Club or country?

OhNoYouDidn't · 29-09-2008 4:16pm

Country winning major international tournament

Helix wrote: »

why do you automatically assume that people who support english clubs dont understand this, or go to games regularly?

Experience.

The reason I would rather see Rovers win a corner than Ireland win the world cup is that under Charlton and McCarthy I, and many others, became alienated from the team and the new found supporters.

Basically I feel no affinity to a team of foreigners with tenious links to Ireland using it as a vehicle to further their careers. Under Kerr this improved, but I get a sinking feeling when I see Kieran Westwoods name in the Irish setup under Trap.

Also the fan culture at the Irish games is simply appalling, especially away from home. I have better things to be doing than spending money to stand beside middle aged men in leprechaun suits vomiting everywhere and telling the locals that they love the Irish. I have also found a distinct lack of understanding of the game and terrace culture from a large chunk of the Irish support.

And I suppose its as simple as this as well. Rovers is better fun. The stories from away trips beat any Ole Ole adventure.

_blank_ · 29-09-2008 4:17pm

Country winning major international tournament

Helix wrote: »

there are plenty who go to every home game

i know loads of united fans who go to most matches (home and away), i go to every home game for villa (and see the same 5 or 6 faces on the flight every week, so they do too), and i know a good few who go to at least 7 or 8 scouse games a week too

thats a big pool of people for 1 person to be able to list straight away

I regularly watch the CL with 2 United fans and a Chelsea fan.

The Chelsea and one of the United have never been to ANY EPL game in their lives.

The other United hasn't been to a game in at least six years, possibly more.

In fact, the two United lads have asked me to source tickets for them for a United game this season.

Will I fúck.

Another United lad hasn't been to a game since I went over with him to see United play Boro in OT, Veron was still playing, and United lost 0-1 I think.

My dad and Brother, and my brother's friends all support EPL teams, and they haven't been over in years either. My brother got tickets for Anfield for his 18th, he's 25 now. As I said earlier my dad hasn't been since the mid 70s.

Melion · 29-09-2008 4:18pm

Country winning major international tournament

Club without a doubt. I dont even watch Ireland on TV anymore

CiaranC · 29-09-2008 4:20pm

Country winning major international tournament

Helix wrote: »

there are plenty who go to every home game

i know loads of united fans who go to most matches (home and away), i go to every home game for villa (and see the same 5 or 6 faces on the flight every week, so they do too), and i know a good few who go to at least 7 or 8 scouse games a week too

thats a big pool of people for 1 person to be able to list straight away

So you know (the faces of) 7 people who travel to Villa matches regularly and you think thats a 'big pool of people'. Youre a gas man.

_blank_ · 29-09-2008 4:20pm

Country winning major international tournament

Melion wrote: »

Club without a doubt. I dont even watch Ireland on TV anymore

I do, and I cheer for the opposition. Even if it's England.

Melion · 29-09-2008 4:22pm

Country winning major international tournament

Des wrote: »

I do, and I cheer for the opposition. Even if it's England.

, im not quite at that level but i just couldnt give a tóss about our national team.

Helix · 29-09-2008 4:30pm

Country winning major international tournament

CiaranC wrote: »

So you know (the faces of) 7 people who travel to Villa matches regularly and you think thats a 'big pool of people'. Youre a gas man.

thats people going to aston villa games, we're not a particularly well supported club. im one bloke, and off the top of my head i know of a good 30-40 people who go to support their english teams at least once a month

thats a bloody big pool of people for one bloke

Nalz · 29-09-2008 4:33pm

Both teams I follow are too sh[i]i[/i]te to ever be in that situation

Des wrote: »

I do, and I cheer for the opposition. Even if it's England.

Des you have your reasons and I except that. But wat would it take for you to get behind the Ireland team?

Guy:Incognito · 29-09-2008 4:36pm

Country winning major international tournament

Publin wrote: »

y. If you love your country so much, why don't you support an Irish team instead of an English one?
.

