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Now I've heard it all!
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lightening wrote: »I still think your spoofing. I don't think you could outpace two terriers no matter how far away from your house you were. If they wanted to get at you they would have. Dashing towards you while barking? Doesn't sound like Staffie behavior to me.
Anyway, carry on...
What the hell is so hard to believe??? I told you before (scroll up), they chased me BACK to my house, BACK. I saw them ease off once they realised I was leaving. If I hadn't chosen to turn around, **** knows what would have happened to me.
Yes, they were barking! More of a "RAH RAH" than a woof woof.0 -
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Cost/benefit. If I found out my neighbour allowed their small child to play with a Staffordshire Bull Terrer, a Pitbull Terrier or a German Shepherd I WOULD REPORT THEM TO SOCIAL SERVICES.
And then the neighrbour could sue your for maliciously reporting them to SS for child neglect?abuse or whatever yarn you would spin. The child in the picture on page 3 is my son. You are welcome to PM me and I give you my name and address
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I have lived, worked, rescued, showed and judged (all bar bred) APBT for over 25 years. So permit me to be able to KNOW the breed whic you obviously do not.
A couple of years back I got badly mauled by the rescue dog which I took into my sanctuary. It netted me lots of stitches and a few days stay in the hospital. It never made the news as it was the adult version of the Andrex pup who attacked me. A less dog savvy person would have been dead.
I have never been attacked by a bull breed and I often take in Bull Breeds from pounds and know nothing about their past. Yet, these dogs have not shown the slightest aggression towards me, the vets, my volunteers... NOT ONCE!
A badly injured Staffie was found by me in an housing estate. The wound was days old and infected.
She wagged her tail when the vet injected her with antibiotics.
She also wagged her tail when she woke up from the operation to have the skin stitched back on to her jaw.
She must have been in tremendous pain, yet she never once even growled.
Today she lives happily in North Wales. I made the decision to rehome her to the UK conciously as I didn't want her to be damned to a life time of muzzle as per Restricted Breeds Act.
Or perhaps you would like to read Glors Story?
http://www.egar.org/memory.htm
Or perhaps Raymonds story?
http://www.thepeoplespuppy.com
Or perhaps you would like to talk to the Nationwide crew from RTE? They spent hours filming here and were amazed how placid and friendly my rescues are.
Or perhaps you would like to come and visit and meet them in person?
be my guest!0 -
lightening wrote: »Ah, fair enough... if you say it happened I am sure it did.
More ridicule, more BS. What point are you trying to make now?? I refuted your claim about not being able to out run them. I go to all the trouble to draw you a f**king DIAGRAM, and this is your reponse. You don't like it, because it demostrates that dog need leashes. It seems that sometimes you are in the mood for questioning the incident (more of that please) and other times (mostly) you just want to accuse me of lying.
Nice to see the lurkers waiting in the wings with their 'thanks'.
Let me ask you this: If, indeed, my nephews had arrived on time, had been playing/wandering out there, gotten savaged by one or both of these dogs, would you STILL be accusing me of MAKING IT UP?
The fact that it COULD have been them outside, and not me, makes me f**king FURIOUS with whoever allowed those dogs to stand around unleased and unmuzzled. It also makes me particularly angry to be called a liar. But in your hour of childishness, you probably enjoy that.
No no, how it usually works is: YOU quote something I said that you disagree with, and post your reply. Why should I have to repost everything I said? What's the point?Ok, tell you what, post back with points you want addressed, using non emotive language and without making any assumtions of how people are going to answer (for instance saying people don't care about children) and I (and I'm sure others) will do our best to answer without saying anything about ignorance or lack of experience etc. So instead of a row, a nice informative conversation.
But if that doesn't work for you, lets go with two question:
Do you think big dogs, especially powerful breeds like rottweilers etc., should be muzzled in public?
Do you acknowledge ANY danger from big dogs at all?0 -
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Look at you getting agressive with me.OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »
No no, how it usually works is: YOU quote something I said that you disagree with, and post your reply. Why should I have to repost everything I said? What's the point?
But if that doesn't work for you, lets go with two question:
Do you think big dogs, especially powerful breeds like rottweilers etc., should be muzzled in public?
Do you acknowledge ANY danger from big dogs at all?
I don't think certain breeds should be muzzled in public, I think the owner of the dog should judge it. I do however believe that ALL dogs should be under TOTAL control when in public. This means on leash, except for in desiginated areas and not straining on leash. Granted there are some saps who get a dog for the look, but this is not the dogs fault. Surely you can acknowledge that while the dog may be more dangerous, simply due to size (certainly not temperment), this is down to the owner and THEY should be held accountable. Not the dog itself. I often wonder where the money from dog licences goes. More wardens are needed to ensure people who can't control their dog, does not have a dog. There is no need for an all out ban. If you were chased by 2 terriers, would you consider them dangerous? Do you think all dogs over a certain size should be banned?
