Waterford University discussion

imacman

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Led by donkeys. I've not heard a peep from Willie Donnelly.

He is retiring in the summer , I bet he cant wait to get out the door

914

imacman wrote: »

He is retiring in the summer , I bet he cant wait to get out the door

How does that work, if TU is applied is the position left vacant or temporary filled till Jan 2022.

Or is it a case we could have a new president who will rip up any TU plans

imacman

914 wrote: »

How does that work, if TU is applied is the position left vacant or temporary filled till Jan 2022.

Or is it a case we could have a new president who will rip up any TU plans

I heard he is up for retirement in the summer but if the TU approved and going ahead in the 1st of January 2022 he will stay on in a holding role till that date . At that point a new head of campus for Waterford will have to be appointed as that's what's happened to ex presidents who stepped down in the MTU and TUD mergers

azimuth17

imacman wrote: »

I heard he is up for retirement in the summer but if the TU approved and going ahead in the 1st of January 2022 he will stay on in a holding role till that date . At that point a new head of campus for Waterford will have to be appointed as that's what's happened to ex presidents who stepped down in the MTU and TUD mergers

What's the betting if he goes that head of Carlow IT will be appointed head of WIT pro tem until a new TUSE president is appointed? That happened before AFAIK. A board of four will be appointed by Simon Harris on 1st January if TUSE goes ahead. With Donnelly gone, anything could happen, any decision could be made about HQ, courses or governance without ANY Waterford voice even being heard, I must be living in an alternative universe, because the possibility of real damage to WIT is so obvious as to be sick making yet our Oireachtas members, John Cummins, David Cullinane and Marc O'Cathasaigh in particular are cheerleading the merger. Ms Butler is silent.

imacman

azimuth17 wrote: »

What's the betting if he goes that head of Carlow IT will be appointed head of WIT pro tem until a new TUSE president is appointed? That happened before AFAIK. A board of four will be appointed by Simon Harris on 1st January if TUSE goes ahead. With Donnelly gone, anything could happen, any decision could be made about HQ, courses or governance without ANY Waterford voice even being heard, I must be living in an alternative universe, because the possibility of real damage to WIT is so obvious as to be sick making yet our Oireachtas members, John Cummins, David Cullinane and Marc O'Cathasaigh in particular are cheerleading the merger. Ms Butler is silent.

That could happen but I think the new president of the TU has to be appointed before the merger takes place. That's what happened in the MTU and TUD mergers and the new presidents were outsiders brought in from the Irish and UK university sector. Personally it think the only chance of this merger succeeding is an outside president coming in with no skin in the game who honestly recognizes the strengths and weaknesses of both organisations. If that is the case the HQ will be in Waterford and Waterford will be the leading campus

azimuth17

imacman wrote: »

That could happen but I think the new president of the TU has to be appointed before the merger takes place. That's what happened in the MTU and TUD mergers and the new presidents were outsiders brought in from the Irish and UK university sector. Personally it think the only chance of this merger succeeding is an outside president coming in with no skin in the game who honestly recognizes the strengths and weaknesses of both organisations. If that is the case the HQ will be in Waterford and Waterford will be the leading campus

You may be right, as Sec 56 of the 2018 TU Act says. Minister cab also apparently appoint one of the existing IoT presidents to head the TUSE if he wishes although that was not done in MTU of TUD.

56. (1) The Minister, at any time before the day appointed by order under section 36 , may designate a person to be appointed to be the first president of the technological university.

(2) If, immediately before the day appointed by order under section 36 a person stands designated by the Minister under subsection (1), the technological university shall appoint that person to be the first president with effect from the day appointed by order under section 36 .

(3) A person standing designated under subsection (1) who stood appointed immediately before his or her appointment as president of the technological university under subsection (2), as Director or, as the case may be, president of a dissolved body (in this section referred to as the “first appointment”) shall hold office as the first president of the technological university for such term as the Minister may direct when designating that person under subsection (1) being—

(a) the unexpired term of the first appointment, or

(b) a period longer than the unexpired term which does not exceed 10 years.

imacman

azimuth17 wrote: »

You may be right, as Sec 56 of the 2018 TU Act says. Minister cab also apparently appoint one of the existing IoT presidents to head the TUSE if he wishes although that was not done in MTU of TUD.