Why would I support an Irish club if I love my country? I have the best of both worlds, I support an international team thats successful and a club that has had it's share of success in the time I've been supporting them. I've no need to support Ireland or an Irish team.

Btw , any time I'm in Anfield theres plenty of English accents about that are not Liverpudlian.

LuckyLloyd · 29-09-2008 4:37pm

Both teams I follow are too sh[i]i[/i]te to ever be in that situation

This thread is great. So far we have:

Cork people hating on Dublin people because Cork is obviously better;
EL people hating on the FAI, EPL fans, Oirish fans, the Irish players and just about anyone who they can think up a reason to be bitter about and thus strengthen their sense of martyrdom;
EPL fans hating on international football because international fixtures interrupt the Premiership schedule a few times a year;
Soccer fans hating on "rugger" people;

I've probably missed a bit of hating some where along the line.

Well, I just rechecked my passport and it says "Eire Ireland" on it. I'd wager a lot of money on the fact that the passports of Richard Dunne, Robbie Keane, Glenn Whelan, John O' Shea, Shay Given, Kevin Doyle, Stephen Hunt say the exact same thing. And if the passport of Kevin Kilbahne doesn't, it doesn't really matter when he turns up over 90 times for us - and belts the national anthem out and then bursts his bollocks off for us on the pitch. Equally, I'm not sure the recent trip to Mainz and Montenegro helped further the club careers of Steve Finnan, Aidan McGeady and Steven Reid.

This rubbish that the players are not Irish is LOL. And the team is the national team - that means it is for all of the Irish people who wish to engage with it. Not just those who will be watching some form of football the week before or after. If someone tells you to sit down at a sporting event tell them to stick it up their gash. That goes whether it's a rugby match aswell. Don't sit down for them and spend the rest of your life complaining about it on a message board. :rolleyes:

The Ireland / Portugal game at landsdowne in June 2001 was the most stirred I've ever been at any sporting match I've ever attended. I guess Roy Keane didn't get the memo that the Oirish fans and English players and FAI make the whole thing a sham.

Nalz · 29-09-2008 4:40pm

Both teams I follow are too sh[i]i[/i]te to ever be in that situation

Stekelly wrote: »

I support an international team thats successful and a club that has had it's share of success in the time I've been supporting them

:eek:

Its international. What has our poor country done on you?

Guy:Incognito · 29-09-2008 4:41pm

Country winning major international tournament

Trilla wrote: »

:eek:

Its international. What has our poor country done on you?

Very little. In fact it's housed me for the last 27 odd years. I just choose the more successful alternative.

CHD · 29-09-2008 4:43pm

Both teams I follow are too sh[i]i[/i]te to ever be in that situation

Trilla wrote: »

Des you have your reasons and I except that. But wat would it take for you to get behind the Ireland team?

It's accept :eek:

Publin · 29-09-2008 4:45pm

Country winning major international tournament

Stekelly wrote: »

Why would I support an Irish club if I love my country?

That's like asking me why would you buy Irish beef if you wanted to support the Irish farmers. If you love your country and everything about it, why would you choose to support a club in another country? Actualy, not just another country, but probably our greatest rivals/enemies in football terms anyway.

Stekelly wrote: »

I have the best of both worlds, I support an international team thats successful and a club that has had it's share of success in the time I've been supporting them.

So it's all down to success? There's a term for that. It's called glory hunting. Anyway, Bohs, Shels, Pats, Cork have all had their share of success too, but that's not why (mostly) we support them.

Stekelly wrote: »

I've no need to support Ireland or an Irish team.

Ok then, I was referring to people who do support Ireland. I thought you did.

Stekelly wrote: »

Btw , any time I'm in Anfield theres plenty of English accents about that are not Liverpudlian.

Sorry, I don't see the relevance of this point?

