so will be easier for people to take it more seriously as an institution.

Virtually every third level institution in the UK has "university" in the name, but that doesn't mean they should all be "taken seriously".

MIT is lacking "University" in its name - is it not taken seriously?

There's nothing wrong with being an I.T. - intellectual snobbery should not be pandered to. If there's a good reason for this move that will improve third-level education standards in Ireland, then fair enough - I'm open to persuasion. But, to be honest, the only argument I've seen so far is "university is better than IT".

This looks like little more than a political PR stunt.

ec18

I don't think this will makes much of a difference as it says that the institute will be refocused away from what many people consider university subjects towards science and tech to meet labour needs thats what the IT's are supposed to be doing already.Besides which it looks likely that there will be one in dublin as well......probably soon after in cork as well.....just a rebranding imho, waste of time and a PR stunt

djpbarry

Anita Blow wrote: »

Don't think this should be rushed just for the sake of being able to say it's a University. The other University presidents are dead right in saying letting ITs become Universities will lower our reputation unless certain standards are met.

I think that misses the point that universities and IT’s are fundamentally different entities, or at least they are supposed to be. “Upgrading” an IT to a university is like trying to “upgrade” a train station to an airport.

ec18 wrote: »

I don't think this will makes much of a difference as it says that the institute will be refocused away from what many people consider university subjects towards science and tech...

Which wouldn’t be a bad thing. I’ve never understood why institutes of technology offer courses in areas such as business and humanities.

wellboytoo

Ahhh who lifted that rock and left all these people out into the sunlight? they never heard about this 30 year old campaign and they're going to fight it out here again now......................

mike65

Waiting for that fella from Cork to pop up.

Bards

why the two threads?

can we merge?