56. (1) The Minister, at any time before the day appointed by order under section 36 , may designate a person to be appointed to be the first president of the technological university.

(2) If, immediately before the day appointed by order under section 36 a person stands designated by the Minister under subsection (1), the technological university shall appoint that person to be the first president with effect from the day appointed by order under section 36 .

(3) A person standing designated under subsection (1) who stood appointed immediately before his or her appointment as president of the technological university under subsection (2), as Director or, as the case may be, president of a dissolved body (in this section referred to as the “first appointment”) shall hold office as the first president of the technological university for such term as the Minister may direct when designating that person under subsection (1) being—

(a) the unexpired term of the first appointment, or

(b) a period longer than the unexpired term which does not exceed 10 years.

I don't think even this government stupid enough to appoint the ITCarlow president as TU president by dictate .It would create war in Waterford and is politically unpalatable. But anyway I have heard the president job advert goes out nationally and internationally in the Summer with the TU president appointed in the Autumn

Harry Palmr

Nothing of interest but start at 4 minutes.

https://kclr96fm.com/kilkenny-unlikely-to-have-a-local-campus-as-part-of-the-new-technological-university-for-the-south-east/

914

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Nothing of interest but start at 4 minutes.

https://kclr96fm.com/kilkenny-unlikely-to-have-a-local-campus-as-part-of-the-new-technological-university-for-the-south-east/

I think if you were from Kilkenny you would be fairly pissed, talks of Clonmel and Thurles becoming "University" towns along with Carlow and Wexford.

Maybe they were hedging their bets on the HQ, why wexford over Kilkenny, is Kilkenny to close to Waterford and Carlow although wexford isn't much further.

Maybe it's playing for votes in Wexford

Harry Palmr

Well they have the luxury of being between the two primary campus so can go south or north depending on various factors.

914

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Well they have the luxury of being between the two primary campus so can go south or north depending on various factors.

Ye I agree but Wexford is 58k from Waterford and 76k from Carlow so why the need for a substantial campus in Wexford.

It's not like Wexford is a million miles away. Unless the thought is to prevent north wexford travelling to Dublin, although Gorey is only 58k from Carlow so that squashes that idea.

imacman

914 wrote: »

Ye I agree but Wexford is 58k from Waterford and 76k from Carlow so why the need for a substantial campus in Wexford.

It's not like Wexford is a million miles away. Unless the thought is to prevent north wexford travelling to Dublin, although Gorey is only 58k from Carlow so that squashes that idea.

By any reckoning a Wexford campus is unnecessary , I think the only reason they got an ITcarlow campus (I use campus loosely as part of a secondary school building) is Wexford had politicians will pull over the years who facilitated it while it was the opposite in Waterford.

The Wexford campus was a mistake on ITCarlow , the numbers attending are very small and there is a pattern of students leaving Wexford to go to the Carlow campus in second year to get the big campus experience. I saw a facebook a few years back a student who had left Wexford in second year of his degree complaining he was forced to do his graduation in Wexford rather than Carlow where he had spent 3 years. I presume this was to boost the numbers at that graduation as they may have been embarrassing if it was just Wexford campus students.

I reckon is a big loss maker for them and that's why they have done everything they can to avoid investing in a new campus there over the last 5 years .
Why invest in a loss maker when that money is better spend on their main campus. Of course that message wouldn't be popular with the Wexford politicians and their delusions of grandeur

Harry Palmr

What happened to the Manooth campus in Kilkenny?

914

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What happened to the Manooth campus in Kilkenny?

Pulled the plug as it didn't work. Also word had it students with lower points were attending the kk "campus" and then once in transferring into Maynooth for their second year.

road_high

imacman wrote: »

By any reckoning a Wexford campus is unnecessary , I think the only reason they got an ITcarlow campus (I use campus loosely as part of a secondary school building) is Wexford had politicians will pull over the years who facilitated it while it was the opposite in Waterford.

The Wexford campus was a mistake on ITCarlow , the numbers attending are very small and there is a pattern of students leaving Wexford to go to the Carlow campus in second year to get the big campus experience. I saw a facebook a few years back a student who had left Wexford in second year of his degree complaining he was forced to do his graduation in Wexford rather than Carlow where he had spent 3 years. I presume this was to boost the numbers at that graduation as they may have been embarrassing if it was just Wexford campus students.

