Permits for sound moderators

Sikamick

On silencers, an other rifle and silencer seized by Garda yesterday, a lot of rifle shooters are not aware that they need a permit to own and use a silencer. The responsibility should be put on the firearms dealers to make people aware that they need a permit.


Sikamick

rrpc

Sikamick wrote: »

On silencers, an other rifle and silencer seized by Garda yesterday, a lot of rifle shooters are not aware that they need a permit to own and use a silencer. The responsibility should be put on the firearms dealers to make people aware that they need a permit.

There's also the situation of people who had sound moderators in their possession before the law was changed. Many of these might not be aware that something they bought over the counter twenty years ago, now requires an authorisation.

jwshooter

sika its up to the user of a moderator to get the permit we all know lads that just will not bother . it would not be right for a RFD to have to inforce the permit as it would be his word againest the users..

Sikamick

jwshooter wrote: »

sika its up to the user of a moderator to get the permit we all know lads that just will not bother . it would not be right for a RFD to have to inforce the permit as it would be his word againest the users..

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jwshooter I did not say enforce, the firearms dealer makes a profit on the sale of a silencer, so he has a responsibly to advise people, especially to new people coming into the sport. Its not lollipops were are talking about.

We seem to not want to except responsibility in our sport and the firearms dealer makes his living from the sale of firearms so he/she does have a responsibility. There is a firearms dealer already that has lost his dealers license and is due to go to court over the sale of similar.

Sikamick

jwshooter

Sikamick wrote: »

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jwshooter I did not say enforce, the firearms dealer makes a profit on the sale of a silencer, so he has a responsibly to advise people, especially to new people coming into the sport. Its not lollipops were are talking about.

We seem to not want to except responsibility in our sport and the firearms dealer makes his living from the sale of firearms so he/she does have a responsibility. There is a firearms dealer already that has lost his dealers license and is due to go to court over the sale of similar.

Sikamick

If a RFD can sells a moderator to me and i get a permit for it thats fine .but if i dont, i am the only one that can be held accountable for that ,whos to say where the moderator came from as there is no indentifing marks or number on them no more than lollipops.if you buy or own a firearm its down to you know one else to learn the law and seasons relevant to the firearm and sport your into .too much passing the buck going on in this country .

Sikamick

jwshooter, Can a RFD sell you a firearm without a license (No).

Example: a newbie coming into the sport goes to his local firearms dealer to buy firearm, whats the first thing he is told?. You need a FAC to own one.

So how much more difficult is it for him to advise you that you need a permit for a silencer. If this saves innocent people getting into trouble with the Garda, whats the problem.

And obviously if the Garda have taken a case against a RFD for selling a silencer and parts to someone, they feel he has a responsibility of care.

I cant give you the details of this case here.


Sikamick

jwshooter

Sikamick wrote: »

jwshooter, Can a RFD sell you a firearm without a license (No).

Example: a newbie coming into the sport goes to his local firearms dealer to buy firearm, whats the first thing he is told?. You need a FAC to own one.

So how much more difficult is it for him to advise you that you need a permit for a silencer. If this saves innocent people getting into trouble with the Garda, whats the problem.

And obviously if the Garda have taken a case against a RFD for selling a silencer and parts to someone, they feel he has a responsibility of care.

I cant give you the details of this case here.


Sikamick

MODERATOR S for full bores ! you can not silence a bullet going over the speed of sound as far as i know .i would be interested to know of the RFD you say the garda have taken action against .i was only talking to my dealer friend about this the other day and he is not liable for any moderator he sells but he does inform people about the permit ,when the law if its a law was changed on the moderators the gardai should have put a note in with all renewals .its a bullsh1t permit anyway there is no ID numbers on the cans so they cant track em .i know where your coming from sika but again its passing the buck

Sikamick

jwshooter I don't know whether we should or can discuss this further here and I do think it should be discussed. Maybe it needs a new thread.

Sikamick

IRLConor

New thread for this stuff. Thanks for your patience.

Sikamick

jwshooter I have a permit since 1974 for possession and use of a sound Moderator for .22 rabbit shooting on a stud farm. I got it as the results of a friend of mine having his rifle taken off him by the Garda because he didn't know he needed one, I was not aware I needed one until that happened.

By the way his Super understood it was in error and gave him his rifle back with a permit for the Sound Mod.

