BMW 535d... the perfect car?

Anan1

daRobot wrote: »

With a Dms remap, it'll give you 340bhp, 0-60 in 5.7 and still give you about 35ish mpg.

Just not all at the same time.;)

Ferris

Anan1 wrote: »

You might be surprised at how much 911 you can get for €25k these days. Remember also that a 3-year-old 535d is far from finished depreciating - that cost alone should more than cover the Porsche servicing bills over say 3 years. Finally, i'd make no such assumptions regarding maintenance costs on a big BMW as it reaches middle age.

Yeah but a 3yr old 5 Series with a big engine and a decent spec for 25k represents serious value for money. Comparison with a porsche is a bit off as they are different types of cars, i.e you wont get 5 adults in a porsche. Compare it with a new mondeo however - I know which one i'd rather drive.

Your point on reliability/being out of warranty is well made however, I'd hate to have to replace the turbos on one of these $$$$$$$$.

VH

daRobot wrote: »

I think for all round mix of performance, economy and comfort, there's few packages that'll come close to the 535d.

they said the same thing about the graf spee:)

maidhc

VH wrote: »

they said the same thing about the graf spee:)

What else is there though for that sort of money with a decent turn of speed and that is economical and practical? Skoda Octavia 1.9 TDI?

Re maintenance:

I know if things start going wrong the car could easily turn into a money pit, but they are a very common car within reason and parts should be easy to source. BMWs are quite reliable anyway by all accounts. The lowly Fords I have owned to date have been faultless, and i'd be dissappointed if a well maintained 5 would be any different. I have two uncles with aging BMWs (95 & 99) and both are perfect.

TomMc

535d - The Perfect Car ? Only if a company is paying the bills!

Maidhc, don't wish to spoil your dream but going from a Focus to a 535d is a step too far too soon.

If you thinking along the lines of 25k, plus tax, insurance, fuel bills that is only part of the story. Believe me the other running costs on a 535d will make your eyes water in comparison to a 1800cc Ford. Add on bills for tyres, brake pads/discs and other consumable items as the miles wear on. And that is before you account for servicing costs :eek: , and assuming nothing serious goes wrong.:eek::eek:

Remember this is a 80K+ car new and you really need to be of those means to be able to afford one in its entirety, otherwise insolvency may result. Add depreciation to the mix as well to top things off and it could be the most injudicious decision of your life.

As a means of rapid transport they are a great performance car/practical saloon for everyday driving/use, but still just a 5-Series with added gusto and not much else. You might find that the added power just gives you a longing for more and more and when the honeymoon period wears off (it will soon enough) you might just crave a proper sports car instead. Never meet your heros and all that ....

///

If you like your Focus, maybe be a used (diesel) ST Mondeo would be an option.

TheBazman

[QUOTE=TomMc;

Remember this is a 80K+ car new and you really need to be of those means to be able to afford one in its entirety, otherwise insolvency may result. Add depreciation to the mix as well to top things off and it could be the most injudicious decision of your life.

[/QUOTE]

Surely if the OP were to pick one up for close to 25k (which is a bit of an ask I will admit) then that takes most of the depreciation problem away? Also I dont see you having to be of 80k+ means to run one. If you were to pick up a decent second hand one for say 35 - 40k and run it for 3 years - what would the extra costs be above a diesel modeo ST that you suggest? Maybe servicing/tyres/tax (without working it out) maybe 2k extra per year on the 535d so thats 6k over 3years. I'm not sure where you see the need to be of 80k+ means.

Anyway I do agree with what someone else said - its not going to be the perfect car for everyone, however in a general sense it would come very close to it for most people.

Ferris

TheBazman wrote: »

Surely if the OP were to pick one up for close to 25k (which is a bit of an ask I will admit) then that takes most of the depreciation problem away? Also I dont see you having to be of 80k+ means to run one. If you were to pick up a decent second hand one for say 35 - 40k and run it for 3 years - what would the extra costs be above a diesel modeo ST that you suggest? Maybe servicing/tyres/tax (without working it out) maybe 2k extra per year on the 535d so thats 6k over 3years. I'm not sure where you see the need to be of 80k+ means.

Anyway I do agree with what someone else said - its not going to be the perfect car for everyone, however in a general sense it would come very close to it for most people.

+1 If you were to look at a 2005 535d against a new Mondeo ST Diesel I would say that the cost of ownership of the Ford would be greater over 3 years. Cars in Ireland currently lose 50% of their value in the first 3yrs so spending 35k on a new mondeo is going to cost 17.5k in depretiation. The 535d would have taken this hit already and would depretiate to a far lesser degree. Important to remember however that the BMW will cost more to tax, fuel and service but I still think that the total cost of ownership would be less.