I reckon is a big loss maker for them and that's why they have done everything they can to avoid investing in a new campus there over the last 5 years .
Why invest in a loss maker when that money is better spend on their main campus. Of course that message wouldn't be popular with the Wexford politicians and their delusions of grandeur

Honestly? I live in Kilkenny and would be nice to have a proper third level facility but the reality is that boat was missed many decades ago on that- I'm for the TUSE but not silly campuses spread allover the place- there are two main Campuses and looking at it clinically and it makes complete sense to invest in those. It's very possible to get from Kilkenny to the Carlow IT in 20 mins once not held up, I guess WIT 45-50 mins or so depending. The 3rd level attainment rate in Kilkenny is generally higher than the rest of the south east. It never stopped me from going to University. If things are strained for families it's very possible to commute locally to Carlow or Waterford IT daily. Some even doing it to Dublin depending on the course.
The last 12 months have changed all - I think the model in future will involve more remote learning (need for lots of Huge campuses?) with travel to the main campus for labs/tutorials/some lectures and/or a mix of. And with govt finances a busted flush I don't think we can afford it.
The Wexford campus idea sounds pretty mental to me but I wouldn't stand it's way, just not sure why or where is the business case. Doesn't Carlow IT have some kind of outreach facility in Rathnew Co Wicklow (or at least it had) so I'd be watchful of Simon Harris and his meddling. I see he did mention Kildare and Wicklow being thrown into the mix so it's obvious to me at least he's trying to wrangle a bit for his own patch.

Imreoir2

914 wrote: »

Is it possible to buy land that's not for sale? CPO maybe.

The last time I checked Noel Frisby owns the crystal site and it's not presently for sale so how do the government get their hands on it.

Frisby bought it for 3 million in 2012, small money and clear to see the government of the time had no interest in investing in WIT now all of a sudden investing in WIT is the be all and end all.

More like carrot dangling to get the people on side with the TU.

Not a mention of the crystal site until people began to ask questions about the TU, now it's gone quiet again.

TD's have been working with the department re the Crystal site for months on end. Publicity is not useful for that work, once you have the minister referencing the negotation in public you can add at least another zero onto the price tag.

BBM77

Imreoir2 wrote: »

TD's have been working with the department re the Crystal site for months on end. Publicity is not useful for that work, once you have the minister referencing the negotation in public you can add at least another zero onto the price tag.

Why did they say it then?

Christy Browne

https://twitter.com/thesaturdayman/status/1372673132625006594?s=21

Hardly?

914

Christy Browne wrote: »

https://twitter.com/thesaturdayman/status/1372673132625006594?s=21

Hardly?

Won't be the official name but holy God. Although at this stage it wouldn't surprise me it's laughable

road_high

Christy Browne wrote: »

https://twitter.com/thesaturdayman/status/1372673132625006594?s=21

Hardly?

Carlow IT use the tag line all the time “”At the heart of south Leinster”. So that’s likely where its coming from. Not sure if WIT has one.
Come on Waterford, change provinces we’d love to have you - on the map it makes sense and historically wasn’t Waterford part of Leinster ?
Waterford has virtually nothing in common with the likes of Kerry, Clare. There’s already a Munster TU. I party jest here as I know the name won’t fly

Dunmoreroader

I like Richard Finnegan's 'South Leinster University of Technology' - S.L.U.T. - coz we're getting well and truly rode whatever they call it.
The one they came up with obviously won't fly but it shows the mindset of the Carlow contingent, the tail has been wagging the dog all the way through this process.
Senior WIT people need to start coming out in public against this sham.

Harry Palmr

The silence is deafening. They either don't care, think it's actually a good deal or they are just beaten down.

imacman

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The silence is deafening. They either don't care, think it's actually a good deal or they are just beaten down.

They are beaten down and some of them are weak characters who are been letting Carlow run the show. The way I see is WIT management are like the democrat's is 2016 , playing by the rules and thinking its all going to turn out ok in the end. They are looking at it from a regional point of view and a lot of them feel this is the way forward for the Southeast,and WIT & Waterford will get treated fairly if they go along with the project.