Also, I fully understand your anger at these dogs being out unsupervised, but again, this is the owners fault, dont you think?0 -
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And then the neighrbour could sue your for maliciously reporting them to SS for child neglect?abuse or whatever yarn you would spin. The child in the picture on page 3 is my son. You are welcome to PM me and I give you my name and address.
I wasn't referring specifically to that photo. That dog looks like a puppy. I'm sure you could kick it through the window should it ever try and bite your child, and if you are as 'dog-savvy' as you claim to be, I'm sure, once the dog is older, you will take more precautions with it. But regardless, you brought this up again, so you PM me with your address, I'll mention it to SS, and see what they think. Deal?
All the 'knowing' in the world won't pull a dog off somebody. I speak of ALL big, powerful dogs. Not just 'staffies' or 'rotties'. Why should any of them go around in public unmuzzled? Why risk it?I have lived, worked, rescued, showed and judged (all bar bred) APBT for over 25 years. So permit me to be able to KNOW the breed whic you obviously do not.
Not everyone is as 'dog-savvy' as you! You are correct - they would be dead! At least we've established that dogs DO attack...A couple of years back I got badly mauled by the rescue dog which I took into my sanctuary. It netted me lots of stitches and a few days stay in the hospital. It never made the news as it was the adult version of the Andrex pup who attacked me. A less dog savvy person would have been dead.
I've no reason to disbelieve you. But OTHER people have been attacked by them, but not JUST those breeds.I have never been attacked by a bull breed and I often take in Bull Breeds from pounds and know nothing about their past. Yet, these dogs have not shown the slightest aggression towards me, the vets, my volunteers... NOT ONCE!
She wagged her tail..she never growled. SO??A badly injured Staffie was found by me in an housing estate. The wound was days old and infected.
She wagged her tail when the vet injected her with antibiotics.
She also wagged her tail when she woke up from the operation to have the skin stitched back on to her jaw.
She must have been in tremendous pain, yet she never once even growled.
Today she lives happily in North Wales. I made the decision to rehome her to the UK conciously as I didn't want her to be damned to a life time of muzzle as per Restricted Breeds Act.
What are you trying to show me? That these breeds ARE in fact cuddley fuzzy things? I could easily whip out a picture of one on a chain, growling and salivating.Or perhaps you would like to read Glors Story?
http://www.egar.org/memory.htm
Or perhaps Raymonds story?
http://www.thepeoplespuppy.com
Or perhaps you would like to talk to the Nationwide crew from RTE? They spent hours filming here and were amazed how placid and friendly my rescues are.
No thanks. And I don't 'get' people who keep powerful, dangerous dogs. What's the appeal? You like frightening people? What are they FOR?Or perhaps you would like to come and visit and meet them in person?
be my guest!
As with guns, these types of dogs should only be handled by the likes of the police or army.0 -
Haha, you make me laugh. I have wasted enough of my time on you.
Some peeps don't want to get it, maybe it's time you changed your newspaper.
I HAVE experience with the breeds, YOU don't - no contest
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Maybe you should join the Labour Party, you'd be most welcome there
Edited to add:
Obsequium amicus, veritas odium parit0 -
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Ok, let's calm it down then. :cool:helena.ryan wrote: »Look at you getting agressive with me.
I don't think certain breeds should be muzzled in public, I think the owner of the dog should judge it. I do however believe that ALL dogs should be under TOTAL control when in public. This means on leash, except for in desiginated areas and not straining on leash.
If not certain breeds then, what about dogs of a certain size/weight? We cannot always rely on the owner's judgment. That's been proven, hasn't it?
Of course it's not the dog's fault, if it was just doing what it does naturally. They ARE animals after all.Granted there are some saps who get a dog for the look, but this is not the dogs fault. Surely you can acknowledge that while the dog may be more dangerous, simply due to size (certainly not temperment), this is down to the owner and THEY should be held accountable. Not the dog itself.
Once a dog has bitten somebody, it's too late to hold the owner accountable - the damage has been done. That's why they ought to be muzzled. Yes, there are irresponsible owners out there, but we can't give them a lethal injection! The only way to stop potential dog bites on children is to muzzle big, powerful dogs in public. Society will have to reach some sort of compromise. No need to muzzle poodles really, is there? As I said, poodles can be defeated with ease.
But the point is that it only takes a single moment of absent-mindedness. It only takes a misplaced innocent eye poke from a child, or any other number of things to set the conditions for an attack.I often wonder where the money from dog licences goes. More wardens are needed to ensure people who can't control their dog, does not have a dog. There is no need for an all out ban. If you were chased by 2 terriers, would you consider them dangerous? Do you think all dogs over a certain size should be banned?
