Daughter being bullied - please help

LegacyUser

HI, Thanks to all those that posted with advice, about the after hours clubs, we've tried a few of these. Shes stayed the duration (10 weeks ) with the swimming/drama/art
I might try more with music/ martial arts and girl guides, they sound good.
Just to reply to a few comments, to elle, I have reported it to the principal because it was not only ostracization but in fact they were making comments about her. It's gotten to a point where she's the 'uncool person' so that even though individual people in her class might like her, its deemed 'uncool' to talk to her.
I know this because a girl that I'd invited many times to our house presented her with a present (which was given in secret to her in the toilets, and a 'do not tell anyone' label attached!) and only because her mum felt bad because her daughter had been invited to our house so many times and when she tried to invite our daughter she was told 'no I cant invite her...' Thanks to cavangal, rentdayblues, dixiefly, karen* and the rest for all your informative comments. I hope to build her self esteem, and BTW I tell her I love her every day.

Karen_*

I was wondering about the other mothers Sadmum because my son doesn't like a boy in school and yet he's always invited to his party so I make sure the boy is always invited to my sons. I'm glad one of them had a bit of decency!

jim o doom

jim o doom wrote: »

Only thing I can suggest is find a good martial arts instructor and let her do classes; not to defend herself, but to build up some self confidence - I'm in a class & a girl joined us a while back, amazingly quiet young school age girl, she has gone up a few belts and has started developing self confidence about herself which is great, so when you ask her a question now, your more likely to get an answer and a smile instead of a scared squeak! Possibly not a good suggestion, but it's all I can think of!

I think this is a brilliant idea, I was very very shy and bullied at school, I joined a Kenpo club (outside of my local area) and I could not be a more confident person than I am now.

Karen_*

I don't know if this is any help to you Sadmum but there used to be a boy in my sons school who no-one spoke to. The poor fella used to walk around the yard picking up stone and examining them just to look as if he was doing something. It was uncool to play with him. And there were quite a few comments made to him too. (quite how anyone can say this isn't bullying I don't know'. He used to go home and sob to his mum and as you can imagine she was absolutely up the wall. She gave up work and everything.

It went on for a couple of years and then he got a new teacher. And the teacher called everyone in the class aside one by one. And she talked at length about what was happening to this boy and asking the kids to put themselves into his position and how would they feel? SWhe never accused any of them of anything but appealed to their better nature. And sure enough most of the kids were only acting out of fear anyway.

Things really did change for him after that. It worked. Appealing to their better nature and tugging the heartstrings rather than them getting into trouble. Can you suggest something like that to the school? Maybe not exactly like that but a version of it?

RoosterIllusion

Sadmum wrote: »

I'm hoping some of you out here can understand and help me please. My daughter is 11 and is a good child, very polite, quiet, (too quiet i think), and is being bullied at school. she's in 6th class. The bullying is not overt, rather its very much about being ostracized from the group.
Im at a loss of what to do as i was very bullied myself at school so the whole stand up for yourself talk is just that, a talk.I neither believe it or understand it.By the way I've invited so many of the class to parties, sleepovers, playdates etc. over the last8 yrs, I'm worn out. She's never been invited to theirs tho and i'm starting to get a little bit pissed off. My husband, her dad is just like me,a little bit shy.By the way I'd just like to say that our younger daughter is party a minute babe. Have we passed on our bad traits to our older daughter?

I was bullied quite severely in school. You can't force kids to be friends with your daughter though, even if that's what you want.

You just have to put her in more social situations where she can have a better chance of meeting people who like her. Being in a class of eleven year olds is hard enough on a child and feeling left out is a big low point of school in general.

S.L.F

Hi sadmum my niece was being bullied for months on end her parents finally moved her out of the school.

She couldn't be happier now.

That particular bully is still in the school and is still causing trouble.

As to your daughter if it was me I'd move her out of the school in a heart-beat.


To all of you who keep thinking that the OP's daughter needs confidence you are forgetting that bullies tend to target confident people not weak people.

MagicMarker

S.L.F wrote: »

Hi sadmum my niece was being bullied for months on end her parents finally moved her out of the school.

She couldn't be happier now.

That particular bully is still in the school and is still causing trouble.

As to your daughter if it was me I'd move her out of the school in a heart-beat.