Helix · 29-09-2008 4:47pm

Country winning major international tournament

Publin wrote: »

That's like asking me why would you buy Irish beef if you wanted to support the Irish farmers. If you love your country and everything about it, why would you choose to support a club in another country? Actualy, not just another country, but probably our greatest rivals/enemies in football terms anyway.

why would you choose to like non irish music, food, sports, art, tv shows etc etc

CiaranC · 29-09-2008 4:47pm

Country winning major international tournament

Helix wrote: »

thats people going to aston villa games, we're not a particularly well supported club. im one bloke, and off the top of my head i know of a good 30-40 people who go to support their english teams at least once a month

Aston Villa average about 40000 dont they? How well do you know these 40 lads? By that rationale, I know about 800 lads who go to see their team at least once every two weeks. :rolleyes:

Stekelly wrote:

Why would I support an Irish club if I love my country? I have the best of both worlds, I support an international team thats successful and a club that has had it's share of success in the time I've been supporting them. I've no need to support Ireland or an Irish team.

Works both ways. LOI fans support Irish clubs, so see less of a reason to pay through the nose to sit in GAA headquarters with crap fans watching a bunch of guys who play in England to whom they feel little connection.

Ive been going to Ireland matches for 20 years, I just no longer really feel part of it. Ive nothing in common with the fans, players, FAI, event junkies or corporates who go.

Btw, your statement that it would be acceptable to follow Cork was shot down. No comment, is it?

Publin · 29-09-2008 4:49pm

Country winning major international tournament

Helix wrote: »

why would you choose to like non irish music, food, sports, art, tv shows etc etc

We're not talking about "liking". We're talking about supporting. I think it's clear to most the point I was making.

EDIT: Just to be clear, I was referring to those EPL fans saying you should put country ahead of club. If they're so worried about supporting the country and the national side, why don't they support a team from the national league?

Nalz · 29-09-2008 4:49pm

Both teams I follow are too sh[i]i[/i]te to ever be in that situation

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This thread is great. So far we have:

Cork people hating on Dublin people because Cork is obviously better;
EL people hating on the FAI, EPL fans, Oirish fans, the Irish players and just about anyone who they can think up a reason to be bitter about and thus strengthen their sense of martyrdom;
EPL fans hating on international football because international fixtures interrupt the Premiership schedule a few times a year;
Soccer fans hating on "rugger" people;

You could argue those down to the ground.

The Cork/Dublin thing, I havta laugh at that one alright.

LOI fans, well some do hate anything/anyone that looks down on them or doesnt give them attention/support whatever. But there are valid points to back them on that too. Hating the national team, yeah maybe a bit much alright, but the organisation behind the national team aren't the greatest I've ever witnessed.

International football no matter how poor it is, is the greatest honour a player can get. Sure clubs pay the players wages, but national pride is a human thing and can never be bettered for alot of people. So the fixtures thing, na its fine for me.

I still hate the minority of Rugger fans that think they're better than others

,the whole southside snobbyness etc. But I dislike the game fullstop anyway so meh....

Guy:Incognito · 29-09-2008 4:52pm

Country winning major international tournament

CiaranC wrote: »

Btw, your statement that it would be acceptable to follow Cork was shot down. No comment, is it?

TBH it's seems I was giving EL fans more credit than was due. Looks like I'm not allowed support a team unless I live within X amount of miles of the ground, but if I get a new job and rent a house in Cork I'm allowed follow them.

Either way, I only picked Cork as Turners cross was the first place I thought of when I needed somewhere 135 ish miles away, turns out I was bang on.

stovelid · 29-09-2008 4:58pm

Country winning major international tournament

Des wrote: »

I do, and I cheer for the opposition. Even if it's England.

LOL.

As far as internationals go, I like to see England do well as I was born there. Clichéd I know, but nothing more bizarre than being told off in a pub for clapping an England goal by EPL supporters.

. Sure it happens all the time.

OhNoYouDidn't · 29-09-2008 4:59pm

Country winning major international tournament

Stekelly wrote: »

Very little. In fact it's housed me for the last 27 odd years. I just choose the more successful alternative.

Which, ironocally, is the issue many people have with the Ole Ole's.

