Irish Army missing Styers??

Grizzly 45

Or complain about discrimination.Insofar that you are being forced to use equipment unsuited to your physical structure.
Under HSE laws:rolleyes: of all things.If there is a piece of equipment that is suited to left handed people[IE a leftie Steyr Aug]and it is not issued orconsiderd for issue.The Dept of Defence could find themselves with another bunch of claims. Supposing IWM in the confusion puts the Aug into his left shoulder and fires???
Point accepted that certain weapon systems only work from the right shoulder,but with optic sights and no "working parts "near ones face,unlike a bullpup rifle one can train to being right handed.Ditto for drill of arms.
OR you could volenteer to train on the GMPG totally and utterly.Although a weigty pig to carry,it is a straight stock weapon.So you wouldnt have that much problems with being a left hooker.Anyone advise on that one??

Poccington

I'm left eye dominant yet I can fire the Steyr quite well. It's called adapting.

Anybody that puts a Steyr into his left shoulder "in the confusion" and fires is an absolte lemon. I know lads who are left handed yet they've achieved Marksman scores on the Steyr. They learned how to use a right handed rifle competently, if someone can't do that then they're not gonna pass out so it won't be an issue.

As for training someone solely on a GPMG, not a good idea. It just lowers a soldiers skill level. I suppose they won't train on the SRAAW since it has to be fired from your right shoulder. I also suppose they won't be trained on the M203 either since it's attached to a right handed Steyr. Or.... They could just get used to handling the weapon the way it's supposed to be.

Poccington

Rew wrote: »

Why not? All DF units got a letter regarding this about 6 months ago, I would imagine its where the newspaper stories started.

Some clown sued the Army after injuing their eye while firing the FN left handed. You would want to be off your rocker to fire a Styer left handed and for the same reason the DF dont issue left handed rifles. If in the heat of the moment some picked up a leftie rifle could be nasty.

Oh no don't get me wrong, I know there was an instruction sent around. I was saying not to be believing the part of how each weapon had to be cocked and the breach checked. Also the part that Airsoft Steyr's when stripped are the exact same as the Steyr's sitting in our armouries.

It's bull****.

dahamster

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Or complain about discrimination.Insofar that you are being forced to use equipment unsuited to your physical structure.
Under HSE laws:rolleyes: of all things.If there is a piece of equipment that is suited to left handed people[IE a leftie Steyr Aug]and it is not issued orconsiderd for issue.The Dept of Defence could find themselves with another bunch of claims. QUOTE]

The DF are exempt from certain H&S regulations

iceage

Guys, I think we all agree that this is a load of boll*cks, yes?... I started the thread because I have a genuine belief that its not true..(the possible replacement of RS Steyr's with toy ones!) ludicrous.

Read my original post. Why your all getting exciteded over can a leftie put rounds down with a supposed right handed weapon is a bit beyond me. its all in the training yes. You all agree on that. I've never had the chance to have a go with the likes of the Steyr, in my day we did rather ok with the SLR, the equivilant of your FAL or "FN" except we had only Semi, you had full auto. Oh and by the way, I am left handed, not that it matters, I was fairly dead on right handed! when given the time of course.

minidazzler

iceage wrote: »

Guys, I think we all agree that this is a load of boll*cks, yes?... I started the thread because I have a genuine belief that its not true..(the possible replacement of RS Steyr's with toy ones!) ludicrous.

Read my original post. Why your all getting exciteded over can a leftie put rounds down with a supposed right handed weapon is a bit beyond me. its all in the training yes. You all agree on that. I've never had the chance to have a go with the likes of the Steyr, in my day we did rather ok with the SLR, the equivilant of your FAL or "FN" except we had only Semi, you had full auto. Oh and by the way, I am left handed, not that it matters, I was fairly dead on right handed! when given the time of course.

*cough*Matchstick*cough*

but thats beside the point, Lefties are generally OK with the steyr you just have to get used to it!!!

Airsoft steyrs do not strip down the same, it is entirely just how it looks and weights!!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Poccington wrote: »

I wouldn't be believing them too quickly.

Here we go again, you really do have something against the RDF. What is it? Honest...



I guess the boys in the armory just need to be extra vigilant. It can happen, and if it does, the DF will need to revise some areas.

Poccington

Zuri Early Test wrote: »

Here we go again, you really do have something against the RDF. What is it? Honest...



I guess the boys in the armory just need to be extra vigilant. It can happen, and if it does, the DF will need to revise some areas.

See Post #54

iceage

minidazzler wrote: »

*cough*Matchstick*cough*

but thats beside the point, Lefties are generally OK with the steyr you just have to get used to it!!!



Airsoft steyrs do not strip down the same, it is entirely just how it looks and weights!!