To all of you who keep thinking that the OP's daughter needs confidence you are forgetting that bullies tend to target confident people not weak people.

Couldn't disagree more.

S.L.F

I found 3 interesting sites, the first 1 helped me to understand what was going on when I was being bullied a couple of years ago

http://thrulookinglass-backwhen.blogspot.com/2007/02/bullyed-no-more_4284.html

The second one is what this stupid govt of ours should introduce in schools to save lives.

http://www.educationworld.com/a_issues/issues/issues103.shtml

The third one is to help parents deal with their own kids.

http://www.bullyfreekids.com/

I hope these help.

SLF

scary_tractors

Zillah wrote: »

If this is what people are calling bullying these days then things have changed in the last decade. People, even children, have a right to choose their friends. Its not fair to call it bullying if they don't want her there. You can't force them to be her friend.

Try find some other avenues, sports/music/clubs whatever, stuff outside of the school where she can meet some other people. This will help her confidence too.

Plus, its not that big a deal. Next year she'll be going to secondary school and meeting a whole load of new people. Help her build up her confidence more and she'll make new friends.

The kids at school who don't play her don't owe you anything, I think its ridiculous to call it bullying.

No, this comment is ridiculous. The most common form of bullying is psychological - for adults and kids. Girls are particularly vulnerable to being ostracised because they pick up all the subtleties that boys might not get.

This happened to me in school.

Obviously these girls are not very well brought up and their parents are ****s, because there is no way my mother would have allowed me to leave someone out of a party, etc, when I'd been invited to theirs.

Sometimes the best thing to do is have a chat with another parent or the teacher. They might get it or they might not but it's your duty to try.

Talking to the teacher is particularly relevant because any teacher who's taught that age group for long is going to know how this works. Girls of that age are often complete bitches and hunt in packs.

If this isn't productive then I suggest sending her to a drama class or something where she can meet kids from another school and befriend them. It would also help with her confidence. Possibly a different secondary school to the majority would be a good step but that would have to be a joint decision.

S.L.F

MagicMarker wrote: »

Couldn't disagree more.

Obliviously you've never been bullied if you had...........you'd know.

dixiefly

Karen_* wrote: »

I don't know if this is any help to you Sadmum but there used to be a boy in my sons school who no-one spoke to. The poor fella used to walk around the yard picking up stone and examining them just to look as if he was doing something. It was uncool to play with him. And there were quite a few comments made to him too. (quite how anyone can say this isn't bullying I don't know'. He used to go home and sob to his mum and as you can imagine she was absolutely up the wall. She gave up work and everything.

It went on for a couple of years and then he got a new teacher. And the teacher called everyone in the class aside one by one. And she talked at length about what was happening to this boy and asking the kids to put themselves into his position and how would they feel? SWhe never accused any of them of anything but appealed to their better nature. And sure enough most of the kids were only acting out of fear anyway.

Things really did change for him after that. It worked. Appealing to their better nature and tugging the heartstrings rather than them getting into trouble. Can you suggest something like that to the school? Maybe not exactly like that but a version of it?

I think that this is a very interesting post. Can you and your husband arrange for the two of you to meet her teacher AND he principal. You could even bring along a sister/ sister in law for support. Plan what you are going to say and see if they can tactfully deal with this. There are ways and means beyond what is mentioned above to get your daughter drawn into the class. From the description above where there is pressure on other kids to ostracize your daughter then it is safe to assume that the bullying is orchestrated by one or more children.
The teacher should be able to identify some children that would be suitable to get into group activities with your daughter. It may be even necessary to speak to some of the parents of those orchestrating and also parents of other kids. I would say that the teacher/ principal/ previous teachers know who the ringleaders are.

RoosterIllusion wrote: »

I was bullied quite severely in school. You can't force kids to be friends with your daughter though, even if that's what you want.

You just have to put her in more social situations where she can have a better chance of meeting people who like her. Being in a class of eleven year olds is hard enough on a child and feeling left out is a big low point of school in general.

While I agree with the sentiments that you cannot force children to be friends and to increase social interactions I would also say that the exclusion here definitely seems orchestrated and therefore the other children are being bullied/ forced into ignoring Sadmum's child.

dixiefly

Another thought, have you thought about writing a letter to the board of management of the school? It will be treated in confidence and that will put pressure on the principal to do something about it.

the_syco

S.L.F wrote: »

To all of you who keep thinking that the OP's daughter needs confidence you are forgetting that bullies tend to target confident people not weak people.