CiaranC · 29-09-2008 4:59pm

Country winning major international tournament

Stekelly wrote: »

TBH it's seems I was giving EL fans more credit than was due. Looks like I'm not allowed support a team unless I live within X amount of miles of the ground, but if I get a new job and rent a house in Cork I'm allowed follow them.

Either way, I only picked Cork as Turners cross was the first place I thought of when I needed somewhere 135 ish miles away, turns out I was bang on.

I dont think any Cork fan would object to someone who has put down roots in the community supporting the club, no. More IFs though. IF this, IF that. IF your auntie had balls shed be your uncle.

_blank_ · 29-09-2008 5:01pm

Country winning major international tournament

Trilla wrote: »

Des you have your reasons and I except that. But wat would it take for you to get behind the Ireland team?

fai disbandment, and john delaney getting the guillotine.

Publin · 29-09-2008 5:02pm

Country winning major international tournament

Stekelly wrote: »

TBH it's seems I was giving EL fans more credit than was due. Looks like I'm not allowed support a team unless I live within X amount of miles of the ground, but if I get a new job and rent a house in Cork I'm allowed follow them.

Nobody has said who you're "allowed" support. You can support whoever you want. I addressed this already. It would just be a bit weird for you to randomly pick Cork if you've no association with them, don't live there etc. It would make far more sense to support a nearby club, even if you've no association with them yet, simply from the point of view of becoming "part" of the club - attending games regularly, drinking in their bars, popping into the club shop, and so on.

stovelid wrote: »

Clichéd I know, but nothing more bizarre than being told off in a pub for clapping an England goal by EPL supporters. . Sure it happens all the time.

You could tell them you're just cheering 'cos Rooney/Gerrard scored and you support United/Liverpool. Then berate the United/Liverpool fans for not being "real" fans and supporting their club's players from their barstool :pac:.

stovelid · 29-09-2008 5:04pm

Country winning major international tournament

Stekelly wrote: »

I just choose the more successful alternative.

You support the more successful alternative that hasn't won the league since you were you were 9? By this reckoning, you would have switched allegiance between Liverpool, Blackburn, Manchester United, Arsenal and Chelsea in your lifetime?

Pure Cork · 29-09-2008 5:04pm

Country winning major international tournament

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This thread is great. So far we have:

Cork people hating on Dublin people because Cork is obviously better;
EL people hating on the FAI, EPL fans, Oirish fans, the Irish players and just about anyone who they can think up a reason to be bitter about and thus strengthen their sense of martyrdom;
EPL fans hating on international football because international fixtures interrupt the Premiership schedule a few times a year;
Soccer fans hating on "rugger" people;

There was only one post in the thread that I saw about Cork people hating Dubs, and I didn't write it.

You forgot EPL fans hating the LOI, LOI fans, the FAI, and complaining that LOI fans are traitors for not supporting the "national team".

Pure Cork · 29-09-2008 5:08pm

Country winning major international tournament

Stekelly wrote: »

TBH it's seems I was giving EL fans more credit than was due. Looks like I'm not allowed support a team unless I live within X amount of miles of the ground, but if I get a new job and rent a house in Cork I'm allowed follow them.

Either way, I only picked Cork as Turners cross was the first place I thought of when I needed somewhere 135 ish miles away, turns out I was bang on.

LMAO! Your logic and arguments are hilarious.

Publin wrote: »

Nobody has said who you're "allowed" support. You can support whoever you want. I addressed this already. It would just be a bit weird for you to randomly pick Cork if you've no association with them, don't live there etc. It would make far more sense to support a nearby club, even if you've no association with them yet, simply from the point of view of becoming "part" of the club - attending games regularly, drinking in their bars, popping into the club shop, and so on.

What he said.