As I have said its a pretty clear decision, the only real worry is that you would have little or no warranty with a 2005 car.

TomMc

I'm speaking metaphorically. Not that you need an extra 50K in your pocket but you need to have the disposable income of someone who does. Otherwise you are living well beyond your means.

What I'm saying is that you really cannot afford to run a car like that if you are thinking within a limited or finite budget. If you are use to running a 1800cc Ford, to think a 3000cc Twin Turbo BMW isn't in a completely different world (financially speaking) or underestimating what happens in reality, is been a bit wet between the ears. It is the unforeseen costs along the way, not to mention BMW dealer servicing bills (especially if you are not versed in same), that is a real rude awakening. These cars are complex (especially when things go wrong, my local BMW dealer can take days to fix even relatively simple things) and also you cannot work with spurious or generic parts to the same degree you can with a Ford. You need deep pockets so lets not bury our heads in the sand and give the impression that is is not such a leap forward into the unknown. So overall a 535d is not for the uniniated. Start with an older model 530d if you really must.

It sounds a bit snotty and I'd don't mean to be honest - but the old adage of if you have to ask you cannot afford.

Lots of motorists could buy a (once 80K new car) for 25/30K second hand but they know full well that they do not have the means to run one. So they settle for something up to and under 2.0L - (New VRT/Tax system will change things slightly). They may feel the added cost is not justified or worth it. Law of diminsing returns and all that. They also know that while they may be able to afford a bigger car on the face of things, we don't live in a utopia and it is the hidden costs you cannot account for in advance that make a car unaffordable.

And even with the 535d there will come a point (and when the purchase price is within many peoples budget), when the potential running costs of a used example out of warranty with hit their kerb appeal, just like many 4.0/5.0L Jags, Mercs et all now. Even allowing for the 535d' more economical fuel consumption, and they may not become orphans, but will not be so easy to sell on as 5,6,7 yr old cars. Depreciation will still be a factor especially for a quick sale.

TomMc

Ferris wrote: »

+1 If you were to look at a 2005 535d against a new Mondeo ST Diesel I would say that the cost of ownership of the Ford would be greater over 3 years. Cars in Ireland currently lose 50% of their value in the first 3yrs so spending 35k on a new mondeo is going to cost 17.5k in depretiation. The 535d would have taken this hit already and would depretiate to a far lesser degree. Important to remember however that the BMW will cost more to tax, fuel and service but I still think that the total cost of ownership would be less.

As I have said its a pretty clear decision, the only real worry is that you would have little or no warranty with a 2005 car.

Buying most cars new will result in 50% depreciation in 3 years. You buy a 2/3 year old example of the Mondeo and your argument is now invalid.

And one service alone on our 2005 535d cost more than all five on our 2.0L Legacy put together, both of the same vintage. That is the real world.

Ferris

TomMc wrote: »

So overall a 535d is not for the uniniated. Start with an older model 530d if you really must.

I don't believe that there is a difference in the running costs. Reliability wise the older 530d's are more likely to injest the swirl flaps from the inlet manifold which will write off the car.

With 3yr old car i'd be heading for the specialists with regard towards servicing anyway which would cut costs, actually something you can't do if you have a car under warranty.

TomMc wrote: »

And even with the 535d there will come a point (and when the purchase price is within many peoples budget), when the potential running costs of a used example out of warranty with hit their kerb appeal, just like many 4.0/5.0L Jags, Mercs et all now. Even allowing for the 535d' more economical fuel consumption, and they may not become orphans, but will not be so easy to sell on as 5,6,7 yr old cars. Depreciation will still be a factor especially for a quick sale.

Quite possible, but the same can be said of any car with an engine size of over 2L and all other 530d's. i believe that the 535d has a little of the cult status and would be more likely to shift than say a 320 cdi or a 530d. For example I recently has very little trouble selling a GT Tdi golf mk4 for decent money for this reason.

TomMc wrote: »

Buying most cars new will result in 50% depreciation in 3 years. You buy a 2/3 year old example of the Mondeo and your argument is now invalid.

And one service alone on our 2005 535d cost more than all five on our 2.0L Legacy put together, both of the same vintage. That is the real world.

True if you are comparing cars of similar years but I was making the point to the op that what would he rather drive for his 25-30k, a repmobile mondeo or something that goes like the space shuttle.

As i said as the BMW would be most likely out of warranty I would get it serviced independantly.