Yes! But 99 times out of 100, who's to say that the owner was not being a 'responsible' owner? I'm sure most dog owners consider themselves responsible.Also, I fully understand your anger at these dogs being out unsupervised, but again, this is the owners fault, dont you think?0 -
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I have Pm'd you.
Oh, and btw, the dog in the pic is a fully grown 2 yro Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Goes to show how much you know.
If that's the case
1) The dogs that chased me were bigger than that. After I did a google search, I was ALMOST certain they were Staffordshire Bull Terriers. Maybe they are bigger in hindsight.
2) I definitely want to see what SS think about that. Do you mind if I show them the picture?0 -
We can't, which is why I'm saying we need more wardens, to find the people who can't control their dogs.OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »If not certain breeds then, what about dogs of a certain size/weight? We cannot always rely on the owner's judgment. That's been proven, hasn't it?
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Yes, but a smaller dog will be as dangerous to a baby, or toddler, as a larger dog is to you. So an all out ban would not work.OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »
But the point is that it only takes a single moment of absent-mindedness. It only takes a misplaced innocent eye poke from a child, or any other number of things to set the conditions for an attack.
.
No but large fines, etc would go a long way to ensuring people keep control of their dogs.OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »Once a dog has bitten somebody, it's too late to hold the owner accountable - the damage has been done. That's why they ought to be muzzled. Yes, there are irresponsible owners out there, but we can't give them a lethal injection! .OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »No need to muzzle poodles really, is there? As I said, poodles can be defeated with ease.
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Poodle, larger than you think?
It should not be up to the owner, again, more wardens, checking dogs, calling to homes etc, this would not only weed out the irresponsible owners, it would stop backyard breeders, neglected dogs. Very difficult to do, but if it could be done, it would solve so many problems.OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »
Yes! But 99 times out of 100, who's to say that the owner was not being a 'responsible' owner? I'm sure most dog owners consider themselves responsible.
I'm sure owners of large dogs would be happy to comply with muzzles in certain cases, but when people start shouting about bans, then they are not going to entertain it.0 -
OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »Ok, let's calm it down then.....
As I said, poodles can be defeated with ease.
Everyone but you is calm.
You really don't know anything about dogs, do you? This is a standard poodle.
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helena.ryan wrote: »We can't, which is why I'm saying we need more wardens, to find the people who can't control their dogs.
What wrong with muzzles? Wardens will not prevent a dog bite.
Yes, but if we are to reach a compromise, surely we'd go for the bigger ones.Yes, but a smaller dog will be as dangerous to a baby, or toddler, as a larger dog is to you. So an all out ban would not work.
Fines can only do so much. They don't prevent moments of absent-mindedness.No but large fines, etc would go a long way to ensuring people keep control of their dogs.
Big dog! But those jaws don't look anything like as powerful as a rottie's. I would certainly not hesitate to dive in and wrestle with the dog in this picture. Poodle, larger than you think?
In which cases would the owners comply with muzzles? No amount of responsiblilty, short of caging a dog 24/7 can prevent an attack on a child.It should not be up to the owner, again, more wardens, checking dogs, calling to homes etc, this would not only weed out the irresponsible owners, it would stop backyard breeders, neglected dogs. Very difficult to do, but if it could be done, it would solve so many problems.
I'm sure owners of large dogs would be happy to comply with muzzles in certain cases, but when people start shouting about bans, then they are not going to entertain it.
It seems that people here are extremely against the idea of muzzles. It seems that some people would rather make things a bit more comfortable for dogs than make things a bit safer for humans.0 -
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helena.ryan wrote: »No I don't mean to prevent dog bites, I mean to stop people who are not fit to have a dog from having a dog.
Ok, so there you go making assumptions, which is why it's difficult to have a conversation with you.
As for being against muzzles, in certain circumstances, they are needed - and required by law. You were not talking about muzzles, you were talking about bans.
You're ignoring a key part of my argument. Even people who are 'fit' to have dogs, have moments of absent-mindedness. Fines can't prevent that. Muzzles, however, can prevent a dog in public from biting somebody.
I never claimed to be an expert. I've seen enough, though, to know that they can be a serious hazard.EGAR wrote:Again, your comment about the Standard Poodle again goes to show what you know about dogs. Standard Poodles are being trained to be attack dogs and work very successfully as Schutzhund.
Google it if you don't believe me. Soft target indeed....
You are a vet, I assume. A noble profession. I think it's fantastic that there is someone there to treat an animal in need.
BUT
If you treated humans, you may encounter wounds like this:
Or this:
And you may be a BIT more open to the idea of muzzles.0 -
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