CiaranC · 29-09-2008 5:09pm

Country winning major international tournament

I know one of the major factors in my disinterest in Ireland games any more is the type of fan there and the lack of atmosphere. I know this happens to an extent already, but would a dedicated section of the ground, marketed as such by the FAI, where tickets are only available through clubs here, help. I mean a section made up of Irish football fans, ultras and supporters groups only, which was known as such a section. It would show the difference between fans who go to games week in, week out and the OleOle brigades, promote the atmosphere of the league matches etc, and create a better atmosphere as a whole at the home matches, much the same as dedicated sections do at European/South American club venues.

Publin · 29-09-2008 5:10pm

Country winning major international tournament

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This rubbish that the players are not Irish is LOL. And the team is the national team - that means it is for all of the Irish people who wish to engage with it. Not just those who will be watching some form of football the week before or after.

Do you not see why it is so hard for people to engage with the national side, when the players aren't Irish? We have no connection with the players - we don't watch them play live every week, they don't live here, some aren't Irish and probably wouldn't consider themselves as Irish - when we've nothing in common with them, how are we supposed to feel any affinity towards the team?

Then add in all other extras like the FAI, olé olé brigade and so on.

Pure Cork · 29-09-2008 5:13pm

Country winning major international tournament

Publin wrote: »

Do you not see why it is so hard for people to engage with the national side, when the players aren't Irish? We have no connection with the players - we don't watch them play live every week, they don't live here, some aren't Irish and probably wouldn't consider themselves as Irish - when we've nothing in common with them, how are we supposed to feel any affinity towards the team?

Sure what does it matter once a player is "a good Catholic boy"?

Guy:Incognito · 29-09-2008 5:16pm

Country winning major international tournament

stovelid wrote: »

You support the more successful alternative that hasn't won the league since you were you were 9? By this reckoning, you would have switched allegiance between Liverpool, Blackburn, Manchester United, Arsenal and Chelsea in your lifetime?

Just as well that particular discussion was about Clubs and not countries, because then your post wouldn't make sense .Oh wait........

I've had my German passport since birth, that hasn't changed, hence I could choose. I havnt switched to suit anything, they've always been a better team.

Dave! · 29-09-2008 5:18pm

CiaranC wrote: »

What? How is supporting your local club an arbitrary decision? Proximity is the major factor in choosing a club to support for real football fans from all over the world.

Did your Dad play for United for 15 years? No? Thought not. If he did you would have a tangible connection to the club. Typical barstooler nonsense.

So you're conceding that proximity is just one of many reasons why someone would choose to support a team? Good lad. Proving my point that you pick a team for whatever arbitrary reason you like, and then continue to support them because you enjoy it.

Guy:Incognito · 29-09-2008 5:24pm

Country winning major international tournament

Publin wrote: »

Nobody has said who you're "allowed" support. You can support whoever you want. I addressed this already. It would just be a bit weird for you to randomly pick Cork if you've no association with them, don't live there etc. It would make far more sense to support a nearby club, even if you've no association with them yet, simply from the point of view of becoming "part" of the club - attending games regularly, drinking in their bars, popping into the club shop, and so on.

.

Taking Dublin as a small version of Ireland, do I have to support the team thats geographically closer to my house? Or can I choose any Dublin team. What if I spend my summers in a mobile in Wexford, meaning a good chunk of the season would be spent with Wexford youths as my closest team, should I support them? What if my house is in Dun loaire and Bray is closer than any of the other teams, should I then support a Wicklow team?

Pure Cork · 29-09-2008 5:32pm

Country winning major international tournament

Stekelly wrote: »

Taking Dublin as a small version of Ireland, do I have to support the team thats geographically closer to my house? Or can I choose any Dublin team. What if I spend my summers in a mobile in Wexford, meaning a good chunk of the season would be spent with Wexford youths as my closest team, should I support them? What if my house is in Dun loaire and Bray is closer than any of the other teams, should I then support a Wicklow team?

You insist on using the same logic and argument all the time.

You're from Tallaght it seems. It would be logical to support Shams.

If I had a holiday home in Wexford (or had to move there), I'd go to see a few Youths matches when I was there, I'd mix with their fans and enjoy the banter. I'd still be a Cork City fan. Ditto for other locations.

