Sat4Free/Freesat in Ireland

Kensington

Right had a fiddle around with it today.

Box is basically a Freesat box minus any reference whatsoever to Freesat - all Freesat mentions and logos are replaced by Sat4Free. Has a full 7 day EPG built into it, uses the same channel lineup as Freesat, set with the NI regional variants (BBC 1 NI, UTV etc.). Box "autorolls" with channel/transponder parameter changes in the EPG so no need to retune. Also has red button interactive BBCi feature on the BBCs - exactly like that on a Sky Digibox.

Software wise, menu's are slightly re-arranged compared to the UK system. No access to the ITV HD channel at the moment on the HD version due to problems with UTV (full access to BBC HD though). Ability to manually add additional channels (such as extra regions) is also not fully functional yet. Software update is in the pipeline though to fix these and a few more snags, and bring the box more in line with the Freesat equivalent.

There's two versions of it - a HD and a non HD version. Both with the exact same connections on the back of it (minus the HDMI on the non-HD one obviously) - power, two scarts, ethernet port.

Both boxes are on display, the HD version active and working on demo connected to a HD TV, on a stand in the Tallaght branch if you fancy a fiddle!

byte

Is there no way to change the lineup from NI ones to GB? If it uses most of the Freesat menu system, it should be possible perhaps to change postcode at Initial Setup, to something in GB, so then you'd have access to ITV HD.

The interactive ITVHD service isn't available on UTV (as you've already figured out), and maybe not on STV either. Just "ITV1" regions...

Anyway, thanks for the info.

Kensington

byte wrote: »

Is there no way to change the lineup from NI ones to GB? If it uses most of the Freesat menu system, it should be possible perhaps to change postcode at Initial Setup, to something in GB, so then you'd have access to ITV HD.

Almost certain you can't do this - it defaults to NI. I will double check for you though and let you know!

copacetic

just for ref, ITVHD only becomes available via the red button when a HD show is actually on, which isn't very often.


sounds like a non freesat branded version of the GUFSAT01HD that I have, as byte says.

surprised they disabled the postcode editing in that version, mine defaults to london everytime as thats what was originally entered, but you can change it my going through initial setup again, under settings > first time install.

I guess if you don't have the option there to change the postcode then you are stuck with NI line up.

Trevord

Parents have UPC sub at moment but I think that the Powercity Satforfree solution would appeal to them, particularly if it has the 7 day epg and the auto channel updating, since I know they would not have the patience to be messing with a standard FTA box.

A few additional questions of clarificaiton for Kensington (or anyone else who can chip in) on Satforfree.

1.
If Powercity Grundig box is set to NI does that mean you have no access to C4 (am I not right in thinking that C4 NI region is still scrambled).

2.
What about non-NI ITV regions, are they accessible?

3.Down the line what's involved in doing the software upgrade mentioned by Kensington?

4.
Would 50 or 60 euro cover cost of a reasonably durable (ie. non Lidl) dish and lnb. Is that Raven dish mentioned by mumhaabu OK ?

Thanks in advance.

redout

Trevord wrote: »

Parents have UPC sub at moment but I think that the Powercity Satforfree solution would appeal to them, particularly if it has the 7 day epg and the auto channel updating, since I know they would not have the patience to be messing with a standard FTA box.

A few additional questions of clarificaiton for Kensington (or anyone else who can chip in) on Satforfree.

1.
If Powercity Grundig box is set to NI does that mean you have no access to C4 (am I not right in thinking that C4 NI region is still scrambled).

2.
What about non-NI ITV regions, are they accessible?

3.Down the line what's involved in doing the software upgrade mentioned by Kensington?

4.
Would 50 or 60 euro cover cost of a reasonably durable (ie. non Lidl) dish and lnb. Is that Raven dish mentioned by mumhaabu OK ?

Thanks in advance.

I have the official freesat setup with a Belfast postcode and channel 4 is there although it is on 971 or something similar ! The only itv I get is UTV, itv 2, itv 2+1, itv 3, itv 3+1 and itv 4. I think that you can tune all the others in manually if you wish. All the BBC regions show up, about 20 of them.

givecredit

Trevord wrote: »

1.
If Powercity Grundig box is set to NI does that mean you have no access to C4 (am I not right in thinking that C4 NI region is still scrambled).

2.
What about non-NI ITV regions, are they accessible?

3.Down the line what's involved in doing the software upgrade mentioned by Kensington?