I never mentioned a form of combustion to ignite my rollie!!;)

Zuri Early Test wrote: »

Here we go again, you really do have something against the RDF. What is it? Honest.



I guess the boys in the armory just need to be extra vigilant. It can happen, and if it does, the DF will need to revise some areas.

You know the answer to this one..He is, and you ain't. And the rest of us understand.

Poccington wrote: »

See Post #54

As for you....:p the RDF got all the new kit first, is that true?;)

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Try be a little more percise to avoid that kinda thing. Anyways...

Poccington

iceage wrote: »

As for you....:p the RDF got all the new kit first, is that true?;)

Which new kit is this now?

Duffers

This thread is GASH!!!!!!!:pac:

Phototoxin

All your AUGS are belong to us

iceage

Agreed, before somebody has a major falling out.

iceage

Poccington wrote: »

Which new kit is this now?

I'm taking the p*ss mate, loads of magnums flying around the place, although I did still manage to see an NCO out for a stroll recently in combats and shoes!

please tell me thats you agree that thats just wrong?

Just reread some of my posts...I talk some sh*ite when I've had a beer or 5! Apologies lads.

arybvtcw0eolkf

iceage wrote: »

Just reread some of my posts...I talk some sh*ite when I've had a beer or 5! Apologies lads.

LOL, guilty as charged here too!.

We all do that.

I sometimes switch on boards.ie fully expecting to be banned for some drunken indescretion at least once a week!.

Its all fun.

Poccington

iceage wrote: »

I'm taking the p*ss mate, loads of magnums flying around the place, although I did still manage to see an NCO out for a stroll recently in combats and shoes!

please tell me thats you agree that thats just wrong?

Just reread some of my posts...I talk some sh*ite when I've had a beer or 5! Apologies lads.

It's very wrong, if he's walking around in shoes then he should get onto his CQ.

RDF lads aren't the only ones that have problems getting kit though.

steyr fan

Phototoxin wrote: »

All your AUGS are belong to us

Are you referring to Steyr AUG's? If so, they all belong to the Minister, and ultimately the tax payer.

If you are referring to the airsoft AUG's, well then it doesn't matter.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Poccington wrote: »

It's very wrong, if he's walking around in shoes then he should get onto his CQ.

RDF lads aren't the only ones that have problems getting kit though.

Does it matter that I sometimes wear my runners or flip-flops on duty?.

Yea, damn right. Report the fecker, manky ba$tard :P

minidazzler

Mairt wrote: »

Does it matter that I sometimes wear my runners or flip-flops on duty?.

Yea, damn right. Report the fecker, manky ba$tard :P

In fairness now Mairt, you are in nearly 20 years, you are not going to be given out to about pretty much anything, now the so called "Red-arses" They get ****e about everything, one of the reasons I am delighted I am not PDF!!!

concussion

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Or complain about discrimination.Insofar that you are being forced to use equipment unsuited to your physical structure.
Under HSE laws:rolleyes: of all things.If there is a piece of equipment that is suited to left handed people[IE a leftie Steyr Aug]and it is not issued orconsiderd for issue.The Dept of Defence could find themselves with another bunch of claims.

Just because there is provision for a left-handed conversion does not mean there's a H&S issue.
The first thing that would be done would be a risk assessment - how likely is there going to be an incident and how dangerous would this incident be?

If the risk is acceptable, crack on. If there is a higher risk you have to consider reducing the risk.
Risk reduction: Train everyone to fire from the right shoulder. No risk of brass to the face from your own ejection slot. No need for conversion kits. Problem solved.

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Supposing IWM in the confusion puts the Aug into his left shoulder and fires?????

After being trained to fire from the right shoulder it is completely alien to put it to the left. I can't foresee people panicing and doing something so awkward.

It wasn't me!

concussion wrote: »

After being trained to fire from the right shoulder it is completely alien to put it to the left. I can't foresee people panicing and doing something so awkward.

Assuming the person hasn't naturally shot left-handed from childhood. See, I haev absolutely no doubt that I can train myself to use the Steyr right handed, and make a very good show of it too on the range. What I do see being problematic is when I'm under duress and have to put lead downrange under fire or whatever, that rifle is going to come to the left shoulder without even thinking about it. And therein lies the problem. When the solution is so obvious, so readily available and easily done, to not do it is stupid and negligent as far as I'm concerned.

Morpheus

its not negligent,

it is uniform, like everything else in the military!!!

you train to do it that way over and over and over,

you sound like zoolander, the ambi turner "I cant turn left"

also, you have not been trained to return fire while under duress or under fire yet. There are drills to be carried out over and over in training until second nature that are the ONLY way to react under fire.

You will have your steyr at hand and will go through these battle drills that were beaten into you when you were training.

holding the steyr wont be like holding any other rifle either so you will hold it the way you learned at the beginning.

you will load mags with your left, you will hold the pistol grip with your right, the barrel grip with your left etc...