Dave! · 29-09-2008 5:33pm

Stekelly wrote: »

Taking Dublin as a small version of Ireland, do I have to support the team thats geographically closer to my house? Or can I choose any Dublin team. What if I spend my summers in a mobile in Wexford, meaning a good chunk of the season would be spent with Wexford youths as my closest team, should I support them? What if my house is in Dun loaire and Bray is closer than any of the other teams, should I then support a Wicklow team?

Indeed.

Is it the closest as the crow flies? Or do ya maybe take public transport issues into consideration?

bohsman · 29-09-2008 5:34pm

Country winning major international tournament

Anyone that says country above club really should be following the el as the more fans the league has the more money pumped into it, the more money can be spent developing the game here meaning the national team might actually have a chance of being succesful.

Publin · 29-09-2008 5:37pm

Country winning major international tournament

Stekelly wrote: »

Taking Dublin as a small version of Ireland, do I have to support the team thats geographically closer to my house? Or can I choose any Dublin team. What if I spend my summers in a mobile in Wexford, meaning a good chunk of the season would be spent with Wexford youths as my closest team, should I support them? What if my house is in Dun loaire and Bray is closer than any of the other teams, should I then support a Wicklow team?

Seriously, did you read what I wrote? Support whoever the hell you want. I'm not saying support the team closest to your house/where you were born, where did I say that? You're obsessed with this notion of supporting the local team. You can take that to the extreme and say someone from Swords should support Swords Celtic, and not Bohs/Shels/other LoI team. I just said it would be weird to choose to support a club the other end of the country that you've no links with, when there's a club on your doorstep. It just makes it easier to get to games to support the team, buy merchandise, socialise with fellow fans of the club, meet those involved with the club, volunteer your time to the club - to become part of the club.

If you live in Dublin and decide you're going to try out the LoI and don't have a team yet, and for whatever reason, you decide to go to a Bray game first and like what you see - the football they play, the atmosphere at the game, the supporters around you and so on, then yes, support Bray, even if Bohs/Pats/shams/Shels/UCD are closer. I hope this makes it clear to you.

I wonder in how many other big footballing countries does it happen that the national league is ignored by the masses in favour of teams in a country with whom you share a colourful history and are probably your biggest rivals. Gotta love the Oirish.

CiaranC · 29-09-2008 5:44pm

Country winning major international tournament

Dave! wrote: »

So you're conceding that proximity is just one of many reasons why someone would choose to support a team? Good lad.

Im saying its THE major factor in choosing who you support, for football fans all over the world. Nice try on being a smartass.

The reason being that the club closest to you is most likely to represent, you, your family history, your area, your history, your culture, your nationality, your politics and your ethnicity. That and the fact that you can travel to see the games easily. Its YOUR club, by virtue of you and it sharing some or all these things

If you think you can just pick some random team to which you have no connection and support them by going there once or twice a year and watching TV, then you have no idea what being a football fan is all about. This is simple fact.

If you think, for example, someone who grows up in Dublin, with no ties to Birmingham whatsoever, supporting Aston Villa (!) is somehow akin to say, a Turkish lad from the Serenceby in Istanbul supporting Besiktas, then you fundamentally misunderstand what being a football fan is all about.

I know people dont agree with this, and think football is just another form of entertainment akin to Gladiators or WWF on TV. Thats fine, have at it, but dont pretend to be like the lad from Besiktas, because you are not.

You may proceed to call me, bitter, arrogant, ignorant and snobbish..................now.

Mr.Nice Guy · 29-09-2008 5:50pm

Both teams I follow are too sh[i]i[/i]te to ever be in that situation

CiaranC wrote: »

If you think you can just pick some random team to which you have no connection and support them by going there once or twice a year and watching TV, then you have no idea what being a football fan is all about. This is simple fact.

LOL 'simple fact'? Simple maybe, but certainly not a fact.

