Total Ban on the Way?

meathstevie

Sparks, I know it's easy stating that a licensed firearm is no significant source of trouble.

It's rather more difficult convincing a political party that has an easy opportunity to potentially score a few easy points with an unknowledgeable majority of society.

Personally I don't think Dermot Aherne himself is anti handgun ownership. Problem is that he has pressure coming from all sides : certain press people, overactive securocrats and last but not least opinion polls. And on top of that it's very tempting to come out with something the opposition is not going to oppose and is going to capture the tabloid headlines for at least one day.

I'm afraid we'll have to fight a hard difficult battle with limited chance of success if the decision to ban is made. The only thing we can do as shooters of all persuasions is demonstrate that we toe the line. If needs be invite journalists to clay shoots, pistol competitions etc in an attempt to turn opinion.

In other words, as you yourself have said before Sparks, get our PR up to scratch. We all know we're doing a lot of stuff right unfortunately we're not always the most adept at making that point publicly.

On the positive side : if I read the article correctly the minister said that a ban is one of the possible options. That means he's also considering something different if my comprehension of political English is any good.

cavan shooter

BornToKill wrote: »

Are you offering 10/1 that over 40 people beat themselves or were beaten to death with hurleys last year? I'd like to take that bet!

Your right my mistake on that one,
The Father that murdered the kids and wife with the Hurley is actually serving time for that one, the house still lies idle

Grizzly 45

It's rather more difficult convincing a political party that has an easy opportunity to potentially score a few easy points with an unknowledgeable majority of society.

Personally I don't think Dermot Aherne himself is anti handgun ownership. Problem is that he has pressure coming from all sides : certain press people, overactive securocrats and last but not least opinion polls. And on top of that it's very tempting to come out with something the opposition is not going to oppose and is going to capture the tabloid headlines for at least one day.

IOW he would be useless at his job and kowtow to public pressure! He was elected and is paid to stand up and say.."Hold on,the FACTSas the stand are law abiding firearms owners have NOT shot anyone here in Ireland ala Finland,or elsewhere,and there is NO reason to punish them or confiscate their private property,and waste more taxpayers money..The problem is the unliscensed stuff out there..WE KNOW where the legal stuff is...So I am going to do my job and go after criminals and their firearms." Unfortuneatly I think that would be asking too much of a politican and especially of an Irish one!:(

I'm afraid we'll have to fight a hard difficult battle with limited chance of success if the decision to ban is made. The only thing we can do as shooters of all persuasions is demonstrate that we toe the line. If needs be invite journalists to clay shoots, pistol competitions etc in an attempt to turn opinion.

Two words on that one . PRIME TIME debacle this year...:(
Since that PR disaster it would be a very brave person or club that would bring without any PR training any media whore within a `100 miles of their range or club anymore.Sad really,but it is too easy to have a great day and then sling muck and ink in their rag.

WE NEED a professional PR company/person to deal with our side of the arguement,it is too risky anymore to let this be handled by amatuers in our club

In other words, as you yourself have said before Sparks, get our PR up to scratch. We all know we're doing a lot of stuff right unfortunately we're not always the most adept at making that point publicly.

See above point.The shooting organisations NEED to get proper PR advice or training.

On the positive side : if I read the article correctly the minister said that a ban is one of the possible options. That means he's also considering something different if my comprehension of political English is any good

.

I hope so too,as I have plans to start a pistol range here in Limerick and can get the monies together for it.But I'l be dammed if I am going to hang 200k debt around my neck,and the Govt then bans handguns six months later!!!Also,I and actually pretty much all of us had a hard enough time getting our liscenses.Soscrew them if they think I will roll over and hand it over without a major fight!!Maybe we should consider some contingency plans here..Like checking out more gun friendlier climes in the EU within an hours flight time with Ryanair,and setting up a "Wild Geese" club if need be??

Bananaman

Mr Ahern will debate the issue, take advise from various parties and make a decision - perhaps with, perhaps not with input from the people directly affected by a negative outcome - the sport shooting community.

As far as I was aware the FCP is the vehicle that was created to ensure that that body of people IS represented in any decision making process.

Either this is taking place or it is not.

The political process invariably has very little to do with what is happening "on the ground" but has more to do with the perception of what is happening "on the ground".

Right now the government is in the spotlight because of the state of the economy and every newspaper is crammed with "arse falls out of irish economy" style headlines - in that sort of environment ANY alternative topic for discussion is a good one.

I have little chance of making any sway in the decisions making process that may, or may not, be taking place but what I am quite concerned with is some of the language that was used in the article. Whether it was a direct quote of the Judge in question or bolstered to fan the flame by the editor I do not know but the following quote is what has me most annoyed.

Irish gun laws were lambasted by High Court judge Peter Charleton last month, who linked increased handgun ownership to rising homicide and suicide rates.

In my view it is this sort of comment that needs to be taken to task. There can be absolutely no correlation between legal handgun ownership and any crime statistic except that they are both figures published by the CSO. Any attempt to link them needs to be fought.

General public perception of legal handgun ownership will have far more sway that the opinions of the very few owners of said handguns.
Any attempt by any party to smear the legal owners of these needs to be fought any the public needs to be informed that legal handgun ownership in Ireland is strictly controlled and that the Gardai have the situation well under control.

The "great unwashed" don't need to know about the number, make or calibre of handguns in the country - they do not care - they simply want to know that the Gardai - who are tasked with maintaining their safety - have the situation well in hand and are doing everything in their power to ensure that that safety is not compromised.

In my opinion that is exactly the case right now and any attempt to link legal handgun ownership with any crime statistic is not just a smear on the character of the owners of those handguns but on the Gardai as well.


My tuppence worth.

B'Man

Sparks

Thing is B'man, the best way to fight that is to put yourself out there *before* the news stories show up. Which means promoting news coverage of your sport, getting into the papers, getting positive news coverage and so on. That's what the NTSA's been trying to do since around about 2001 or so. It takes time to build up to it, you need professional training for your PROs, you need PROs to begin with as opposed to it being one of the fifty different tasks people expect the chairman to do, and you have to do it continously. It's no good doing one story every few months at the same time that we see one of these kind of "gun owners bad, four legs good" stories in the press.

And of course you'll have the side issue that if you succeed, sooner or later some folks are going to protray you as elitist self-promoting snobs

Red Renard

Maybe we should consider some contingency plans here..Like checking out more gun friendlier climes in the EU within an hours flight time with Ryanair,and setting up a "Wild Geese" club if need be?? quote Grizzly.

No need to fly, drive to the North of Ireland.:)

Grizzly 45

Ummm,not to be a harbringer of bad tidings RR,but I hear it isnt that secure up there either anymore.Despite "peace" prevailing and wolves and lambs now lying down together etc.:(
Still closer than Germany or Holland I guess.:(

Bman
The article while trying to sensationalise everything to all men.Does have some facts in it RE the RT Hon Judge Charltons comments.Judge Charlton did say that it was undesireable the way firearms legislation was picemeal over several acts.Which I think all in the shooting community can agree on.However the remainder of his judgement is riddled with inaccuracy,speculation,and flies in the face of precedent and current law.
There is a thread here that has the case mentioned.
www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055330606

So from July when this was mooted to Oct1st what have we gunowners and our organisations been doing to counter this???Answers on a postcard please
:(