4.
Would 50 or 60 euro cover cost of a reasonably durable (ie. non Lidl) dish and lnb. Is that Raven dish mentioned by mumhaabu OK ?

1. Channel 4 NI is now free to Air, but still not on freesat epg, but will be there soon. The London version is on the 900s somewhere, think 974
2. With the expected software upgrade you will be able to see other itv regions. If it works similar to Freesat Grundig box, you will be able to access these channels by using the channel up/down Buttons. The channels are at the bottom of the channel order, so by using channel up button you get to the bottom of list first, ie the added channels. Much more user friendly then the Humax freesat box.
3.The software upgrade will happen automatically, the upgrade is done over the air.
4. Yes 50 or 60 euro should be fine. Just make sure its 60cm. You get a sky mesh dish on ebay for circa 50euro, including fixings, lnb and delivery.

By the way you can buy a freesat box on the internet for €76 including delivery if you buy two. €87.00 if you buy one . Save yourself €23 , be sure of constant software upgrades and pick whatever region you want on the epg.
I got two from satellitesuperstores grundig sd boxes for €76 each.

Compton

mumhaabu wrote: »

A friend of mine got a FTA system in recently after asking my advice, he got:

The LIDL kit which is a good Comag/Silvercrest receiver €79.99
Raven 60cms Sky dish €38 from eBay
Installation €120 to align the dish and run the cable and hook everything up

Total: €237.99 for the FTA System, I didn't like the Lidl dish as it seems flimsy and not up to the job as the Sky dish are ubiquitous and standard plus if he decides to go for Sky down the road he need only swap out the FTA box for a Sky receiver.

Was what I advised my mate to do a good or a bad idea? be honest! He is happy with it all the same.

only 245 installed in satworld!! why go through the hasstle and use lidl gear

Kensington

Trevord wrote: »

1. If Powercity Grundig box is set to NI does that mean you have no access to C4 (am I not right in thinking that C4 NI region is still scrambled).

AFAIK Channel 4 is there, will confirm tomorrow - the NI version broadcasts in the clear on 10.714GHz on the 2D beam. An encrypted simulcast of it is broadcasted for Sky Digiboxes, until the end of the Sky NDS Videoguard encryption agreement with Channel 4 ends.

Trevord wrote: »

2. What about non-NI ITV regions, are they accessible?

At the moment, no - this is a known issue, will hopefully be resolved in the next update.

Trevord wrote: »

3. Down the line what's involved in doing the software upgrade mentioned by Kensington?

There is an option in the System Menu to check if you have the latest updates - the box will update itself automatically though if a new software version becomes available.

Trevord wrote: »

4. Would 50 or 60 euro cover cost of a reasonably durable (ie. non Lidl) dish and lnb.

Powercity sell the oval shaped Zone 2 Sky Minidish with single output LNB for about €45.

Zaphod

If anyone gets a chance to visit Powercity, could they please post a few pics of the receivers and the on-screen menus?

The Cush

Kensington wrote: »

AFAIK Channel 4 is there, will confirm tomorrow - the NI version broadcasts in the clear on 10.714GHz on the 2D beam. An encrypted simulcast of it is broadcasted for Sky Digiboxes, until the end of the Sky NDS Videoguard encryption agreement with Channel 4 ends.

The "encrypted simulcast" is the Republic of Ireland version and will not be ending its encryption agreement with Sky. In fact all the ROI versions have been amalgamated onto one transponder recently - Astra 2A (28.2E) - 12480.00 V

byte

Lyngsat suggests that the encrypted C4 versions are ROI versions and C4 London (it was C4 NI last time I looked).

Mossy Monk

ROI versions with programming still blocked. A joke.

cherish

I will be visiting Dublin in a few weeks and would like to pick up a freesat box. I would like to find the ARGUS in Northern Ireland that has the easiest access by rail. I assume it is near Newry but could use some help if anyone knows. German television is about to drive me mad and I could use some BBC. A sky subscription price for us here is outrageous with the additional service charges provided by the unauthorized service providers. I think freesat could be the answer......Any suggestions?

Thanks.....cherish

Tony

I would investigate what dish size you need before buying a freesat box.

cherish wrote: »

I will be visiting Dublin in a few weeks and would like to pick up a freesat box. I would like to find the ARGUS in Northern Ireland that has the easiest access by rail. I assume it is near Newry but could use some help if anyone knows. German television is about to drive me mad and I could use some BBC. A sky subscription price for us here is outrageous with the additional service charges provided by the unauthorized service providers. I think freesat could be the answer......Any suggestions?

