First debate...

dublinmayflower

I expect Obama to get a bigger gap between him and McCain after this. Obama talks on target whereas McCain is all over the place and hard to follow. And this is his major strength? Think Obama could go in for the kill more on what words McCain is using tonight though, he seems to be saying what he has practiced before tonight.

Manic Moran

I'm only going on what portion was on the radio when I was in the car, but Obama certainly sounded better. That said, he seemed to say very little, but said it very well, whilst McCain seemed to be more definitive/willing to stake ground, but didn't do a good job of getting it across.

I must review it in totality at some point.

Overall, though, my impression was one person speaking, steamrolling over any objections the other guy had, then swap-over. "I came here for a good argument!" "No you didn't. You came here for an argument" "Yes I did" "No you didn't..."

[ETA: Reviewing the BBC coverage, the blow-by-blow account with op-ed comments indicated that the Beeb and her viewers would rather replace both candidates, and the moderator!]

NTM

Black Swan

One news commentator after the debate concluded that the debate was a tie, and that it would not benefit either candidate. Republications would declare it a McCain victory, while Democrats would declare it an Obama victory, with both party machines spinning the outcomes in campaign ads to follow.

Personally I was disappointed with Obama. Although he was strong voiced and intelligent sounding, he was not charismatic, a strength that McCain has never evidenced. When Obama is charismatic, he sounds like JFK (who destroyed Vice President Nixon in their debate and won Kennedy the election).

Overheal

charisma is hard to pull off and easy to spot. and right now its not what the american people want or need. they need a strong and informed leader. Whether or not the next president will be able to charm the pants off foreign delegates and become post-ups for housewifes is not really a concern here.

Black Swan

Overheal...
I agree that Americans need someone to lead them towards valid and reliable solutions to their domestic and foreign problems, but I do not believe that's the way this campaign has being conducted thus far. It's more like voting for the next American Idol. All flash and no substance.

is_that_so

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

One news commentator after the debate concluded that the debate was a tie, and that it would not benefit either candidate. Republications would declare it a McCain victory, while Democrats would declare it an Obama victory, with both party machines spinning the outcomes in campaign ads to follow.

Personally I was disappointed with Obama. Although he was strong voiced and intelligent sounding, he was not charismatic, a strength that McCain has never evidenced. When Obama is charismatic, he sounds like JFK (who destroyed Vice President Nixon in their debate and won Kennedy the election).

Whatever other talents he has he is not a good debater. Of the four Biden is the only one who can debate.

Obama can come across as ponderous and "professorial". He also tends to waffle and use fairly long-winded explanations, something easily cut out from scripted speeches.

speedboatchase

Keith Olbermanns coverage on MSNBC was incredibly one-sided afterwards. Whatever you want to say about Fox News, MSNBC is just as biased, if not more so. Either way - as most coverage has said, nobody drew a knockout punch and I'd call it a tie. Obama needs to cut loose a bit, he's coming off as a stuffy professor-type, get him back dancing on Ellen

Craft25

+1

obama's an attractive man, he needs to shed the nerdy image.. he should aim for the 'women want to be with, men want to have a beer with' cliche, although i dont think it will be easy for him... mcCains war hero status really highlights this weakness

The Mad Hatter

speedboatchase wrote: »

Keith Olbermanns coverage on MSNBC was incredibly one-sided afterwards. Whatever you want to say about Fox News, MSNBC is just as biased, if not more so. Either way - as most coverage has said, nobody drew a knockout punch and I'd call it a tie. Obama needs to cut loose a bit, he's coming off as a stuffy professor-type, get him back dancing on Ellen

Well, Olbermann is, but I'm not sure if that's true of the whole channel. That said, I've never watched anything other than Olbermann on it, so I can't really say.

Kama

Haven't watched the last half hour yet, but fairly disappointing debate. Expected better of McCain, having seen him speak in person before. Obama imo is a good orator, but not a good debater; lovely voice, but his comebacks are tl;dr when spiky 'hits' are more necessary.

Neither answered any questions, unsurprisingly, nor would they address each other (or even make eyecontact) despite moderator intervention and prodding. Playing conservatively, less loss saying nothing yet being 'on message' than making any real answers, especially obvious in the economy section.

My 2c was that Obama was winning technically, but McCain was ahead on soundbites. Obama did better domestically, McCain stronger on international.

Easily spun by each side as a victory, so...

nhughes100

I only caught the first hour, can't say I was overly impressed by either candidate which is sort of confirming my belief that this is a very weak presidential election choice on all fronts. Far too much repitition from both, Obama constantly mentioned the "middle class" which I thought was peculiar, he agreed with McCain on a number of issues only to come out with his other catchphrase "Now here's the problem".

McCain was very flat, full of the usual republican rhetoric about democratic over taxing and over spending. One very interesting remark he made was about spending, he said - I've got a pen, proceeded to try and take the top of a marker without much luck and then said he will veto every spending bill that comes in front of him. Amazingly he wasn't challanged by the chairman or more amazingly by Obama. Let's face it, it was a very blunt statement to make from a man that's promised to look after all service personnel. Surely the president will have to spent some money??

From what I saw I'd edge Obama, not because he was so good but because McCain was so flat, I hope to see much better in the next two. Hopefully Biden will show Palin up for the gimmick she is.