TomMc

Well it just shows you what a "GT" badge adds to a TDI - but we don't want another one of those threads. It is just a cosmetic label.

Where a 535d and a 530d are concerned the difference is mechanical and so are the running costs.

Also there are loads more cars I would prefer to the 535d that cost roughly the same outlay, but not when they can only manage 15>20mpg.

Cyrus

i would echo some of what tom is saying, the cost of running a car is always proportional to its initial cost rather than what you pay for it, that said there are plenty of very good bmw independants around and if the car is out of warranty thats where i would go.

tyres, brake discs, pads, engine oil etc, all these things are 3-4 times the price but if you go in with your eyes open then its not a problem

@ Anan1 how much porker can i get for 25k, im thinking of a 911 next, budget would be more like 35-40k, some advice much appreciated, maybe via pm so as not to derail this thread

Ferris

TomMc wrote: »

Well it just shows you what a "GT" badge adds to a TDI - but we don't want another one of those threads. It is just a cosmetic label.

Defo don't want another thread on that but my point is that a special/cult/cool car will sell easier.

TomMc wrote: »

Where a 535d and a 530d are concerned the difference is mechanical and so are the running costs.

Also there are loads more cars I would prefer to the 535d that cost roughly the same outlay, but not when they can only manage 15>20mpg.

TBH I totally agree whats being said about the 535d being expensive to maintain but its not more so than most other bmw's and certainly not in the m3's league.

maidhc

TomMc wrote: »

I'm speaking metaphorically. Not that you need an extra 50K in your pocket but you need to have the disposable income of someone who does. Otherwise you are living well beyond your means.

Well:

My salary now compared to when I bought the focus is very different, and unless the bottom really really falls out of the pan as regards the economy will improve a lot over the coming 12 mths.

I service the focus myself and it has only once been to a mechanic in 3 years, to get the timing belt done. The BMW would be more complicated, but hell, it will never see a main dealer, and that is for sure.

Brakepads are an expense evey 40 -60k, I can deal with that. I have never replaced brake discs in a car, even on the mondeo which has 210k up. (must be my style of driving ) Tyres will be expensive, but I can cope with that every 2 years.

I have never had a car under warranty, and am happy to live with the risk!

I don't see the difference between the 530d and 535d other than a small turbo. Certainly a 530d manual would be a (slightly) more sensible car, but sheep as for a lamb! A s/h Mondeo ST TDCi would be an option, but at a much lower price point with much lower expectations.

As for depreciation.... I don't care, I will be keeping the car 5 or so years and it will be worthless then anyway.

Ferris

maidhc wrote: »

Well:

My salary now compared to when I bought the focus is very different, and unless the bottom really really falls out of the pan as regards the economy will improve a lot over the coming 12 mths.

I service the focus myself and it has only once been to a mechanic in 3 years, to get the timing belt done. The BMW would be more complicated, but hell, it will never see a main dealer, and that is for sure.

Brakepads are an expense evey 40 -60k, I can deal with that. I have never replaced brake discs in a car, even on the mondeo which has 210k up. (must be my style of driving ) Tyres will be expensive, but I can cope with that every 2 years.

I have never had a car under warranty, and am happy to live with the risk!

I don't see the difference between the 530d and 535d other than a small turbo. Certainly a 530d manual would be a (slightly) more sensible car, but sheep as for a lamb! A s/h Mondeo ST TDCi would be an option, but at a much lower price point with much lower expectations.

As for depreciation.... I don't care, I will be keeping the car 5 or so years and it will be worthless then anyway.

from Honest john:

General Warning about Automatic Transmissions: Many BMWs have "sealed for life" automatic transmissions. Regardless of whether you have a full BMW service history, the dealer will never change the auto fluid. Many of these boxes are failing around the 120-150k mark - often well outside of warranty and to a cost of £3.5k plus VAT. A good independent or automatic transmission specialist can and will change the fluid for you (and any good BMW independents will recommend this anyway). This is commonplace in the US and means the 'box should last the life of the car rather than being the cause of it being written off. General advice is ensure the fluid is flushed out every 60k or more preferably at each Inspection II.

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/index.htm?md=537&

I am in a very similar situation to yourself and have been looking to buy a nice jammer, nothing has caught my eye but I have been considering the 535d. Research the cost of runflat tyres too as these can be very pricey and I'd say that the car can tear the rear ones up pretty quickly.

TheBazman

Ferris wrote: »

I am in a very similar situation to yourself and have been looking to buy a nice jammer, nothing has caught my eye but I have been considering the 535d. Research the cost of runflat tyres too as these can be very pricey and I'd say that the car can tear the rear ones up pretty quickly.