Thanks.....cherish

redout

Newry is the first stop in the north for the freesat. Both Argos and Currys in Newry selling the freesat box. It can be bought in Dublin but for a higher price.

cherish

We have friends around our area that pick up the sky subscription service with a 60cm dish. They brought over their SKYHD receiver and it worked perfectly with my 80cm dish. I am not the most technical person so if their is something I am missing please advise.

Thanks for your help....cherish

Tony

Did it work on all channels including BBC ITV?

cherish wrote: »

We have friends around our area that pick up the sky subscription service with a 60cm dish. They brought over their SKYHD receiver and it worked perfectly with my 80cm dish. I am not the most technical person so if their is something I am missing please advise.

Thanks for your help....cherish

bmaxi

cherish wrote: »

I will be visiting Dublin in a few weeks and would like to pick up a freesat box. I would like to find the ARGUS in Northern Ireland that has the easiest access by rail. I assume it is near Newry but could use some help if anyone knows. German television is about to drive me mad and I could use some BBC. A sky subscription price for us here is outrageous with the additional service charges provided by the unauthorized service providers. I think freesat could be the answer......Any suggestions?

Thanks.....cherish

I'm assuming you are living in Germany. My daughter lives close to Frankfurt and she picks up all the BBC, ITV etc on an 80cm dish using an FTA box, so the only benefit you would get from Freesat is the EPG. However, if you want to go to Argos in Newry, there is a free bus service from the rail station to the bus station and Argos is in the shopping centre on Merchants Quay, across the bridge and to the left. Check stock on the net and reserve it if you like. If you are picking up German TV on your dish, it may need realigning.

Bog Butter

Can someone tell me the exact limitations if any of a UK freesat box over a free to air sat reciever. Do they both do the same thing?

Trevord

malman wrote: »

Can someone tell me the exact limitations if any of a UK freesat box over a free to air sat reciever. Do they both do the same thing?

On an FTA box you set up channels in any sequence you want. You control the order in which the channels appear. On a freesat box you cant do that. Channels have fixed positions in the menus. Some people will have an issue with this while other wont.

With an FTA boxes you typically need to rescan the sat now and again, since channels move and you can get a mismatch between channel names and actual channel content. Again some people will find this an inconvenience. A freesat box automatically handles all this in the background.

The freesat group of channels broadcast a stronger signal over IRL/UK which means that you can get away with a smaller dish. Downside is that with a smaller dish you may not get a strong enough signal to pick up some FTA channels broascasting from the same point in the sky but which are not part of the freesat arrangement.

That's about it as far as I can make out.

Bog Butter

After reading all the threads i have a few more questions if someone wouldn't mind answering for me. This would be greatly appreciated.

I'm in a position to drive into Newry.

1. If i buy a freesat box there will I be asked for a postcode either in store or upon set up?

2. Also, Tony mentioned something about dish size. Why would this have a bearing?

3. Are the freesat boxes not just tailored free to air boxes?

4. I already have a FTA reciever so i know what channels are available using it. Are there limitations on channels recieved (e.g uk regional channels) via the freesat box?

Tony

Afraid thats incorrect Freesat uses the same power levels and transponders as those FTA channels not in the freesat group. A properly aligned 60cm dish using good quality cable will work on any FTA channel from astra 2/eurobird.


[QUOTE=Trevord;57477723.

The freesat group of channels broadcast a stronger signal over IRL/UK which means that you can get away with a smaller dish. Downside is that with a smaller dish you may not get a strong enough signal to pick up some FTA channels broascasting from the same point in the sky but which are not part of the freesat arrangement.

[/QUOTE]

Tony

malman wrote: »

2. Also, Tony mentioned something about dish size. Why would this have a bearing?

It has a bearing if you live outside Uk/Ireland as you will be outside the main target footprint of the satellite

scruffy66

Bush , Grundig seem to have copied their own freesat box and called it sat for free , from what ive heard they've patented this SATFORFREE box for the irish market and the official launch will be in the Guinness hops store sometime in october , Tesco will be selling them for 89 euro ,299 euro fitted ,The satforfree name must be away of getting around the fact that freesat is meant to be only for english license fee payers

Trevord

Tony wrote: »

Afraid thats incorrect Freesat uses the same power levels and transponders as those FTA channels not in the freesat group. A properly aligned 60cm dish using good quality cable will work on any FTA channel from astra 2/eurobird.