What i am saying is that there are military rifle drills beaten into your head that, at the stage where you actually have to "put lead down range" as you put it, will be instinctual and the AUG is an entirely different beast than the other rifles youve fired.

You think your the first lefty to join up whos fired other guns left handedly all their lives?

Im sure there're some in the army, but I dont see many Captain Jack Sparrows walking around in DPMs so they mustve learned to be right handed too!

punchdrunk

surely it'd be hard to fire from the lefthand if the steyr's strap is on with the strap across your chest,slung over your left shoulder?
it seems to the untrained civvy that most troops rarely use there rifle without the sling making this a non-issue?

Grizzly 45

The DF are exempt from certain H&S regulations

[/QUOTE]

Hmmm.I WONT mention a tragic accident this year,involving a lorry,army personel and the M50 then??????

concussion

From the 2004 Annual Report

During 2004, a board of military health and safety experts conducted a study of hazards in each barracks with a view to further improving standards of health and safety across the organisation. In addition, the risk advisory section of the State Claims Agency carried out reviews of various military workshops in accordance with its statutory duty to provide risk advice to the Defence Forces. The advisory section of the State Claims Agency also carried out a risk review of occupational health & safety management in the Defence Forces in 2004. The executive summary of this report states:
“The Defence Forces are exemplary in the professional approach that they have taken to managing occupational health and safety risk particularly in recent years.”

From the 2006 Annual Report

During 2006, external auditors from the State Claims Agency carried out a comprehensive audit of the Defence Forces Health and Safety Management systems. This audit examined systems in Defence Forces HQ, in each Formation and in 14 different Units selected by the auditors. All areas audited met with OHSAS 18001 standards. The Defence Forces is the first State organisation to have its Safety Management System validated by the State Claims Agency.

It wasn't me! wrote: »

What I do see being problematic is when I'm under duress and have to put lead downrange under fire or whatever, that rifle is going to come to the left shoulder without even thinking about it.

The DF is exempt from H&S regulations during periods of armed conflict. So if you do have to return fire, and you do bring it up to the left shoulder, and you do get your own brass in the face you won't be able to whine about not having a left ejecting rifle.

Poccington

minidazzler wrote: »

In fairness now Mairt, you are in nearly 20 years, you are not going to be given out to about pretty much anything, now the so called "Red-arses" They get ****e about everything, one of the reasons I am delighted I am not PDF!!!

No they don't.

By the way, I should know since I am one :P

It wasn't me!

concussion wrote: »

So if you do have to return fire, and you do bring it up to the left shoulder, and you do get your own brass in the face you won't be able to whine about not having a left ejecting rifle.

My point was that there's a really easy way to avoid the whole situation, and it makes no sense not to do it.

Boston

It wasn't me! wrote: »

My point was that there's a really easy way to avoid the whole situation, and it makes no sense not to do it.

You have no valid point what so ever. It is far more likely that under duress another solider will fire your rifle resulting in injury. You gloss over this fact, but its clearly the reasons (and a damn good one) why they use those left handed kits.

arybvtcw0eolkf

This is a really stupid thread.

For the DF to safely bring in left handed Styers the DF would also have to completely change arms drill for those people too.

From the very first time a soldier handles a styer EVERYTHING is done as a right handed rifleman.

Its really that simple, otherwise the left handed soldier would have to learn to handle the weapon as a right handed user on the range, then swap over to a left hander users position for arms drill.

In trying to make it simplier than that would totally confuse an already ridiculous thread.

iceage

I Agree, maybe a Mod might close this one. Its been truly beaten to death.















we'll find something else to moan about!:)

Grizzly 45

The DF is exempt from H&S regulations during periods of armed conflict. So if you do have to return fire, and you do bring it up to the left shoulder, and you do get your own brass in the face you won't be able to whine about not having a left ejecting rifle.

[/QUOTE]

Ahem..hate to say this ,but when was the Irish Army in a period of "armed conflict"???? We in Ireland havent been in any ASFIK,unless peace enforcement is now classified as such???So therefore we are on peace conditions,then H&S would apply.If H&S didnt count for much why are you now issued with ear defenders for range practise??
Look IWM isnt saying the army have to adapt to him,all he is saying that it should make sense for him to be issued a left hand rifle for shooting.Is it that hard to issue such when he is not on parade or practising drill of arms?

neilled

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what do the other steyr/bullpup equipped nations do? Aussies, kiwis, austrians etc. Or even the french as the famas has the provision for lefthanded firing.

Hagar

This thread has indeed run it's course.

Please feel free to start up a thread about left handers, it's an interesting topic. I would be particularly interested to hear do we cater for left handed sniper class marksmen?


Thread closed, NOTW used in the cat litter tray.