I have just over 50k kms on mine and the rears are prob due to be replaced in the next 5k kms

Matt Simis

TomMc wrote: »

Remember this is a 80K+ car new and you really need to be of those means to be able to afford one in its entirety, otherwise insolvency may result. Add depreciation to the mix as well to top things off and it could be the most injudicious decision of your life.

snip

If you like your Focus, maybe be a used (diesel) ST Mondeo would be an option.

I hear what your saying, but Im also not convinced. My Phaeton was EUR130k new here (not that anyone bought one..). Last VW service was EUR900 including changing fuel filter and rear middle brake light at my request. Thats about EUR200 more than a VW Beetle service.

They also wanted EUR1400 to change the brake pads all round, I did it myself for about EUR300 (using EBC Redstuff, same part goes on the RS4 and Gallardo, all use the same Brembo 8pot).

Now obviously BMW labour is more, but my point is a couple of hundred Euro more for a service is not an issue for anyone spending 30k ish on a car. The rest you hopefully can do yourself (brakes, wiper blades etc).


To the OP: Incidentally we are around the same age, but I wouldnt recommend the 3.0TDI Phaeton as even though it gets the 35MPG its too "relaxed" nor the 5.0TDI as its fast but eats fuel (24ish MPG the way I drive) compared to your target.

tallaghtoutlaws

xbox36016 wrote: »

my dad had a 530 d and no a 335 d and he is 51

xbox36016 wrote: »

whan my dad was 26 he had a bmw 525i and that was 21 years a go

Is your Dad 47 or 51 or does he age 4 years in the space of a few hours

OP Buy the car you want really. People told me I was stupid to buy the a 05 520i last year but I have never looked back being honest sure it wastes petrol but hey i love the car. I never was one for practicallity though.

E92

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Is your Dad 47 or 51 or does he age 4 years in the space of a few hours

OP Buy the car you want really. People told me I was stupid to buy the a 05 520i last year but I have never looked back being honest sure it wastes petrol but hey i love the car. I never was one for practicallity though.

520is are brilliant cars.

Yes they're slow but that means you get to hear that silky smooth straight 6 more often, and it makes a great noise when extended as well:D.

The ideal solution for a country so obsessed by pint sized engines:)!

Anyhoo back on topic: OP are you ever going to buy a proper petrol powered car?

If you like cars enough to be looking at a 535d at your age, then why not go the whole hog and look at something like an M3?

Having said that if you want a big saloon that goes like stink and provides sensible fuel consumption then you can't beat a 535d.

I'm very surprised by the comments questioning reliability, the 535d's engine is based on the 530d engine and that engine is a well proven design, after all the M57 first saw the light of day in the original revolutionary 530d, the first diesel you'd ever willingly want to choose over the petrol equivalent. I've never heard of any reliability issues with BMW's straight 6 diesel; the turbo problem was exclusively a 4 cylinder problem from 02-04. I think a handful of 6 cylinder models had it too but it was much rarer.

The 535d did the same thing again when it came out, only better; power outputs close to the V8 petrol 5 series with fuel consumption marginally better than the 6 pot petrol 5 series.

Yes it will be dearer than a Focus to run, but then again it also cost a heck of a lot more to buy in the first place.

I don't see any reason why a well maintained 535d(and let's face it, only a car enthusiast would buy a 535d) wouldn't give anything other than trouble free motoring. Yes you could land yourself with a money pit but that could happen any car.

The E60 has proven to be a reliable car now that BMW have cured the iDrive glitches that affected the early models. The tyre pressure system can go AWOL too but that seems to be it really.

Cyrus

E92 wrote: »

520is are brilliant cars.

Yes they're slow but that means you get to hear that silky smooth straight 6 more often, and it makes a great noise when extended as well:D.

The ideal solution for a country so obsessed by pint sized engines:)!

Anyhoo back on topic: OP are you ever going to buy a proper petrol powered car?

If you like cars enough to be looking at a 535d at your age, then why not go the whole hog and look at something like an M3?

Having said that if you want a big saloon that goes like stink and provides sensible fuel consumption then you can't beat a 535d.

I'm very surprised by the comments questioning reliability, the 535d's engine is based on the 530d engine and that engine is a well proven design, after all the M57 first saw the light of day in the original revolutionary 530d, the first diesel you'd ever willingly want to choose over the petrol equivalent. I've never heard of any reliability issues with BMW's straight 6 diesel; the turbo problem was exclusively a 4 cylinder problem from 02-04. I think a handful of 6 cylinder models had it too but it was much rarer.