Tony - I stand corrected.

So if you get pixelation in heavy rain on some channels on 28.2E, that is merely down to misalignment of dish or skew on lnb ? Are there any areas in IRL where the zone 2 sky dish is insufficient ?

byte

scruffy66 wrote: »

Bush , Grundig seem to have copied their own freesat box and called it sat for free , from what ive heard they've patented this SATFORFREE box for the irish market and the official launch will be in the Guinness hops store sometime in october , Tesco will be selling them for 89 euro ,299 euro fitted ,The satforfree name must be away of getting around the fact that freesat is meant to be only for english license fee payers

You could well be right (not sure about patenting a name). I have found that the URL sat4free.ie has been registered to a company called Irish Power Products in Sandyford, though unsure if it's related.

Tony

Trevord wrote: »

Tony - I stand corrected.

So if you get pixelation in heavy rain on some channels on 28.2E, that is merely down to misalignment of dish or skew on lnb ? Are there any areas in IRL where the zone 2 sky dish is insufficient ?

No problem. It can be misalignment, a long run of inferior cable, a faulty lnb or in rare cases a faulty tuner module. Astra say zone two is fine for all of Ireland but the guys who install in the far west would be in a better position than me to comment on this.

Tony

I've heard this too but my thinking is they must have the blessing of Freesat to do this since Freesat own the epg software.

scruffy66 wrote: »

Bush , Grundig seem to have copied their own freesat box and called it sat for free , from what ive heard they've patented this SATFORFREE box for the irish market and the official launch will be in the Guinness hops store sometime in october , Tesco will be selling them for 89 euro ,299 euro fitted ,The satforfree name must be away of getting around the fact that freesat is meant to be only for english license fee payers

byte

Tony wrote: »

I've heard this too but my thinking is theu must have the blessing of Freesat to do this since Freesat own the epg software.

Yeah, I'd expect they have to pay royalties or somesuch to use the EPG data.

Still though, it'd be nice if NI was not the only region available. It'd specifically need ITV1 listed somewhere for interactive ITV-HD (not that I've seen much of any good on it yet).

scruffy66

Yes i was thinking that to ,but if thats the case whats to stop other companies copying the box too and maybe even putting a dtt tuner in it with mpeg 4 ,and calling it freesatTV, anyway i can see every box having there program guide soon enough

mjsmyth

Just to raise a point here...

It clearly says on the Powercity website:

# GRUNDIG HIGH DEFINITION(HD)BOX.

# LOOK AT HD BBC AND HD ITV.

Emm..... yet Kensington is telling us that there is no ITV HD... Anyone spot the problem here??


MJ

Rick_

Can't you do what other people have done with a Grundig Freesat box? Tune in the ITV 1 London feed in the other channels and it will display the Press Red prompt for ITV HD when available. This is what users in Scotland and NI have done to get aroun it and receive ITV HD now.

Tony

If I understand correctly Kensington can only check during the daytime and ITV HD most appears in the evening time sporadicially.

mjsmyth wrote: »

Just to raise a point here...

It clearly says on the Powercity website:

# GRUNDIG HIGH DEFINITION(HD)BOX.

# LOOK AT HD BBC AND HD ITV.

Emm..... yet Kensington is telling us that there is no ITV HD... Anyone spot the problem here??


MJ

mjsmyth

Fair point Paddy... i thought that the Scottish users were setting it up as a London box and adding in the Scots ITV as an extra channel....

Point taken Tony.

I wish I drank coffee.... at least I would feel awake now..

biologikal

Does this Grundig box support DiSEqC, or is it tied to 28E, forever? I'm not completely familiar with the UK Freesat boxes, but understand one (or more) does/do.

coffee to go

Some pics snapped at lunchtime while having a play with one in the Bray store:



















Looks like you'd be able to manually add ITV1 London for ITV HD, but it's not on the EPG out of the box. Didn't have time to see if you could delete channels from the EPG, but you would hope so, as it displays all the BBC regional variations at the end of the list. Also no time to check if you could change postcodes. Definitely the 7 day EPG on it.