Sorry, but I disagree. They pick someone they don't like the look of, and that's it. Game over for the victim.

Karen_*'s idea sounds cool. Applying pressure on the school does f**k all, except the pressure gets fed down the vines to the teacher.

From when I was in primary & secondary, the protected children are only protected under protection. Once in the playground, or outside the school gates, the protected becomes the target.

S.L.F

the_syco wrote: »

Game over for the victim.

You should not be posting this type of stuff...

Wibbs

S.L.F wrote: »

You should not be posting this type of stuff...

Duly noted, but from my point of view anyway it comes across turn of phrase, nothing more. Maybe PM a mod or bring it to feedback if you take further issue.

Marksie

Actually: S.L.F comments on bullies picking on strong people is correct. I was surprised myself until i was talking to a lifecoach about it.

S.L.F

Wibbs wrote: »

Duly noted, but from my point of view anyway it comes across turn of phrase, nothing more. Maybe PM a mod or bring it to feedback if you take further issue.

Sorry Wibbs, I really hate it when people give the impression (intentionally or not) that the targets of bullies, "protected children", are weak which they are not.

It is something the OP and everybody who is reading these posts should understand.

All the posts about children trying to become more confident and getting more friends just makes them more of a target to bullies.

Marksie wrote: »

Actually: S.L.F comments on bullies picking on strong people is correct. I was surprised myself until i was talking to a lifecoach about it.

I was surprised myself when I found it out for myself.

I'm a very hard target now.

Nevyn

It depends on what you mean by 'strong' those that are strong willing and dont fall in line with the status quo and with the socail pack mentality and speak thier mind and aren't easily intimidated can be bullied a due to the fact they rock the boat when the popular kids
want thier way.

Cmol

OP - I can totally understand what your daughter is going though, I was badly bullied for my final two years of primary school, when I was 11 & 12, the same sort of thing - name calling, the other kids spreading rumors about me, screaming abuse at me down the street, having the chair pulled out from under me as I was sitting down, refusing to talk to me at lunch times... I would go home in floods of tears to mum and dad - they literally tried everything they could, talking to the parents, talking to the school, nothing helped.... I'm still in two minds about whether that is the right thing to do - it can end up with the child being further picked on for being a 'tattle - tail'. I think it all depends on how the schools go about dealing with it, but I know now at home most of the schools have anti-bullying policies in place (a little late in my case )

As long as your daughter has a strong support system in yourself, your husband and your other daughter she will get through this, and like others have said - activities out of school to help build her confidence and make friends outside of the clique that is school - once I hit high school and had a clean slate for myself I totally came out of my shell and became a new person

Last I heard of the two worst offenders in my case - one of them was kicked out of highschool for drug use and the other was working fulltime in a budget department store 10 years on and I wouldnt give those people two seconds of my time.

Its an absolutely horrible thing to have to go through, but there is always a light at the end of the tunnel, even if its not always easy to see - my thoughts are with your family x

MJOR

The poor little thing... thta's lousy. Preteens can be horrid. Get her involved with something outside of school. Drama or Karate can be good but it should be something she chooses.

Encourage her to talk to you about it too so she's not bottling it up...

Daithi McGee

Sadmum wrote: »

HI, Thanks to all those that posted with advice, about the after hours clubs, we've tried a few of these. Shes stayed the duration (10 weeks ) with the swimming/drama/art
I might try more with music/ martial arts and girl guides, they sound good.
Just to reply to a few comments, to elle, I have reported it to the principal because it was not only ostracization but in fact they were making comments about her. It's gotten to a point where she's the 'uncool person' so that even though individual people in her class might like her, its deemed 'uncool' to talk to her.
I know this because a girl that I'd invited many times to our house presented her with a present (which was given in secret to her in the toilets, and a 'do not tell anyone' label attached!) and only because her mum felt bad because her daughter had been invited to our house so many times and when she tried to invite our daughter she was told 'no I cant invite her...' Thanks to cavangal, rentdayblues, dixiefly, karen* and the rest for all your informative comments. I hope to build her self esteem, and BTW I tell her I love her every day.