Is there a general rulebook on how to be a football fan? I must have missed it.

Honestly I have sympathy with those who want to see the local game given more of a helping hand but this kind of patronising, condescending attitude that I often hear from 'da real football fans' does you no favours.

Publin · 29-09-2008 5:55pm

Country winning major international tournament

bohsman wrote: »

Anyone that says country above club really should be following the el as the more fans the league has the more money pumped into it, the more money can be spent developing the game here meaning the national team might actually have a chance of being succesful.

Ah would you ever stop being so logical and come up with a warped, twisted argument that certain peope on this thread might understand. You might as well be talking to a brick wall, no one from the EPL side will respond to this comment, because there is little or no comeback to it. Anyone out there care to respond to what bohsman just wrote about why you should support the LoI if you support the national team? Any takers?

CiaranC · 29-09-2008 5:57pm

Country winning major international tournament

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

LOL 'simple fact'? Simple maybe, but certainly not a fact.

Is there a general rulebook on how to be a football fan? I must have missed it.

Hah, its called common sense. Travel to any city in England and ask an English lad why he supports his local team, he'll be happy to explain it. Then compare your experience with his.

Honestly I have sympathy with those who want to see the local game given more of a helping hand but this kind of patronising, condescending attitude that I often hear from 'da real football fans' does you no favours.

Honestly, I dont know what kind of favours you can do yourself trying to explain football culture to the likes of someone who asks whether he should support Wexford Youths because he went on holidays there when he was a kid. Such people are as entrenched as proper football fans, and wont be swayed, so you might as well have a laugh.

estebancambias · 29-09-2008 5:57pm

Both teams I follow are too sh[i]i[/i]te to ever be in that situation

Publin wrote: »

Ah would you ever stop being so logical and come up with a warped, twisted argument that certain peope on this thread might understand. You might as well be talking to a brick wall, no one from the EPL side will respond to this comment, because there is little or no comeback to it. Anyone out there care to respond to what bohsman just wrote about why you should support the LoI if you support the national team? Any takers?

Why are the EPL don't support Ireland brigade getting an easy ride?

SectionF · 29-09-2008 5:59pm

Country winning major international tournament

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I have sympathy with those who want to see the local game given more of a helping hand but this kind of patronising, condescending attitude that I often hear from 'da real football fans' does you no favours.

Line #47 from The EPLer's Self-Justification and Excuse Manual, vol. 13.
If you like (real) football, you'll go to watch it. A spot of condescension won't deter you.

bohsman · 29-09-2008 5:59pm

Country winning major international tournament

estebancambias wrote: »

Why are the EPL don't support Ireland brigade getting an easy ride?

Because they obviously have no interest in Irish football, national or international, nothing wrong with that.

Publin · 29-09-2008 6:00pm

Country winning major international tournament

estebancambias wrote: »

Why are the EPL don't support Ireland brigade getting an easy ride?

Because they don't support Ireland, so they wouldn't really care about pumping money into the national side to make it better - which is the argument above made by bohsman?!

As I'm sure you're aware as well, many of this outlook don't support Ireland because they don't believe in patriotism/national pride.

Dave! · 29-09-2008 6:00pm

CiaranC wrote: »

Im saying its THE major factor in choosing who you support, for football fans all over the world. Nice try on being a smartass.

The reason being that the club closest to you is most likely to represent, you, your family history, your area, your history, your culture, your nationality, your politics and your ethnicity. That and the fact that you can travel to see the games easily. Its YOUR club, by virtue of you and it sharing some or all these things

If you think you can just pick some random team to which you have no connection and support them by going there once or twice a year and watching TV, then you have no idea what being a football fan is all about. This is simple fact.

If you think, for example, someone who grows up in Dublin, with no ties to Birmingham whatsoever, supporting Aston Villa (!) is somehow akin to say, a Turkish lad from the Serenceby in Istanbul supporting Besiktas, then you fundamentally misunderstand what being a football fan is all about.