Don't really know why anyone would bother when you can get an official Freesat Foxsat for the same price on several Irish websites, and no doubt cheaper in the North.

redout

This thing is identical to the Grundig Freesat box. Only difference I see is that it displays sat4free on the box and epg as opposed to freesat and logo. Also background on this is blue as opposed to black on the official one.

Mayo Exile

Can it do HD? Just in the second picture of the back of the box, I don't see component or HDMI connections. Is that an ethernet port on the right?

TheDriver

Thats prob the SD box on display? Also why are they doing it? So they can sell it here in all the big name stores and possibly know that they (freesat) can inflict some pain on sky in Ireland also. There may also be the possiblity of RTE FTA at some point using these boxes. Will humax follow suit I wonder?
Its a good development as some people wouldn't use online shops etc and can buy it in currys etc without having people coming back in saying their fta box lost channels etc?

Tony

TheDriver wrote: »

Will humax follow suit I wonder?

That would be interesting

byte

Mayo Exile wrote: »

Can it do HD? Just in the second picture of the back of the box, I don't see component or HDMI connections. Is that an ethernet port on the right?

Yeah, that's an ethernet port alright.

It's identical to the Grundig Freesat boxes we have at work. Only some differences in menu colours and of course the logo.

Thanks for the images, coffee to go, good work.

Zaphod

Very interesting and a bit puzzling.

Presumably Grundig got the official OK from Freesat to sell the receiver in ROI? The box seems to be specifically aimed at ROI, rather than continental Europe, as they are using the NI EPG as default.

I'm guessing that C4 doesn't appear on slot 104 on an NI Freesat receiver either as per the screenshot - what's the rationale for this?

It also keeps open the possiblity of RTÉ/TG4 appearing on Freesat using the ITVHD approach. Or if they worked in co-operation with Grundig, get them to incorporate PowerVu or even BISS software into the receiver and dual encrypt the existing streams on 10.744GHz in Videoguard and PowerVu/BISS.

Mylow

coffee to go wrote: »

Don't really know why anyone would bother when you can get an official Freesat Foxsat for the same price on several Irish websites, and no doubt cheaper in the North.

Originally Posted by scruffy66
Bush , Grundig seem to have copied their own freesat box and called it sat for free , from what ive heard they've patented this SATFORFREE box for the irish market and the official launch will be in the Guinness hops store sometime in october , Tesco will be selling them for 89 euro ,299 euro fitted ,The satforfree name must be away of getting around the fact that freesat is meant to be only for english license fee payers

Looks like they will be a lot cheaper than the north if the €89 diy price is correct.

redout

C4 is on the EPG but it appears on number 974. Easy to access, just hit the up arrow BBC1 highlighted and it appears.

TheDriver

Its all good really, for once us Paddy's aren't left behind!! Especially as we can add in other bits via other channels, then its no bad thing

mullingar

Does the manual say anything about the eternet ports functionality? or is it a dummy port?

It would be great if we could use the freesats interactivity planned for this port

redout

The lnb out is a dummy port on the official box.

Kensington

mjsmyth wrote: »

# GRUNDIG HIGH DEFINITION(HD)BOX.

# LOOK AT HD BBC AND HD ITV.

Emm..... yet Kensington is telling us that there is no ITV HD... Anyone spot the problem here??

MJ

All of the ITV and BBC regions are now accessible on the Grundig. Presumably, when a simulcast HD version is available on ITV, the ITV HD channel will become available. But since they (ITV) actually broadcast so little on HD, it's hard to tell when to check.

redout wrote:

C4 is on the EPG but it appears on number 974. Easy to access, just hit the up arrow BBC1 highlighted and it appears.

Any channels you add on manually get sent to the very end of the EPG so if you do tune in extra regional variants, Channel 4 will no longer be placed at the end. Just worth mentioning!

mullingar wrote:

Does the manual say anything about the eternet ports functionality? or is it a dummy port?

It would be great if we could use the freesats interactivity planned for this port

Disabled for the moment - what use it will have (if any) in the future remains to be seen. BBC won't allow access to their On Demand iPlayer service from an IP address outside of the UK at present. Whether this will change in the future is anyone's guess!

muincav

Hi all,
I was in Cavan town today in a TV and electrical shop and they were selling the Humax Foxsat HD Freesat Set Top Box for 199 euro, and yes before you all ask it was FREESAT and not sat4free.
Not sure if he is supposed to be selling them but he is and says he cant wait for the Freesat PVR to arrive....:D