Sikamick

shaft666

Over here (still stuck in UK :mad:) We can't buy a moderator without one first being permitted on our licence. To make it worse if we have one and want to change it for a different one we have to apply for a variation (£28) before we can buy another!
Paul

Sikamick

shaft666 wrote: »

Over here (still stuck in UK :mad:) We can't buy a moderator without one first being permitted on our licence. To make it worse if we have one and want to change it for a different one we have to apply for a variation (£28) before we can buy another!
Paul

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Paul would I be correct in saying that full bore Moderators have to go to the proff house for testing and are numbered when you get them back or does this only happen when you re-barrell.

Sikamick

thehair

Sikamick wrote: »

On silencers, an other rifle and silencer seized by Garda yesterday, a lot of rifle shooters are not aware that they need a permit to own and use a silencer. The responsibility should be put on the firearms dealers to make people aware that they need a permit.


Sikamick

hello Sikamick beford i got my .22 rifle i got good info about a silencers for
my .22 and what is the law on silencer NOW f-c-p i am to believe that
from july 2009 is you wount need a permit to have on my .22 calber rifle
so what do we do now steve

Sikamick

thehair wrote: »

hello Sikamick beford i got my .22 rifle i got good info about a silencers for
my .22 and what is the law on silencer NOW f-c-p i am to believe that
from july 2009 is you wount need a permit to have on my .22 calber rifle
so what do we do now steve

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July 2009 so I believe, but what should one do in the mean time? get a permit I'd say.

Sikamick

thehair

Sikamick wrote: »

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July 2009 so I believe, but what should one do in the mean time? get a permit I'd say.

Sikamick

i have a permit:) thank you sir

IRLConor

thehair wrote: »

hello Sikamick beford i got my .22 rifle i got good info about a silencers for
my .22 and what is the law on silencer NOW f-c-p i am to believe that
from july 2009 is you wount need a permit to have on my .22 calber rifle
so what do we do now steve

Pre-restricted list:

All moderators need a permit.

Post-restricted list:

All moderators need a permit.
Moderators for anything other than rimfire rifles are restricted.


You still need a permit for your .22, I'm afraid.

thehair

IRLConor wrote: »

Pre-restricted list:

All moderators need a permit.

Post-restricted list:

All moderators need a permit.
Moderators for anything other than rimfire rifles are restricted.


You still need a permit for your .22, I'm afraid.

i now have a permit for my cz .22:) thank you connor for the above steve

cavan shooter

Irl Connor is right on that one, on my first reading of the restricted ammendment thats what I thought then I relized that nothing has changed permit for mod 22lr, 17hmr, 22 wmr. 22 hornet upwards apply to Chief Super.:(

thehair

cavan shooter wrote: »

Irl Connor is right on that one, on my first reading of the restricted ammendment thats what I thought then I relized that nothing has changed permit for mod 22lr, 17hmr, 22 wmr. 22 hornet upwards apply to Chief Super.:(

it is a bit mad went you think about the (law) and moderators for firearms
it would drive you mad BUT that the law:(

shaft666

Sikamick wrote: »

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Paul would I be correct in saying that full bore Moderators have to go to the proff house for testing and are numbered when you get them back or does this only happen when you re-barrell.

Sikamick

Thats a real grey area here! There's nothing in the licensing laws to say they have to be proofed but as far as I'm aware any shop getting a rifle screw cut for you will always send the moderator off with the rifle to be proofed, they aren't numbered though (well all the ones I've seen haven't been).

Paul

thehair

shaft666 wrote: »

Thats a real grey area here! There's nothing in the licensing laws to say they have to be proofed but as far as I'm aware any shop getting a rifle screw cut for you will always send the moderator off with the rifle to be proofed, they aren't numbered though (well all the ones I've seen haven't been).

Paul

hi paul my CZ 452 LUX was all ready screw cut from new out of the box
steve;)

clivej

Applied for permission to use a mod on my 22lr. Talking to the FO later she said that as she read it I didn't need permission shoot away. :eek:
After getting avice from Sparks I went back to the FO.
She was then of the opinion that I would need permission after reading new notes sent down to her from head office. So I have put in for my mod permission again.
Just waiting now and waiting and waiting.................................

And still waiting on news of my .223 application 7 weeks now.

shaft666

thehair wrote: »

hi paul my CZ 452 LUX was all ready screw cut from new out of the box
steve;)

Most of the new rifles are now factory screw cut here too but still plenty around that aren't, particularly the deer calibres. my Anschutz & Howa were both factory cut.