Meanwhile Carlow are like Trump , only focused on themselves and how they come out on top of this merger and become the leaders of the TU. They are happy to do anything they need to do to achieve his aim and are running rings around the WIT management. Nice guys lose and so will WIT and in turn Waterford

Muttley79

road_high wrote: »

Carlow IT use the tag line all the time “”At the heart of south Leinster”. So that’s likely where its coming from. Not sure if WIT has one.
Come on Waterford, change provinces we’d love to have you - on the map it makes sense and historically wasn’t Waterford part of Leinster ?
Waterford has virtually nothing in common with the likes of Kerry, Clare. There’s already a Munster TU. I party jest here as I know the name won’t fly

It's something that crossed my mind.geographically we are in no man's land.we are the only munster county in the south east region which has led to waterford competing for crumbs off the table against cork and limerick.both them cities are aligned with each other economically and socially.i see west waterford closer to cork city than they are waterford city.kilkenny wexford carlow sees waterford as a munster city and they would rather have closer ties with dublin.waterford city would nearly be better off selling itself as an alternative second city to dublin in leinster which would create massive investment to this city and region

Harry Palmr

Is it time for Waterford to leave Munster? What has Munster ever done for us?

gobo99

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Is it time for Waterford to leave Munster? What has Munster ever done for us?

The aqueduct?

Imreoir2

imacman wrote: »

They are beaten down and some of them are weak characters who are been letting Carlow run the show. The way I see is WIT management are like the democrat's is 2016 , playing by the rules and thinking its all going to turn out ok in the end. They are looking at it from a regional point of view and a lot of them feel this is the way forward for the Southeast,and WIT & Waterford will get treated fairly if they go along with the project.

Meanwhile Carlow are like Trump , only focused on themselves and how they come out on top of this merger and become the leaders of the TU. They are happy to do anything they need to do to achieve his aim and are running rings around the WIT management. Nice guys lose and so will WIT and in turn Waterford

Sounds like a shower of immature bollocks to me. WIT getting University status and an expanded footprint in Waterford is no good if any other county also benefits. :rolleyes:

Embarrasing stuff.

JimWinters

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Sounds like a shower of immature bollocks to me. WIT getting University status and an expanded footprint in Waterford is no good if any other county also benefits. :rolleyes:

Embarrasing stuff.

You’re embarrassing yourself!

First off, it’s not a university, if it was we’d be happy out! It’s a Technological University, if you don’t know the difference you should go do some research.

Secondly, TUD were promised 1 billion for their Grangegorman campus, CIT and ITT got 250m in new funding for projects, research and refurbishing older buildings. The majority of the 150m for the TUSEI was announced previously. For example the building in Waterford was first announced around 13 years ago and has been reannounced at least 3 times since! What does increased footprint even mean? A new car park? If they have specifics for Waterford why don’t they announce them?

The government has said they’ll have to wait for the new board to decide where the HQ and other developments happen, then they say there’s definitely a substantial for Wexford.

All we want is transparency, clarity and educational equality with other city regions. What we’re getting is politics getting in the way of what’s best for the students of the southeast. As demonstrated in TUD and abroad, the centralisation of campuses in a single location offers the best educational and student experience...

All that said, the majority on this thread don’t think there shouldn’t be a campus in Wexford or Carlow or wherever. We’re defending WIT as the lead institute in the merger (which by almost any metric it is) in the same way CIT is the obvious lead institute in MTU. WIT stand to lose a lot more than they might gain from this merger and rebrand!

Imreoir2

JimWinters wrote: »

WIT stand to lose a lot more than they might gain from this merger and rebrand!

What exactly does WIT stand to lose?

WIT gets University status, the HQ will be in Waterford (suggestions to the contraty branded as 'nonsence' by the Minister), and the campus in Waterford will be expanded.

Some people what to pull the whole thing down becasue they can't stand the idea of any other county in the South East also benefiting. It's utterly stupid.

Harry Palmr

The pot is finite and it's going to be split in three directions so instead of one fully formed well funded campus we'll have three poorly funded ones.

btw, you haven't wondered aloud why the SE is the only City region which will not have a proper university and which HAS to share with two small towns, it's a question worth asking.