I know people dont agree with this, and think football is just another form of entertainment akin to Gladiators or WWF on TV. Thats fine, have at it, but dont pretend to be like the lad from Besiktas, because you are not.

You may proceed to call me, bitter, arrogant, ignorant and snobbish..................now.

No need to call you anything. It's clear that you believe you were left in a basket outside Glenmalure Park and so by virtue of that fact you are a Real Football Fan™ and everyone else is a poser/imposter. That appears to be a common perception among EL fans unfortunately. I say unfortunately, because there's alot of fans who support a local team and so are lucky enough to go to see them play every weekend, yet don't evangelise or criticise other people for their own choice of team. If more people were like this and there were less of the pettiness associated with EL (such as what is evident in this thread) then maybe it'd be more successful. But I'm sure you'd rather have your bubble of Real Football Fans and laugh at people outside of it so that you can pretend you're actually part of the team, lol.

Pure Cork · 29-09-2008 6:00pm

Country winning major international tournament

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Honestly I have sympathy with those who want to see the local game given more of a helping hand but this kind of patronising, condescending attitude that I often hear from 'da real football fans' does you no favours.

Just like I have sympathy with those who support the national team, but EPL fans calling me a traitor for not supporting the national team is doing them no favours.

CiaranC · 29-09-2008 6:07pm

Country winning major international tournament

Dave! wrote: »

If more people were like this and there were less of the pettiness associated with EL (such as what is evident in this thread) then maybe it'd be more successful. But I'm sure you'd rather have your bubble of Real Football Fans and laugh at people outside of it so that you can pretend you're actually part of the team, lol.

Maybe it would, but I seriously doubt it.

To be honest, the more time I spend listening to EPL/OleOlers, the more I think well **** the lot of them. If some undecideds want to come along and be part of it, hopefully they will be swayed by the passion of LOI fans.

Have to laugh at your notion of 'pretending to be part of the team'. Several fans on this thread are part of members clubs, volunteering for their clubs etc. and are more part of their clubs than any EPL 'fan' could even comprehend.

Pure Cork · 29-09-2008 6:08pm

Country winning major international tournament

Dave! wrote: »

No need to call you anything. It's clear that you believe you were left in a basket outside Glenmalure Park and so by virtue of that fact you are a Real Football Fan™ and everyone else is a poser/imposter. That appears to be a common perception among EL fans unfortunately. I say unfortunately, because there's alot of fans who support a local team and so are lucky enough to go to see them play every weekend, yet don't evangelise or criticise other people for their own choice of team. If more people were like this and there were less of the pettiness associated with EL (such as what is evident in this thread) then maybe it'd be more successful. But I'm sure you'd rather have your bubble of Real Football Fans and laugh at people outside of it so that you can pretend you're actually part of the team, lol.

I've often heard English football fans (from England

) say that football is about geography. I remember watching Soccer AM and there was an ex-West Ham player (legend?) who slated a guy from London for supporting Manchester United, and a guy (from London) who supported West Ham because Leyton Orient was his local team! It's not exclusive to LOI fans, but the some people would have you believe so.

Mr.Nice Guy · 29-09-2008 6:09pm

Both teams I follow are too sh[i]i[/i]te to ever be in that situation

CiaranC wrote: »

Hah, its called common sense. Travel to any city in England and ask an English lad why he supports his local team, he'll be happy to explain it. Then compare your experience with his.

What like a Man City fan maybe? Whose club is now owned by Arabs, managed by a Welshman, and has players from as far and wide as Brazil and Ireland?

If I ask him what he likes most about being a football fan is he going to tell me 'it gives me local pride?' Come on.

Pure Cork wrote:

Just like I have sympathy with those who support the national team, but EPL fans calling me a traitor for not supporting the national team is doing them no favours.

What I find fascinating though is a lot of Eircom League fans on this thread have said they refuse to support the national team because of its association with the FAI, yet these same people support their local sides - which fall under the FAI umbrella.

Why not refuse to support your local team then in protest at the FAI?

Club or country?

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