Paul

cooperjeff9

Sikamick wrote: »

jwshooter I have a permit since 1974 for possession and use of a sound Moderator for .22 rabbit shooting on a stud farm. I got it as the results of a friend of mine having his rifle taken off him by the Garda because he didn't know he needed one, I was not aware I needed one until that happened.

By the way his Super understood it was in error and gave him his rifle back with a permit for the Sound Mod.

Sikamick

If you have a moderator permit since 1974, you jumped the gun a bit. The legislation only came in in the 1990 firearms act, I think. In the UK they must be proofed but do not have a serial number stamped on them although the calibre they are proofed for is stamped on them. Incidentally, you do not need a permit for a moderator, just an authorisation which is currently issued at no charge. The requirements for a moderator are published in the 1990 Act, anyone who already has a firearms cert meets most of the requirements as they are the same as the requirements for having a Firearms Cert. The only additional requirement is that you must have a "special need" for one.

riflehunter77

Lads is there any difference in the forms for rimfire or a centerfire moderator or does one form cover all. If so does anyone know what the forms are callled ? Am thinking about applying for one for my .223

BornToKill

jwshooter wrote: »

If a RFD can sells a moderator to me and i get a permit for it thats fine .but if i dont, i am the only one that can be held accountable for that

The Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990 introduced this amendment:

7. —(1) A person shall be guilty of an offence if he has in his possession or sells or transfers to another person a silencer unless the possession, sale or transfer is authorised in writing by the superintendent of the district in which the first-mentioned person resides.

You need an authorisation before you acquire a moderator - or silencer as it's termed here - so both the owner of the item and the seller would have committed an offence.

thehair

riflehunter77 wrote: »

Lads is there any difference in the forms for rimfire or a centerfire moderator or does one form cover all. If so does anyone know what the forms are callled ? Am thinking about applying for one for my .223

hello riflehunter77 i hope and meen I HOPE it will not be the way off some
super thinks I-E you can have this BUT you can NOT have that. why well
search on here about moderators for rinfire and centrefire ;)steve

Ned Muldhoon

Borntokill - you're partly correct. but

(7) This section does not apply in relation to a person specified in paragraph (b), (c) or (d) of subsection (3) of section 2 of the Firearms Act, 1925 , or paragraph (a) or (b) of subsection (4) (inserted by the Firearms Act, 1964 ) of that section.

- Firearms dealers are covered by the inclusion of this section from the 1925 act. Under current legislation there is no requirement on a firearms dealer to ask a buyer for a copy or even a look at the authorisation, but it is very common practice to inform any potential customer of the requirements under law. Most firearms dealers are very aware of this section.

jwshooter

BornToKill wrote: »

The Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990 introduced this amendment:

7. —(1) A person shall be guilty of an offence if he has in his possession or sells or transfers to another person a silencer unless the possession, sale or transfer is authorised in writing by the superintendent of the district in which the first-mentioned person resides.

You need an authorisation before you acquire a moderator - or silencer as it's termed here - so both the owner of the item and the seller would have committed an offence.

does not include a dealer, its person to person .

Sparks

And don't forget that purchasing something and taking possession of it are two seperate acts - only the latter is illegal without an authorisation (which is why money changes hands with the dealer before a licence is applied for).

Ned Muldhoon

Sparks wrote: »

And don't forget that purchasing something and taking possession of it are two seperate acts - only the latter is illegal without an authorisation (which is why money changes hands with the dealer before a licence is applied for).

Only the purchaser will have committed an offence (assuming the purchaser is not an RFD). The legal requirement is for the purchaser to obtain the authorisation.

Sparks

Except that the crime is not the purchase of the moderator Ned. My point was that I could purchase as many sound moderators (or firearms for that matter) as I could find money for, and not commit any crime - but if I take posession of any of them without a licence or authorisation, that is when the crime happens.

Ned Muldhoon

Ah! - see your point.
The only reason I posted here was to clear up the bit about the liability of the dealer in such a transaction.

Bog Man

And to further confuse things ..... What about all the air rifles that have a moderator built in as standard? Last time I looked most new pcp guns seemed to have a built in silencer. Should we be taking a hacksaw and doing modifications?

Sparks

I think that the permission is implicit if the moderator is inbuilt - it's assumed that the Superintendent should know what he's licencing. If it's an add-on though, the law would seem to be the same for air as for cartridge firearms.