GuanYin

The only real measurable indicator of victory in a debate is post-debate polling, in which case Obama won.

However, the polls now mean nothing when November comes unless someone pulls off a KO.

I think the dividing factor for many undecideds right now (myself included) is the VP situation.

Overheal

Craft25 wrote: »

+1

obama's an attractive man, he needs to shed the nerdy image.. he should aim for the 'women want to be with, men want to have a beer with' cliche, although i dont think it will be easy for him... mcCains war hero status really highlights this weakness

tbh Id rather have someone in the oval office that can lead, not drink.

The Raven.

Craft25 wrote: »

obama's an attractive man...

I keep hearing this. The peculiar thing is that it seems to come mostly from men !!

Overheal

is there something you want to tell us?

2Scoops

GuanYin wrote: »

I think the dividing factor for many undecideds right now (myself included) is the VP situation.

A health science researcher is 'undecided'?! FYI, NIH funding isn't high on Mr. McCain's agenda. He's a maverick, don'tcha know?

GuanYin

2Scoops wrote: »

A health science researcher is 'undecided'?! FYI, NIH funding isn't high on Mr. McCain's agenda. He's a maverick, don'tcha know?

Well I'm a clinician, so I have private practice ties - maybe I'm thinking about the loss of earnings a healthcare system might lead to

2Scoops

GuanYin wrote: »

Well I'm a clinician, so I have private practice ties - maybe I'm thinking about the loss of earnings a healthcare system might lead to

LOL, as long as it's a purely financial decision I suppose that's McCain's bread and butter... :pac:

Black Swan

is_that_so wrote: »

Of the four Biden is the only one who can debate..

Agree, but will his Democratic campaign handlers allow him to exhibit his debating skill, or will they make him put on kid gloves and not appear the bully of the small town hockey mom?

Then again, could they be giving Biden two different sets of rules for engagement? Are the Dems that smart? (doubtful methinks)

• Plan A: Soft Hockey Mom shows, then handle her professionally with kid gloves.
• Plan B: Rough Pit Bull with Lipstick shows, use his full set of debating skills.

Manic Moran

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

[*]Plan A: Soft Hockey Mom shows, then handle her professionally with kid gloves.
[*]Plan B: Rough Pit Bull with Lipstick shows, use his full set of debating skills.

That's the main reason I want to see the VP debate. Palin is such a wildcard, she could be a bitter disappointment, or she could be wolf in sheep's clothing: We know very little about her. I'm not about to put money in either direction.

NTM

Ludo

Just watched this video of Palin debating in Alaska.

3 things struck me....

1. she is quite a good debater in this

2. what the hell is up with her accent. It appears normal in this video. Has she been hamming up her accent for the last couple of months to appear more hockey mommish????

3. She appears almost intelligent. Completely the opposite of what we have seen since the VP announcement. Then again these were Alaskan topics so she should know them really.

Kama

Humorous analysis of the first debate:

Don’t know if you were watching TV last Friday evening, but if you were, you noticed that all the network channels were running this bizarre experimental film called The Debate. It featured a 90-minute stand-off between two men of opposed characteristics—black vs. white, young vs. old, tall vs. short, handsome vs. hideous, and so on. Andy Warhol used to make this kind of film; one of his, called Sleep, is an eight-hour shot of a guy snoozing.

Anyway, Friday’s Warholian exercise seemed to be showing us a sort of ossification process, both men rigidifying before our eyes till only their mouths were moving. This was no doubt meant to be an allegory of our current financial crisis, signifying that, as credit “freezes up,” it paralyzes both Main Street and Wall Street. Main Street is symbolized here by the young black guy, see, because this is clearly a film produced by hardcore lefty-artsy types who are the only people on earth still making or watching experimental cinema, and they want to underscore the nation’s racial diversity. The nasty, tubby white guy represents Wall Street, of course, same as always.

The moving mouths signify how nobody in America ever shuts up.


I can’t imagine who’s the collegiate Darren Aronofsky with the connections to get his student film on the air in prime time, but it sure made for an evening of rotten TV.

Source

Sand

BBC was running some story today, where Palins Democrat rival was praising her debating skills. Remains to be seen if she can compete on a national debate stage. Or even if her coaching will actually hinder her own strengths by making her try to be something shes not. She is being careful to downplay her own chances from what Ive seen, and Biden is at the point where hes being concerned about being seen to be a bully. The recipe for a potential upset is there if Palin comes out strong.

Hopefully shell remember McCains position on invading Pakistan for starters.

Overheal

you have to wonder if it isnt part of the GOP playbook by now: make a couple gaffes, bait the democrats into criticising you, then suddenly turning it around on them. Theres at least a chance she could tear it up at that debate, and it would lead to another split election.

Dave!

Are Biden and Palin really gonna have a debate? He's been a senator for like 100 years, she has... not. Is this gonna be about Biden having to hold back for the whole debate so that he doesn't humiliate Palin and get her some sympathy?

Black Swan

This is one of the big questions to be answered during the debate. Which Palin will show? The one that stumbled and looked terribly incompetent interviewing with Charles Gibson and Katie Couric, or the one that won the Governor of Alaska debates?

Overheal

look out for quickly spoken, rehearsed responses from her. her delivery with queues in front of her is superb, but it will take some real moxy to pull off this debate without at least a couple fumbles.