The 535d did the same thing again when it came out, only better; power outputs close to the V8 petrol 5 series with fuel consumption marginally better than the 6 pot petrol 5 series.

Yes it will be dearer than a Focus to run, but then again it also cost a heck of a lot more to buy in the first place.

I don't see any reason why a well maintained 535d(and let's face it, only a car enthusiast would buy a 535d) wouldn't give anything other than trouble free motoring. Yes you could land yourself with a money pit but that could happen any car.

The E60 has proven to be a reliable car now that BMW have cured the iDrive glitches that affected the early models. The tyre pressure system can go AWOL too but that seems to be it really.

the 530d had turbo issues too i think, but you are right in that the e39 and the e60s are generally reliable cars

oh and the e39 530i was a faster and better car than the 530d, same as in the e60

maidhc

E92 wrote: »

Anyhoo back on topic: OP are you ever going to buy a proper petrol powered car?

If you like cars enough to be looking at a 535d at your age, then why not go the whole hog and look at something like an M3?

I don't like the 3 series. I wish i could, but I don't. They remind me of Avensi. I know the M3 is a great car, but the running costs would be a bit too much... I'd cry at the petrol pumps.

Oh, and in case you never noticed.... I like diesels. :pac:

Thanks to all the contributors though, this is a useful thread indeed. I especially like hearing about people who do their own work on these cars. I really won't be giving a fiddlers for maintaining a fsh, because quite frankly it adds nothing to the value of a car once it is a few years old.

mick.fr

Cyrus wrote: »

oh and the e39 530i was a faster and better car than the 530d, same as in the e60

Let's be serious for a sec here...

mick.fr

maidhc wrote: »

I don't see the difference between the 530d and 535d other than a small turbo.

Difference is pretty big mate.
A small remap of the 535d and it has more power and torque than a E46 M3. You can double the torque actually.
530d is still a very descent car, remap would boost it too, but not as high as the 535d.

maidhc

mick.fr wrote: »

Difference is pretty big mate.
A small remap of the 535d and it has more power and torque than a E46 M3. You can double the torque actually.
530d is still a very descent car, remap would boost it too, but not as high as the 535d.

I know, I was just referring to mechanical complexity and that which might be called "complications".

E92

mick.fr wrote: »

Let's be serious for a sec here...

Yes indeed lets be serious, 231 bhp is a lot more than 193 bhp, that's why the E39 530i is quicker than the E39 530d, therefore better.

But that's neither here nor there, the fastest 6 pot E60 is the 535d, so if you want serious performance without V8 fuel consumption then the 535d is your car. Such a pity BMW doesn't offer the 535i in Europe with the 335i's straight 6 petrol.

If anyone thinks the 535d isn't fast, then this 535d will show you that these cars really can move(have a sneaking suspicion the 535d in the vid is chipped though:o).

It even sounds good too, for a diesel of course;)!

Biro

E92 wrote: »

If anyone thinks the 535d isn't fast, then this 535d will show you that these cars really can move(have a sneaking suspicion the 535d in the vid is chipped though:o).

Definately chipped, and probably more. Look at the video of the stock one going from 100 - 200kph, takes longer than that one does to get from 0 - 200!

maidhc

E92 wrote: »

Yes indeed lets be serious, 231 bhp is a lot more than 193 bhp, that's why the E39 530i is quicker than the E39 530d, therefore better.

Does the E60 530d not have 218 bhp though?

In which case the extra torque of the diesel will easily outweigh the difference in power (this is not up for discussion. It is my opinion, and like Maggie, I will not be moved!)

I don't think I'd buy an E39. Fine car, but a very very old design, even older than my current focus mk1. It looks quite dated.

Darragh29

mick.fr wrote: »

Difference is pretty big mate.
A small remap of the 535d and it has more power and torque than a E46 M3. You can double the torque actually.
530d is still a very descent car, remap would boost it too, but not as high as the 535d.

Double the torque???

Can we possibly have some data to back up some of the claims being made here???

Some of what I'm reading here, you wouldn't hear out of a 5th year school student with designs on being a mechanic...

robbie99

maidhc wrote: »

In which case the extra torque of the diesel will easily outweigh the difference in power (this is not up for discussion. It is my opinion, and like Maggie, I will not be moved!)

:eek: :rolleyes:

no point in debating this then, besides it will be OT

bazz26

Forget about all this BMW lark. Get yourself one of these next year:

http://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Jaguar/XJ-Series/3.0-XJ6/1219448/

This is what all the big wig solicitors will drive while they handle all the legal stuff between property developers and the banks over the next couple of years.