Having read the thread I don't understand why you say she is being bullied bar being uncool? What is uncool about her, to the others? Does she wear glasses or some thing?

Kids are not adults and have their own ways of going about things. Why have the others said she is uncool? Perhaps that uncool reason needs to be looked at or dismissed?

Cmol

Daithi McGee wrote: »

Having read the thread I don't understand why you say she is being bullied bar being uncool? What is uncool about her, to the others? Does she wear glasses or some thing?

Kids are not adults and have their own ways of going about things. Why have the others said she is uncool? Perhaps that uncool reason needs to be looked at or dismissed?

Kids dont neccesarily need a reason to bully someone

S.L.F

Thaedydal wrote: »

It depends on what you mean by 'strong' those that are strong willing and dont fall in line with the status quo and with the socail pack mentality and speak thier mind and aren't easily intimidated can be bullied a due to the fact they rock the boat when the popular kids
want thier way.

What I mean by strong is in this web-page

http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/bully.htm#Why

3) Personal qualities that bullies find irresistible
Targets of bullying usually have these qualities:

• popularity (this stimulates jealousy in the less-than-popular bully)
• competence (this stimulates envy in the less-than-competent bully)
• intelligence and intellect
• honesty and integrity (which bullies despise)
• you're trustworthy, trusting, conscientious, loyal and dependable
• a well-developed integrity which you're unwilling to compromise
• you're always willing to go that extra mile and expect others to do the same
• successful, tenacious, determined, courageous, having fortitude
• a sense of humour, including displays of quick-wittedness
• imaginative, creative, innovative
• idealistic, optimistic, always working for improvement and betterment of self, family, the employer, and the world
• ability to master new skills
• ability to think long term and to see the bigger picture
• sensitivity (this is a constellation of values to be cherished including empathy, concern for others, respect, tolerance etc)
• slow to anger
• helpful, always willing to share knowledge and experience
• giving and selfless
• difficulty saying no
• diligent, industrious
• tolerant
• strong sense of honour
• irrepressible, wanting to tackle and correct injustice wherever you see it
• an inability to value oneself whilst attributing greater importance and validity to other people's opinions of oneself (eg through tests, exams, appraisals, manager's feedback, etc)
• low propensity to violence (ie you prefer to resolve conflict through dialogue rather than through violence or legal action)
• a strong forgiving streak (which the bully exploits and manipulates to dissuade you from taking grievance and legal action)
• a desire to always think well of others
• being incorruptible, having high moral standards which you are unwilling to compromise
• being unwilling to lower standards
• a strong well-defined set of values which you are unwilling to compromise or abandon
• high expectations of those in authority and a dislike of incompetent people in positions of power who abuse power
• a tendency to self-deprecation, indecisiveness, deference and approval seeking
• low assertiveness
• a need to feel valued
• quick to apologise when accused, even if not guilty (this is a useful technique for defusing an aggressive customer or potential road rage incident)
• perfectionism
• higher-than-average levels of dependency, naivety and guilt
• a strong sense of fair play and a desire to always be reasonable
• high coping skills under stress, especially when the injury to health becomes apparent
• a tendency to internalise anger rather than express it

RugbyFanatic

S.L.F wrote: »

What I mean by strong is in this web-page

http://www.bullyonline.org/workbully/bully.htm#Why

3) Personal qualities that bullies find irresistible
Targets of bullying usually have these qualities:

• popularity (this stimulates jealousy in the less-than-popular bully)
• competence (this stimulates envy in the less-than-competent bully)
• intelligence and intellect
• honesty and integrity (which bullies despise)
• you're trustworthy, trusting, conscientious, loyal and dependable
• a well-developed integrity which you're unwilling to compromise
• you're always willing to go that extra mile and expect others to do the same
• successful, tenacious, determined, courageous, having fortitude
• a sense of humour, including displays of quick-wittedness
• imaginative, creative, innovative
• idealistic, optimistic, always working for improvement and betterment of self, family, the employer, and the world
• ability to master new skills
• ability to think long term and to see the bigger picture
• sensitivity (this is a constellation of values to be cherished including empathy, concern for others, respect, tolerance etc)
• slow to anger
• helpful, always willing to share knowledge and experience
• giving and selfless
• difficulty saying no
• diligent, industrious
• tolerant
• strong sense of honour
• irrepressible, wanting to tackle and correct injustice wherever you see it
• an inability to value oneself whilst attributing greater importance and validity to other people's opinions of oneself (eg through tests, exams, appraisals, manager's feedback, etc)
• low propensity to violence (ie you prefer to resolve conflict through dialogue rather than through violence or legal action)
• a strong forgiving streak (which the bully exploits and manipulates to dissuade you from taking grievance and legal action)
• a desire to always think well of others
• being incorruptible, having high moral standards which you are unwilling to compromise
• being unwilling to lower standards
• a strong well-defined set of values which you are unwilling to compromise or abandon
• high expectations of those in authority and a dislike of incompetent people in positions of power who abuse power
• a tendency to self-deprecation, indecisiveness, deference and approval seeking
• low assertiveness
• a need to feel valued
• quick to apologise when accused, even if not guilty (this is a useful technique for defusing an aggressive customer or potential road rage incident)
• perfectionism
• higher-than-average levels of dependency, naivety and guilt
• a strong sense of fair play and a desire to always be reasonable
• high coping skills under stress, especially when the injury to health becomes apparent
• a tendency to internalise anger rather than express it

Going to have to completely disagree with all of that. I reckon that list was made for those being bullied to feel better about themselves.

The people who tend to get bullied are those who are too weak to stand up for themselves, socially inept or different from the pack (i.e odd)

Bullies don't go after strong people who will stand up for themselves that is common fact.

To let yourself get bullied IMO is shameful, stand up and respect yourself. Simple as that.

S.L.F

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

Going to have to completely disagree with all of that. I reckon that list was made for those being bullied to feel better about themselves.

The people who tend to get bullied are those who are too weak to stand up for themselves, socially inept or different from the pack (i.e odd)

Bullies don't go after strong people who will stand up for themselves that is common fact.

To let yourself get bullied IMO is shameful, stand up and respect yourself. Simple as that.

Tell that to the 11 year old schoolgirl...

Zillah

S.L.F wrote: »

Tell that to the 11 year old schoolgirl...

I believe the list you have above is pure nonsense but I do agree that telling an 11 year old schoolgirl to stand up for herself is a little ridiculous.

Daithi McGee

Cmol wrote: »

Kids dont neccesarily need a reason to bully someone

Agreed, I did say Kids are not adults and have their own ways of going about things.

I was wondering was there an actual reason the child was being excluded? To be seen as uncool? Like wearing glasses for an example. In case you didnt read that right, as you did before, I am not saying the child was excluded for wearing glasses or condoning it, I am just asking the question

Victor

RugbyFanatic wrote: »

To let yourself get bullied IMO is shameful, stand up and respect yourself. Simple as that.

Banned.*

As people have mentioned out, your point is off. Its akin to telling paraplegics to get their act together and walk up the stairs.


* not really.

S.L.F

Zillah wrote: »

you're teaching her to think like a victim.

When and if you ever have kids and they get bullied I hope you don't blame them for it.

Zillah wrote: »

I believe the list you have above is pure nonsense

Which part of the list is nonsense? All of it or just bits

Perhaps you would like to give your opinion on why it is some people get bullied and others don't.

challengemaster

Male opinion here..Having been bullied (for freckin' ages over the years) - It's never a nice situation to be in. Bullies do pick on "strong" people. I think strong is the wrong word there, more like people who are actually benificial to society in some form. Looking at those bullies now, confirms that as they're spending each day of their life now on the dole and in pubs.

What worked for me (not that I reccomend this) - was smashing the bullies head through a window. I literally just snapped one day and bam.. the feeling was great like, to make a bully cry. Never grinned as much. Got a kinda psycho rep after that incident and that kinda put an end to crap.

These days, there's just muppets who'd make an odd remark about being ginger or whatever - but after years of that shoite it pretty much brushes off. Obviously knowing that you're a better person and they're doing it because they feel inferior - tends to work against them.

As its probably been said, these people won't even be remembered in 10 years time like. People scatter for college, you make new friends, the way things go..etc etc. Sports club of something she likes and she'll make decent friends through that.



Also if my post is pure inane crap completly incoherent - I apologise. I got 3 hours sleep and was up at 6am or so..